Tired of Dealing with Veterinarians

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Michaellh33

Michaellh33

Member Since 2015
So I am about to take my cat and have a dental performed on him but I already have bad vibes about the vet. He seems insistent on prescribing him on a "prescription" diet of Purina DM, which cost over $50 for a case, he wants to run a fructosamine test on his blood they collected to gauge his glucose levels over the past 2 weeks even though I have that data on my spread sheet. When i just talked to him on the phone he said he was just going to go ahead and do it even though I told him I had the data. He didn't mention a charge but I am sure I will get charged for it.

I feel like I get taken to the cleaners when ever I go to the vet (or the doctor for that matter) for things he might not need. Does this sound reasonable or does it just sound like a money grab? They did say they did not detect any glucose in his urine even though he has been pretty high lately. What does this mean?
 
I guess I'd say that if they're insistent on doing the fructosamine test I'd tell them to go ahead as long as there's no charge for it. You have all of the data, that should be good. Im lucky my vet is really good about helping me save some money.
 
Anitafrnhamer said:
I agree. I would just tell them you run a spreadsheet and update daily and if the vet wants to gift you with a fructosamine then that's what it is a gift. As for the DM, I wouldn't accept that recommendation. Your cat, your cash, your choice.
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I told him and he even asked for a copy of it so I sent it to him today so we will see what he says. They may have already charged me for it. Given I am strapped for cash and it seems like the classic pate is very similar in ingredients I don't think it is worth it.
 
I'd be finding myself another doctor. YOU hired him to perform a certain service for you. In a way, he works for you. If he wants to do extra things that you haven't asked him to do, make it very clear that you aren't planning on paying the bill for it. That'd be like restaurant staff bringing me out a dish that they really enjoyed personally and highly recommended, but that I didn't order. Or a lawn service guy going above and beyond by doing things I never asked him to do. In that case, it's a gift, and I'm not paying for something I didn't ask for.
 
We have a good vet now who even gave us a lot of freebies when treating Whitey's recent DKA (of course we gave them over $600). But we have had some others who tried to upsell and put pressure on us. The first hospital we took Whitey too basically told us we had to commit to $6000 in tests and treatment or put him to sleep on the spot. We had to really push back but had them do the bare minimum to keep him alive for the night and took him to another hospital that had zero pressure and charged 50% of the first for the same treatment. But I think vets are no different than human doctors. Some bad, some good, some great , some so so. But don't pay for things that you know you don't need. You don't need DM food and you don't need glucose panels when you have the data
 
ja9390 said:
I'd be finding myself another doctor. YOU hired him to perform a certain service for you. In a way, he works for you. If he wants to do extra things that you haven't asked him to do, make it very clear that you aren't planning on paying the bill for it. That'd be like restaurant staff bringing me out a dish that they really enjoyed personally and highly recommended, but that I didn't order. Or a lawn service guy going above and beyond by doing things I never asked him to do. In that case, it's a gift, and I'm not paying for something I didn't ask for.
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good analogy!!
 
Well we will see if they charge me for it. He said "I will just go ahead and do it." or something like that so maybe he won't charge me for it....Given my past experiences with vets I really doubt it. Also given that he was trying to first get me on a Hill's diet and gave me the DM as a secondary makes me doubtful of his good intent.
 
What about the glucose not showing up in Brody's urine. He said it should given how high his numbers are. What could this mean?
 
Glucose will only show up if Brody's numbers are above renal threshold...and that number varies from cat to cat (and also from reference to reference depending on where you look)

It can be anywhere between about 160 and 280 ....when Brody was at the vet, it's totally possible that he just wasn't above renal threshold
 
Every time they "suggest" bags of food like Science Diet, they get so pushy because they want that commission they make off of the sales. Anyone who took entry-level biology and can read a nutrition label should know that dry foods just don't work for diabetic pets. He knows better. My vet generically told me to shop around and find a food that is "low carbs, high protein". She did mention that the office can order bags of science diet at wholesale price if I wanted to go that route, but I declined and I never heard anything from anyone about it again. I would assume he wouldn't charge you for the test if he worded it like that but if he does, do not pay it and seek a new vet! The relationship between a doctor and a patient should be more like a good working relationship. The second the doctor begins to act authoritative, that's a red flag. Ultimately it's your cat and your money and you should be 100% trusting of the person who is managing your pet's chronic illness. Don't let him use his degree to intimidate you into agreeing to services you know you don't need. This is about your cat's well-being, not his sales.
 
Chris & China said:
Glucose will only show up if Brody's numbers are above renal threshold...and that number varies from cat to cat (and also from reference to reference depending on where you look)

It can be anywhere between about 160 and 280 ....when Brody was at the vet, it's totally possible that he just wasn't above renal threshold
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They said they tested his glucose level there and it was 308. He also claimed the normal range for cats now days is between 150-250. That seemed a bit high to me.

ja9390 said:
Every time they "suggest" bags of food like Science Diet, they get so pushy because they want that commission they make off of the sales. Anyone who took entry-level biology and can read a nutrition label should know that dry foods just don't work for diabetic pets. He knows better. My vet generically told me to shop around and find a food that is "low carbs, high protein". She did mention that the office can order bags of science diet at wholesale price if I wanted to go that route, but I declined and I never heard anything from anyone about it again. I would assume he wouldn't charge you for the test if he worded it like that but if he does, do not pay it and seek a new vet! The relationship between a doctor and a patient should be more like a good working relationship. The second the doctor begins to act authoritative, that's a red flag. Ultimately it's your cat and your money and you should be 100% trusting of the person who is managing your pet's chronic illness. Don't let him use his degree to intimidate you into agreeing to services you know you don't need. This is about your cat's well-being, not his sales.
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Well initially I wasn't sure if he was talking about dry food, I specifically stated that I only feed them canned food so that may be why he recommended the canned food.

The veterinarian hospital I took Brody to is actually a university hospital. If I am not mistaken it is quite well know but the head vet that inspected Brody is an old phd/professor to graduate students. It is Auburn University Small Animal Hospital
 
There is a teaching animal hospital here in town that is like that as well. Really well known and highly rated but like anything else there are great and not so great professionals working in the same building
 
Michaellh33 said:
They said they tested his glucose level there and it was 308. He also claimed the normal range for cats now days is between 150-250. That seemed a bit high to me.
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Remember though...urine takes time to develop and then it's stored in the bladder for what can be many hours before it's eliminated...you're seeing a "snapshot" of where he's been for the last several hours. Also, his BG was probably higher than he'd been at home due to vet stress
 
Send the vet an email stating that you do not consider a fructosamine test to be of any value given that you regularly monitor your kitty's BG at home. Also state that, should the vet insist on running it anyway, your understanding is that all costs associated with the test will be borne by the vet, not you, and that you will not be billed for it.


Mogs
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Michaellh33 said:
They said they tested his glucose level there and it was 308. He also claimed the normal range for cats now days is between 150-250. That seemed a bit high to me.


The veterinarian hospital I took Brody to is actually a university hospital. If I am not mistaken it is quite well know but the head vet that inspected Brody is an old phd/professor to graduate students. It is Auburn University Small Animal Hospital
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A recent conversation with my vet(s) sounded pretty much the same. They had just attended a conference on FD and said that quite a bit of new research is being done due to the volume of FD diagnoses. Apparently it's been found that most cats don't develop any problems with what used to considered higher numbers and that 250 is now considered the high end of normal and that cats seem to be handling the higher numbers better than they used to. Something to that effect anyway, I'm not exactly positive of the wording. Maybe it's a natural evolution thing? :cat:
 
I doubt it is a good type of evolution given humans generally feed cats terrible food lol.

I will find out tomorrow if they charged me hopefully.
 
OK. I'm going to play devils advocate here.

The vet may require the fructosamine test. He going to be giving anesthesia for the dental and he may need the test to keep your cat safe. If this is not your regular vet, he doesn't really know how you are testing and he may not trust the accuracy of your tests. I'm not saying the vet is right to insist on it, but if your cat were to have problems during the dental, you could report him to the state board for not doing due diligence. It may be necessary for his own protection. (For an analogy, if you're diabetic and having an operation, they will test your bg along with everything else before surgery, even if you have data from home tests.)

As for the food, just say no.
 
Michaellh33 said:
They said they tested his glucose level there and it was 308. He also claimed the normal range for cats now days is between 150-250. That seemed a bit high to me.



Well initially I wasn't sure if he was talking about dry food, I specifically stated that I only feed them canned food so that may be why he recommended the canned food.

The veterinarian hospital I took Brody to is actually a university hospital. If I am not mistaken it is quite well know but the head vet that inspected Brody is an old phd/professor to graduate students. It is Auburn University Small Animal Hospital
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The normal range for a cat on a human meter is 50-120. If he's using a pet meter, it's 70-150, I think (it's been a while since I used an alphatrak)? 150-250 is above the normal range for a cat on either meter. Vets try to keep cats under 250 because that is typically where their renal threshold lies (the point where their kidneys start spilling glucose into their urine), and where most of the damage done by diabetes begins. Numbers under 250 would be considering ok regulation, but not good regulation, where you aim to keep numbers closer to the normal range. I think most of their patients don't put in the effort in home testing to safely get their cat's BG under good control, and without home testing shooting for the higher numbers is less likely to cause a hypoglycemic incident. However, you are testing enough to safely do tight regulation, so he shouldn't be encouraging you to go backwards.

Have you told your vet that you're currently doing tight regulation with your cat, and that you want to continue to do tight regulation? If so, you can print out or email him the article (attached below) that talks about what glucose ranges you should be aiming for with your dosing.

Debby does have a very good point, but if you've shown your vet your spreadsheet and explain to him what type of meter you're using, then he should be able to recognize that you're providing better data for him than a fructosamine does. Bandit has been diabetic for 7 years, and has seen 4 different vets since his diagnosis for various reasons, and he's never once had a fructosamine, despite the insistence of a new or emergency vet. None of his vets have continued to ask for a fructosamine after seeing his spreadsheet, including his current vet at Cornell.
 

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Well Brody is still really high unfortunately but I do appreciate all of the advice. I guess they did it anyways and didn't charge me since they never called. I am not sure. I take him on Wednesday of next week for his dental...hopefully no extractions.
 
I think if you have another vet in the area who is willing to work with you, and it's not a hardship to get to them...find another vet other than one with a God complex.

Everyone, what is the BG level that appears to make your kitties feel 'good'. At what BG do they start to play, get curious and want to look around and do stuff?

For Dottie, I have noticed that she gets 'frisky' when her BG is at almost inevitably 235. Any lower, she sleeps. Any higher, she sleeps. In fact, when her BG gets down to the 80-120 range, I find it hard to rouse her. She behaves as if she's in the first stage of HYPO..she gets a twitch on her flank and a kind of dazed look that alerts me to 'where she is' in the BG department.

And yes, I've checked my meter. It's fine. So..I know kitties like to sleep about 16 hours out of a day...but if I want a cat who doesn't sleep 20-22 out of 24 hours a day..wouldn't it be better to keep her in the low 200 range, so she can look out the window at the birds, or play with Gizmo? Or do I want her BG to be lower, and have a kitty doorstop who looks pretty but doesn't have much of a life? This is beginning to feel to me very much like an individual cat 'setpoint'.
 
When it kicks in. Her alertness is immediately noticeable . I ckeck her BG and boom, there is her "magic number". She actually reminds me of me, when my pain meds kick in. She has a "Let's do this" brightness. Then as time goes on and she slides towards lower numbers she will slow down.
 
Jeanne & Dottie said:
When it kicks in. Her alertness is immediately noticeable . I ckeck her BG and boom, there is her "magic number". She actually reminds me of me, when my pain meds kick in. She has a "Let's do this" brightness. Then as time goes on and she slides towards lower numbers she will slow down.
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Thanks for the info, Jeanne. Rather than a threadjack here, perhaps you might kick off a new thread about this to see whether members might be able to suggest something that might help Dottie feel good more of the time.


Mogs
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ja9390 said:
Anyone who took entry-level biology and can read a nutrition label should know that dry foods just don't work for diabetic pets.
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Getting my cat off dry food made a huge difference. And the wet food he gets is Special Kitty (the pate varieties) that I buy at WalMart. Three flavors are even 22oz cans for $1 and still low carb.

Now if I can only get my catsickels to work (just started this and have no idea what sizes to make the cubes, etc,).
 
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