? I just don't get why Shoes drops so much on such a tiny dose when others on much higher doses do not

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Shoeskitty-GA

Shoeskitty-GA

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It's like we are stuck in a pattern here. When I drop him down to 0.1 he gradually goes up, then when I increase the dose to 0.25 he starts dropping too fast. When will we find that happy medium that will allow him to surf safely? Or will we ever find it? Again, am strongly considering switching off the Lantus to Pro Zinc.
 
Shoeskitty said:
It's like we are stuck in a pattern here. When I drop him down to 0.1 he gradually goes up, then when I increase the dose to 0.25 he starts dropping too fast. When will we find that happy medium that will allow him to surf safely? Or will we ever find it? Again, am strongly considering switching off the Lantus to Pro Zinc.
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Hey! Lily is exactly the same. No idea what to do with her. Thanks for asking the question!
 
While shoes did do a big drop which can result in bouncing, he is not anywhere near danger. It does seem odd that you are getting that kind of response with so little insulin. Just to make sure, you are using U100 syringes for the Lantus, correct? They have an orange cap.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
While shoes did do a big drop which can result in bouncing, he is not anywhere near danger. It does seem odd that you are getting that kind of response with so little insulin. Just to make sure, you are using U100 syringes for the Lantus, correct? They have an orange cap.
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Yes I am using the correct syringes and am getting the right doses when measuring after hours of practice, a syringe magnifier, lighted magnifying glass and wasted insulin from drawing up and pushing out to make sure before redrawing and injecting the dose.

And I know he had a ways to go to get in the hypo zone but my schedule today did not permit me to continue to watch and test, etc. I had a funeral to go to and because of his drop speed today, I could only go by the funeral home and pay condolences instead of staying for funeral. That's why I am/was so frustrated. I don't know how long one is supposed to keep trying to stay on lantus before realizing that it could be the wrong insulin for them. I know that ECD and am trying to be more patient, but it gets harder each time I go through the same thing multiple times. Thanks for the reply!
 
I hear your frustration and I just wanted to makes sure about the syringes. It is a very frustrating dance for sure. Did Shoes have the same response from Novolin N ? I can tell you with Lantus it took us a few months and then we started having a nice result. One of the characteristic of Lantus is that is usually provides gentler curves than other insulin. Not sure why you are experiencing it differently.

Do you have an automatic feeder? That could come in handy when you have to be gone and can't be there to steer Shoes. Trust me, I understand how confining it is. I have small pockets of time to run out and do errands with Bubba being in lower numbers.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I hear your frustration and I just wanted to makes sure about the syringes. It is a very frustrating dance for sure. Did Shoes have the same response from Novolin N ? I can tell you with Lantus it took us a few months and then we started having a nice result. One of the characteristic of Lantus is that is usually provides gentler curves than other insulin. Not sure why you are experiencing it differently.

Do you have an automatic feeder? That could come in handy when you have to be gone and can't be there to steer Shoes. Trust me, I understand how confining it is. I have small pockets of time to run out and do errands with Bubba being in lower numbers.
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I do have the automatic feeder now that most on here use. He is afraid of it however. I am just letting it sit out in sight for him to get used to. I think that Shoes had big drops on the Novolin N as well as that was what he was on when he crashed on 1/24. I started some testing after that and then he had another small low on 2/24 which I caught just before leaving for work that a.m. He tested 30 on the Relion meter that I was using. I was able to get him back up to 59 in 44 min. and that's when we changed to Lantus. The Novolin was hard on his little body. He seems like he's surfing now at +6 so am going to try for an hour's nap. I can tell you know exactly what I am talking about. If you have some recommendations for some good food with min. 10% carbs in it, I would love to hear them. Thanks again.
 
We use the Fancy Feast CLASSICS turkey and giblet and the chicken feast both of which are around 4% carbs. I am linking the food chart here for you to look at. The carbs are in the 3rd column from the left. Get some sleep.

foodchart
 
The variability may not be how carefully you're measuring the dose. The variability may be the syringes. Many of us switched over to using digital calipers because the way the lines were marked on the syringes was highly variable. I believe Marje noted there could be as much as a half a unit difference between syringes even from the same lot.

The other point I'd like to make is that one month isn't really giving Lantus much of a chance. If nothing else, this is an insulin that will teach you patience. It's very hard to know if Shoes' pancreas may be producing some of its own insulin -- hence the drop in numbers -- or if he's just being a bouncy kitty.

 
I know you're using an Alpha Trak, but Shoes' numbers today were beautiful - not scary at all. It's just that you're not used to his being in the 100s. If you want to get him regulated, or even into remission, you'll need to become comfortable with those numbers. Pretty soon you'll be craving them!!! The longer you can keep him in better numbers, the more time his pancreas has to heal, and the more accustomed his body will become to them, thus reducing the bouncing you are seeing.

I know it's frustrating, but it's so worth it. Hang in there!!
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
The variability may not be how carefully you're measuring the dose. The variability may be the syringes. Many of us switched over to using digital calipers because the way the lines were marked on the syringes was highly variable. I believe Marje noted there could be as much as a half a unit difference between syringes even from the same lot.

The other point I'd like to make is that one month isn't really giving Lantus much of a chance. If nothing else, this is an insulin that will teach you patience. It's very hard to know if Shoes' pancreas may be producing some of its own insulin -- hence the drop in numbers -- or if he's just being a bouncy kitty.
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Tried the calipers, won't work with the BD syringes.
 
Tricia & Cinco & Harvey said:
I know you're using an Alpha Trak, but Shoes' numbers today were beautiful - not scary at all. It's just that you're not used to his being in the 100s. If you want to get him regulated, or even into remission, you'll need to become comfortable with those numbers. Pretty soon you'll be craving them!!! The longer you can keep him in better numbers, the more time his pancreas has to heal, and the more accustomed his body will become to them, thus reducing the bouncing you are seeing.

I know it's frustrating, but it's so worth it. Hang in there!!
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I love the blue numbers! That's where I want him. The problem was that he got there in the low blue too quick! I needed to go to a funeral and was not able to, had to just run into the funeral home and say "I'm sorry for your loss" and leave.
 
I use the calipers with the BD's but I learned something after pulling all my hair out. Turn the barrel until the marks are off to one side and you can't really even see them. NOW look at where the barrel starts - there's a manufacturing line where the plunger stop is. Use the calipers to measure from THAT line. It's much easier for me to do when I don't look at the lines at all - they just confuse me... :)

He's determined to give you fits isn't he....

HUGS! Sending 'be good' thoughts to Shoes...
 
Andy & Pimp said:
Mabye someone can find the BD insulin ruler for you?
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Here it is.
Shoeskitty said:
Is it the same ruler that uses A4 paper? If so I have that and it doesn't work either. The BD syringes are so darned inconsistent in their markings and 0 line.
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Butt the insulin ruler up against the collar of the syringe, and you can ignore all of the markings on the syringe itself (although it's almost spot-on for mine most of the time anyway).
 
There's not just a "reason why" that any of us can give you. Each cat's body is different, and while some things are remarkably consistent from cat to cat, other things are different. All you can do is plow ahead.

I will say that some of the biggest zig-zag type spreadsheets I've seen have been in cats that need dentals done - but even that might not explain Shoe's situation. If you have any hint that he needs a dental, if he has bad breath, if you can see any red inflammation at the gumline or any tartar build-up on his teeth, then you might consider getting a dental done. Often is there is anything visible, there is lots that is uncovered once the cat is under anesthesia. Infections can raise blood sugar and getting an infection resolved can often help get blood sugar under much better control.

By the way, it's good to raise these kind of questions in your regular daily thread. Just edit the subject line and put the topic in, then edit it again when you want to return to your regular subject line. The idea is that all the info on your cat remains attached to his daily thread. There's a little more about this in the "Basics: New to the Group?" yellow sticky. I encourage people to edit their subject line regularly throughout the day - it's your way to communicate with everyone else.

I'd copy the link to this thread and put it in your daily thread for Shoes from today so if you want to go back and find it, you can.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
There's not just a "reason why" that any of us can give you. Each cat's body is different, and while some things are remarkably consistent from cat to cat, other things are different. All you can do is plow ahead.

I will say that some of the biggest zig-zag type spreadsheets I've seen have been in cats that need dentals done - but even that might not explain Shoe's situation. If you have any hint that he needs a dental, if he has bad breath, if you can see any red inflammation at the gumline or any tartar build-up on his teeth, then you might consider getting a dental done. Often is there is anything visible, there is lots that is uncovered once the cat is under anesthesia. Infections can raise blood sugar and getting an infection resolved can often help get blood sugar under much better control.

By the way, it's good to raise these kind of questions in your regular daily thread. Just edit the subject line and put the topic in, then edit it again when you want to return to your regular subject line. The idea is that all the info on your cat remains attached to his daily thread. There's a little more about this in the "Basics: New to the Group?" yellow sticky. I encourage people to edit their subject line regularly throughout the day - it's your way to communicate with everyone else.

I'd copy the link to this thread and put it in your daily thread for Shoes from today so if you want to go back and find it, you can.
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I can't see any inflammation in the gum line and the vet checks his mouth when we go in but that doesn't mean he doesn't need it. When I smell his breath, it just smells like whatever he ate in the most recent meal. Thanks.
 
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