Peeing and Hissing

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Jeremy W

Jeremy W

Member Since 2016
Our 12 year old cat, Rufus, was diagnosed with diabetes about 1 month ago, and we began treatment by giving him 1 unit of insulin twice a day about 3 weeks ago. After two weeks, we took him back for a glucose curve and his dosage was increased to 2 units twice a day. However after the increase, Rufus has been misbehaving.

Along with the insulin shots, we changed him from a "grazing dry food" diet to a twice a day 1 can a day wet food diet. The transition hasn't been the quietest. He has been spending most of his days in the kitchen where we feed him meowing and begging for food.

After the increase in insulin, we have caught Rufus peeing on items every other day almost. He has done it all over the house, and does it right in front of us some of the time. Along with this, while he is peeing or directly afterwards, he hisses and walks off. After that though, he is back to his normal carefree self.

He has been using the litter box and is not in pain while using it. He usually does this an hour before we feed him. He is neutered, has never been territorial, and does not seem stressed. We have begun feeding him more food to see if that is why he is misbehaving.

We were wondering if there are any additional steps we could take to prevent this behavior, or what the cause might be. Thank you.
 
Andy & Pimp said:
Hi Jeremy
What kind of insulin are you using, and are you home testing? If not home testing, do you know any readings from the vet? My first thought is hypoglycemic episode. When is it happening in relationship to the insulin shots?

How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL!
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We are using Prozinc insulin. We are not doing any home testing on him, and I don't know the latest reading from the vet. When he does the peeing and hissing, it is 30 minutes to an hour before we feed him and give him his evening insulin dosage. That is when we usually come in the house as well after work. He does not any of the other symptoms from the link you gave other then the hunger, which doesn't seem so sudden or ravenous.
 
If it's 30 minutes before injection (we would call that +11.5) it's probably not hypo-related. Peeing randomly like that could be considered loss of body control and/or confusion, and hissing would be aggression. Any which way you look at it, they're all behavioral changes, which is a symptom. That was the first thing on my mind because of the increased dose.

@MrWorfMen's Mom
@Critter Mom

Any ideas for Jeremy?
 
I agree with @Andy & Pimp .... home testing is crucial .... also going from free feeding to 2x a day is a huge change and can cause BG changes which again can be sugar dropping which you will only know with testing. If you plan to continue with 2x a day with 1 can I personally would change it up to something like 1/2 a can 4x a day or even 1/3 a can 6x a day...
I used pro zinc and for us it lasted about 8-9 hours (it is labeled to last much longer) But what it also did was drop my kitty very low for about a hour and pop right back up. This was beyond a bounce -it was consistent the entire time we used it. Some people do have great success with it.
A full unit increase is a large increase --it is recommended .25 unit increase at a time when warranted. I hate to press the home testing but it is the best way to not only keep your cat safe but to find out if a increase or decrease is what is needed for regulation which is when the complications of diabetes can happen....my 2 cents.
 
1 more thing.... many cats with FD do well with free feeding-many knowledgable people on this site can help you with that-my guy gets his low carb wet 4x a day but he has dry 0 carb freeze dried chicken or salmon out at all times. Eating small frequent meals is beneficial to most diabetic cats (and humans)
 
I want to chime in that home testing for BG has saved both my kitties lives this last week. If it wasn't for the testing I don't think my Woody would be with us.

On the peeing, has he been checked for a UTI? My Buzz always peed on things. Never hissed but.....
 
Welcome to FDMB.

This is a different situation to any I have encountered in my time here. I am still thinking low blood sugars may be an issue. If Rufus is experiencing any really low periods during the day, it's quite possible he is acting out trying to get your attention to tell you something is wrong. Now this of course is just conjecture on my part and without home testing you don't have a clue. A 1u increase based on numbers obtained at the vet's office is not safe. Our cats often have readings 100 points or more higher at the vet than they are at home so often folks end up here with problems related to overdosing. The change from kibble to all canned can also dramatically lower a cat's glucose, so without testing, you're working blindly to get Rufus regulated. Unregulated cats are always hungry but so are cats that are experiencing low glucose.

Feeding a cat that has grazed all his life to two feedings a day may also be an issue for him. I'd leave him some food out during the day to give him something to quell those mid day hunger pangs. You can either get an automated feeder or just freeze some canned food in an ice cube tray and leave some frozen food out that will thaw as the day goes on and he can nibble at will.

I agree with Jayla. You need to start home testing to get to the bottom of this stressful problem and get you and Rufus onto a better path. We can help you learn how to test Rufus and if per chance your vet didn't mention it or was against it, don't fret. What you do at home is your business and you obviously want to keep Rufus safe and make this problem go away.

I'd go back to 1u twice per day immediately because if he is going really low, one episode could be catastrophic. Start home testing and then we can see how Rufus is reacting to the insulin and help you get things sorted out.

How much does Rufus weigh? What/how much are you feeding him now? Diabetic cats are essentially starving because their bodies can't use the food they consume effectively. This is a puzzle that has to be dealt with step by step and right now, there are a lot of unknowns in his puzzle that need to be figured out. The most important of these in my mind is to see how he is reacting to the insulin and that means home testing.

If you are in the US, many folks use one of the Relion meters from Walmart. If you are located elsewhere, let us know and we'll help you find something suitable. Most folks here use human glucometers and all the reference numbers in the documentation on this board is based on human meter readings unless specified otherwise. Here is a link to the home testing information on this board.

The folks here have amassed an unbelievable amount of hands on experience so don't despair. We can help you but right now I really think home testing should be your priority.
 
Hi and welcome! How is Rufus today?

I agree with all the info and ideas regarding his BG and home testing. Home testing really is crucial to keeping your kitty safe and healthy. As for the peeing and hissing, I would have him checked for UTI or possibly crystals - anything affecting the urinary tract. The hissing sounds to me like he may be in pain and cats with urinary issues do frequently pee outside the box.
 
You can also just leave out the wet food. Yes it does dry out a bit. Ferndoc has been switched from a dry food grazer to a wet food grazer. I just leave the wet food out for until it is replace or for 10 of the 12 hours if I'm awake/home to keep food away from him during the last 2 hours. I also have 2 other cats, I think one of them actually likes dried out wet food.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
... it's quite possible he is acting out trying to get your attention to tell you something is wrong.
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I support this view.

The jump to 2 units is a big hike in dosage and because the BG readings upon which the dosing decision was based may have been elevated by vet/travel stress it increases the risk that the 2 units may be too high.

It is possible that you might have very low numbers and/or very high numbers as a consequence. Both can affect toileting behaviour. As others have recommended, home testing is the only realistic way to determine whether the inappropriate urination is being driven by problems with blood glucose levels.



Mogs
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Jeremy W said:
Our 12 year old cat, Rufus, was diagnosed with diabetes about 1 month ago, and we began treatment by giving him 1 unit of insulin twice a day about 3 weeks ago. After two weeks, we took him back for a glucose curve and his dosage was increased to 2 units twice a day. However after the increase, Rufus has been misbehaving.

Along with the insulin shots, we changed him from a "grazing dry food" diet to a twice a day 1 can a day wet food diet. The transition hasn't been the quietest. He has been spending most of his days in the kitchen where we feed him meowing and begging for food.

After the increase in insulin, we have caught Rufus peeing on items every other day almost. He has done it all over the house, and does it right in front of us some of the time. Along with this, while he is peeing or directly afterwards, he hisses and walks off. After that though, he is back to his normal carefree self.

He has been using the litter box and is not in pain while using it. He usually does this an hour before we feed him. He is neutered, has never been territorial, and does not seem stressed. We have begun feeding him more food to see if that is why he is misbehaving.

We were wondering if there are any additional steps we could take to prevent this behavior, or what the cause might be. Thank you.
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Maybe he is letting you know he isn't happy about the food changes.i have had my cats get really mad at me which isn't often and pee or poo on my bed which is out of the ordinary and not talk to me for hours or all day or it could be something else entirely like reaction to the insulin like allergy wise?
 
I see a few things that are problematic here. First, the dose was raised from 1u to 2u based of a vet curve at the office. It has been proven that many (if not most) cats have higher than normal blood sugar at the vet's office due to stress, which is why the current diabetes treatment guidelines strongly encourage home testing to determine dose, and not in office curves.

Second, removing the dry food from a diabetic cat's diet can cause blood glucose levels to drop 100-300 points. A number of cats (about 20-25%), will go into remission from the diet change alone. So it is very important that you confirm his insulin dose with home testing, especially after changing his diet. Cats that are chroncially overdosed on insulin will show consistently high numbers at the vet's office because of the combination of stress hyperglycemia and rebound hyperglycemia.

Third, the fact that his behavior changed around the same time his diet changed and insulin dose was changed is (in my opinion) a huge warning sign of hypoglycemia. Cats don't typically show symptoms until the hypoglycemic incident is severe enough to be life threatening. With chronic overdose hypo/hyperglycemia, the cat will bounce around from very low numbers, to very high numbers for weeks or months, because their liver will dump glucose into the bloodstream to combat the low blood sugar. This continues until their livers finally can't compensate for the low blood sugar anymore, and they crash. I would strongly urge you to run to the store and pick up a glucose meter--Walmart has several that are inexpensive and easy to use. There's a ton of information here that can help you learn how to home test, and the members of this forum can help guide you along!

Bandit and I are fortunate that his former and current vet are very strong advocates of home testing, and I wasn't even given an option to do office curves with them. I didn't realize that not all vets were on the same page with this until I started posting in this forum. We've had great success with treating his diabetes for the past 7 years (and he's only needed insulin for less than 2 of those years), so following the current treatment guidelines with diet, insulin, and home testing are incredibly important and helpful. It looks like you're on your way with 2 of the 3, so you just need that final step to safely and effectively treat his diabetes. :)
 
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Thank you for all for your comments and suggestions. I am planning on buying a glucose meter for him this weekend. I have also begun giving him some dry food on my lunch break to see if that helps. The insulin increase was decided on by our vet and I do not feel comfortable about adjusting it yet. I am taking him in for another glucose curve in 2 weeks.

I don't believe the issue is UTI related, as I pretty much live in the room beside the litter box and he uses it without being in pain. He usually hisses at us if we are approaching and near him when he pees, like it is more out of anger/spite then pain (I looked online and cats apparently don't feel spite). We will just see tomorrow if the extra food will help, and hopefully the BG testing would shine some light on it as well.
 
Jeremy W said:
Thank you for all for your comments and suggestions. I am planning on buying a glucose meter for him this weekend. I have also begun giving him some dry food on my lunch break to see if that helps. The insulin increase was decided on by our vet and I do not feel comfortable about adjusting it yet. I am taking him in for another glucose curve in 2 weeks.

I don't believe the issue is UTI related, as I pretty much live in the room beside the litter box and he uses it without being in pain. He usually hisses at us if we are approaching and near him when he pees, like it is more out of anger/spite then pain (I looked online and cats apparently don't feel spite). We will just see tomorrow if the extra food will help, and hopefully the BG testing would shine some light on it as well.
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Hi Jeremy,
I think you have good reason to hesitate before increasing a full unit--and awesome that you are going to home test!! I know this is tons to take in but it does get easier and there are people who are skilled enough to help you with dosing and most of them have much more experience than the vets as vets do not treat enough diabetic cats or if they do they basically keep them "contained" in truth a early diagnosis can go into remission and often does especially with right regulation --
your doing awesome Rufus is a lucky guy :cat: please keep asking questions as you continue on this journey, everyone here is very generous with knowledge and experience....:)
 
While you work on blood glucose testing, see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some additional assessments you may find helpful.
 
Jeremy W said:
Thank you for all for your comments and suggestions. I am planning on buying a glucose meter for him this weekend. I have also begun giving him some dry food on my lunch break to see if that helps. The insulin increase was decided on by our vet and I do not feel comfortable about adjusting it yet. I am taking him in for another glucose curve in 2 weeks.

I don't believe the issue is UTI related, as I pretty much live in the room beside the litter box and he uses it without being in pain. He usually hisses at us if we are approaching and near him when he pees, like it is more out of anger/spite then pain (I looked online and cats apparently don't feel spite). We will just see tomorrow if the extra food will help, and hopefully the BG testing would shine some light on it as well.
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I have read that too that some vets think cats don't get angry or jealous or do something out of spite but I know from experience that they do and I'm sure others will agree.my civie had a big bout of depression for almost a year and gained so much weight but I was able to bring her out of the depression thank goodness.she was missing my daughter so much she slipped into depression.broke my heart watching her during that whole time and tried everything to make her feel better.my ex use to be jealous of my cats and would terrorize them and I would watch them at night attack him while he slept every night.push stuff off dresser which their hands on his head,jump on his stomach and run like hell and scratch his feet up if they hung out the bottom of sheets etc.it was so funny he deserved every bit of it too.minute he feel asleep it was revenge time for them.lol.i don't understand why they think cats don't have certain feelings or do certain things?cats are super smart.
 
Jeremy W said:
Our 12 year old cat, Rufus, was diagnosed with diabetes about 1 month ago, and we began treatment by giving him 1 unit of insulin twice a day about 3 weeks ago. After two weeks, we took him back for a glucose curve and his dosage was increased to 2 units twice a day. However after the increase, Rufus has been misbehaving.

Along with the insulin shots, we changed him from a "grazing dry food" diet to a twice a day 1 can a day wet food diet. The transition hasn't been the quietest. He has been spending most of his days in the kitchen where we feed him meowing and begging for food.

After the increase in insulin, we have caught Rufus peeing on items every other day almost. He has done it all over the house, and does it right in front of us some of the time. Along with this, while he is peeing or directly afterwards, he hisses and walks off. After that though, he is back to his normal carefree self.

He has been using the litter box and is not in pain while using it. He usually does this an hour before we feed him. He is neutered, has never been territorial, and does not seem stressed. We have begun feeding him more food to see if that is why he is misbehaving.

We were wondering if there are any additional steps we could take to prevent this behavior, or what the cause might be. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Just thought of signs of depression issues is not eating,urinating out of catbox,aggression to owner,anxiety,and other issues.he could be having some depressive problems due to not feeling well from the diabetes and maybe will clear up once diabetes get under control?or it could be insulin related I'm just thinking outside the box.i about gave up and had my civie put on antidepressants but I finally was able to get her out of it.
 
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