Murphy again too low to shoot (or should I)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Carol & Murphy (GA)

Carol & Murphy (GA)

Very Active Member
@Sue and Oliver (GA) @Rachel @Merlin and others- so- I am again facing the situation where Murphy's pmps is too low to shoot - it was 184 then I stalled for 30 minutes and it dropped to 140 - I know tomorrow am it will be >400 maybe even >500 but what can I do tonight - nothing is consistent with him - right now it seems like I should go to the 11/13 (I will do tomorrow) but I can never be sure, when I test, what I am going got get . I am somewhat tempted to give him a small dose in a little while, but probably it's not safe.
 
That's a tough one, Carol. With that big of a drop, I hate to suggest giving anything. But I also hate to suggest nothing...have you fed Murphy yet or are you going to try to stall again to see if the number is rising?
 
I had to feed him - he couldn't wait for another hour I KNOW he will go sky high in just a little while, but can never be 100% sure
 
I understand. Well, hmmm. I supposed you could give a token dose if you are willing to watch him very close and be sure that he isn't dropping too low...and steer him with food if he is. Or you could skip and just try to regain momentum tomorrow.

What's your thoughts?
 
I hate to suggest this, but you might try chasing the number. So feed him now, wait 2 hours and test. If he is above your target, shoot a dose. Tomorrow you could look at his numbers at the regular time and see where he is. You can shoot at +11 if he is sure rising or wait till after 12 hours and see if he is high enough. It is not a 12/12 schedule and a little nerve wracking, but might give him lower flatter numbers?
 
Carol & Murphy said:
@Sue and Oliver (GA) @Rachel @Merlin and others- so- I am again facing the situation where Murphy's pmps is too low to shoot - it was 184 then I stalled for 30 minutes and it dropped to 140 - I know tomorrow am it will be >400 maybe even >500 but what can I do tonight - nothing is consistent with him - right now it seems like I should go to the 11/13 (I will do tomorrow) but I can never be sure, when I test, what I am going got get . I am somewhat tempted to give him a small dose in a little while, but probably it's not safe.
Click to expand...
Oh Carol, he really has you dancing. Hope you get a good result if you try Sue's suggestion.
 
I would really like to give him something but at this point i don't know what my target number is, nor do I know what dose I would shoot
 
I like Sue's suggestion. Test him two hours from the time he ate, see what you get.
 
He still hasn't eaten that much of his Young Again I think he has enough going on GI wise - I need to get him in good enough shape for me to get away this weekend - I will get a test before I go to bed, but I am not sure I will give him insulin - I'd rather get up extra early tomorrow morning and start again with an 11/13 schedule (unless his sugar is sky high - which it may well be) Say his sugar is >400 - do you think I could give him a token dose of say 0.5?
 
Last edited:
I would just skip till morning if your plan is to get up early.
 
Good plan. At least your sleep can be stress free and uninterrupted. :-)
 
I think he was feeling poorly most of the day, but I ended up giving him a Cerenia and an appetite stimulant - he's hungry now but he has to wait 1 1/2 more hours he also has s vet appointment tomorrow morning I was really sweating the 78 reading as he won't eat the Young Again (he develops food aversions to whatever food he is eating at the time he gets sick) I ended up giving him some Purina DM (high carb diabetic prescription diet) - I'm hoping with the appetite stimulant, he'll be hungry enough to eat the Young Again (I get the Evo and Epigen 90 tomorrow) How was Colin's day?
 
I'm glad he's feeling better. I guess that would be scary to have them going low and not wanting to eat.

Colin is bouncing today, I guess. His last reading @+7.5 was 398. He seems to feel fine though. His Natures Variety Duck canned food came today. It's pretty expensive so I don't know how often he'll get it, but it's only 1carb and fairly low phosphorus.

What is the carb count on the Epigen? I heard it was pretty low, and when I looked it up the price wasn't as bad as some foods. I'm still trying to find an affordable dry that my civies will eat that is low carb in case Colin gets some. Right now I'm giving them Natures Variety Chicken, but some of them don't care for it. It's 12 carbs.
 
Hi Sharon I think the carb content of the epicene 90 is low - at least I read it was acceptable - here is a very weird thread where Wysong discusses carb content - I think they are saying that since it contains organ meats, there is no way to know how much carb is in the meat http://www.wysong.net/pet-health-and-nutrition/?qanda=carbohydrates&cat=cat13 In any case, since he develops food aversions every time he has a flare of whatever he has, I really need to have a variety of foods on hand for him to eat
sorry Colin is bouncing - it's still great news about his yellows and blues I am going to be looking for some new novel protein canned food to try with Murphy in a few weeks - what made you choose Natures Variety Duck ?
 
I got the Natures Variety Duck because it's very low carb and fairly low Phos. I am trying to find some affordable low Phos foods for Colin because I worry about his kidneys since he's been uncontrolled for so long with no end in sight! Also I was able to get some cans at Petsmart to try it out before ordering a case. It doesn't have carrageenan either, which is good. So far he likes it, but at this point he'll eat whatever input in front of him. Thanks for that link, I'll check it out.
 
Hey Carol, so sorry Murphy isn't feeling well. In spite, he managed to pull off some greens. I can imagine that it is scary when they go low and they aren't eating well. Hope it resolves soon. Murphy must have had a talk with Bubba because he is hissing at me now when I test....... he's so tired. We both are.
 
Hi Bobbie, I'm so sorry Bubba isn't cooperating. This sugar dance is hard enough, we don't need more complications! I see on your spreadsheet that Bubba had some BBQ. Yum! Hope it doesn't mess with his BG's though. When will you decide if you should use the N? I had wondered about that for Colin too. He goes so high after eating that the Lev can't pull him down.(at least I wondered if that was what was going on)
 
Sharon14 said:
Hi Bobbie, I'm so sorry Bubba isn't cooperating. This sugar dance is hard enough, we don't need more complications! I see on your spreadsheet that Bubba had some BBQ. Yum! Hope it doesn't mess with his BG's though. When will you decide if you should use the N? I had wondered about that for Colin too. He goes so high after eating that the Lev can't pull him down.(at least I wondered if that was what was going on)
Click to expand...
I don't know when. I am going to have Jill and Alex guide me. I need to go pick some up to have so when it's right to do, I will have it. Maybe that would be a good option for you and Colin too. Jill might be a good person to talk to and get her guidance. I don't know exactly how to do it but I am sure I can learn.
 
Bobbie - I am so sorry that Bubba is starting to act up during testing time - Murphy hisses, growls, swats, and as we know, can really sink in his teeth if he wants. I sincerely hope Bubba never bites you It has made testing time highly stressful for me - although I noticed today when he wasn't feeling well, he was quite passive during testing.
Bobbie - I think your progress and possible intervention is very exciting and Sharon, it may be something to keep in mind. It doesn't sound like it is done very frequently though

Murphy has a vet appt tomorrow morning - Sharon - doesn't Colin have one as well? It was anxiety provoking when I realized he was going low earlier and I had no way to steer him except the prescrption DM food (only thing he would eat) - I think that is why his pmps was a little high tonight (that plus I was using an 11/13 cycle) I don't know if I can get up tomorrow at 5 am though - I am not a morning person by nature
 
Yes Colin has an appointment tomorrow afternoon. I hate getting up in the AM, but horses and cats need to be fed and all the other things I need to do before I leave for the day, so up at 5:blackeye: Before Colin's DX, it wasn't so hard, just dump the dry food and go...
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Bobbie - I am so sorry that Bubba is starting to act up during testing time - Murphy hisses, growls, swats, and as we know, can really sink in his teeth if he wants. I sincerely hope Bubba never bites you It has made testing time highly stressful for me - although I noticed today when he wasn't feeling well, he was quite passive during testing.
Bobbie - I think your progress and possible intervention is very exciting and Sharon, it may be something to keep in mind. It doesn't sound like it is done very frequently though

Murphy has a vet appt tomorrow morning - Sharon - doesn't Colin have one as well? It was anxiety provoking when I realized he was going low earlier and I had no way to steer him except the prescrption DM food (only thing he would eat) - I think that is why his pmps was a little high tonight (that plus I was using an 11/13 cycle) I don't know if I can get up tomorrow at 5 am though - I am not a morning person by nature
Click to expand...
I can only imagine how stressful it is to think that you are going to get a bite. My stress lately has been wasted ketones strips when he jerks and I don't get enough blood or too much blood and get an error. Those suckers are 3 bucks a pop and last night I went through 4 of them.

Yes, the possible intervention is exciting and hopefully we can break through the glass floor of his resistance. Maybe for Colin and Sharon too. Good luck to both Murphy and @Sharon14 too at the vets.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I can only imagine how stressful it is to think that you are going to get a bite. My stress lately has been wasted ketones strips when he jerks and I don't get enough blood or too much blood and get an error. Those suckers are 3 bucks a pop and last night I went through 4 of them.

Yes, the possible intervention is exciting and hopefully we can break through the glass floor of his resistance. Maybe for Colin and Sharon too. Good luck to both Murphy and @Sharon14 too at the vets.
Click to expand...
I am very familiar with wasting strips - sometimes I have no idea why I am not getting a reading
Does anyone know where Cindi (@Merlin) or Robin (@Robin&BB ) have been? Hope all is okay
 
I'm not sure where they are at! Hope they'll check in and let us know everything is okay.
 
Murphy's vet appt - he was a bit dehydrated so he got some fluids - did full blood and urine work up - she feels he may have some component of on and off pancreatitis and for some reason, the canned food precipitates it - be it the fat content. maybe after the stabilizes I'll look for some low fat and carb canned food. He won't eat the Young Again at all - luckily I found a local store that sells Evo, and I should get the Wysong Epigen 90 today sometime. So we'll try that for a while. His +6 was over 400 - not sure if this is result of vet visit (several hours earlier) or the little bit of the Royal Canin glycobalance I gave him earlier. I'm going to try to slightly lower his dose, if possible. Of course, with new food, I guess we're starting over
I am still planning on going out of town Saturday am until Monday evening Hopefully the sitter can learn to test, but I haven't heard back from her If not, I'm thinking 1 unit for her to give?
 
Last edited:
Carol & Murphy said:
Bobbie - I am so sorry that Bubba is starting to act up during testing time - Murphy hisses, growls, swats, and as we know, can really sink in his teeth if he wants. I sincerely hope Bubba never bites you It has made testing time highly stressful for me - although I noticed today when he wasn't feeling well, he was quite passive during testing.
Bobbie - I think your progress and possible intervention is very exciting and Sharon, it may be something to keep in mind. It doesn't sound like it is done very frequently though

Murphy has a vet appt tomorrow morning - Sharon - doesn't Colin have one as well? It was anxiety provoking when I realized he was going low earlier and I had no way to steer him except the prescrption DM food (only thing he would eat) - I think that is why his pmps was a little high tonight (that plus I was using an 11/13 cycle) I don't know if I can get up tomorrow at 5 am though - I am not a morning person by nature
Click to expand...

Carol, the canned Purina DM is low carb just under 2%. So it's okay to give.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Murphy's vet appt - he was a bit dehydrated so he got some fluids - did full blood and urine work up - she feels he may have some component of on and off pancreatitis and for some reason, the canned food precipitates it - be it the fat content. maybe after the stabilizes I'll look for some low carb canned food. He won't eat the Young Again at all - luckily I found a local store that sells Evo, and I should get the Wysong Epigen 90 today sometime. So we'll try that for a while. His +6 was over 400 - not sure if this is result of vet visit (several hours earlier) or the little bit of the Royal Canin glycobalance I gave him earlier. I'm going to try to slightly lower his dose, if possible. Of course, with new food, I guess we're starting over
I am still planning on going out of town Saturday am until Monday evening Hopefully the sitter can learn to test, but I haven't heard back from her If not, I'm thinking 1 unit for her to give?
Click to expand...
Did the vet give him fluids right then and there? Do you think the dehydration was from the vomiting? Hope the new food will help and you will be able to get him back into good numbers. :bighug:
 
Woodsywife said:
Carol, the canned Purina DM is low carb just under 2%. So it's okay to give.
Click to expand...
Hi Paula - unfortunately its the dry (he can't tolerate canned) seems to give him pancreatitis
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Re the dose for your trip. Let's see how the different food changes things and adjust closer to your date?
Click to expand...
okay Sue - but I leave Saturday early am so I guess we'll need something Friday evening
 
Woodsywife said:
Any canned can do that? Or just that particular kind. How odd.
Click to expand...
Yes, very odd - ever since I adopted him 5 year ago (way predating DM) I tried getting him on canned food - every flavor fancy feast, science diet, iams, frisksies - every variety of canned food would result in vomiting and nausea and inappetence for a day or so- food aversion to whatever he was eating at the time he got sick. I have never found a canned food that he could tolerate I'm just sick he developed diabetes, in large part due to this
 
Hi Prozinians! Gosh, sure a lot going on with everyone this week!
Sorry to hear Bubba is protesting his tests, but he has had so many lately, can't hardly blame the guy. I am sure it makes testing more stressful for you too, Bobbie, as Carol well knows. :banghead: :banghead: Hope the R (?) will be just the thing for a breakthrough!
Wonder where Robin and Cindi are at? Hope they post soon and everything is good, just busy shopping, etc. with the holidays.
Rupert is running high today, he acts fine, better than yesterday, so not sure what is going on with him. NDW? Maybe.
Hope Colin had a good checkup at the vets!

Vines and hugs to all! :bighug:
 
Lynn & Rupert said:
Hi Prozinians! Gosh, sure a lot going on with everyone this week!
Sorry to hear Bubba is protesting his tests, but he has had so many lately, can't hardly blame the guy. I am sure it makes testing more stressful for you too, Bobbie, as Carol well knows. :banghead: :banghead: Hope the R (?) will be just the thing for a breakthrough!
Wonder where Robin and Cindi are at? Hope they post soon and everything is good, just busy shopping, etc. with the holidays.
Rupert is running high today, he acts fine, better than yesterday, so not sure what is going on with him. NDW? Maybe.
Hope Colin had a good checkup at the vets!

Vines and hugs to all! :bighug:
Click to expand...
Thanks Lynn - vines and hugs back at you!! Sorry Rupert didn't have a good day what is NDW?
 
New Dose Wonkiness! I think...lol :confused: Maybe I got the wrong abbreviation or something. I am so tired, not sure if I could spell my own name right now! Hope Murphy's tummy and food problems resolve soon, you sure could use that trip away!
 
I know you will. I always worry when I have been away, but have been lucky so far. I usually do come back ready to dig in again and with a better attitude. Beans get tired and cranky too. Too bad we can't send our kitties on a vacation too! ;)
 
I should be around Friday too. Sorry I wasn't today...the man had his second endoscopy so I've been at the hospital and then trying to make sure he was taken care of. :)
 
Thanks Sue! This should be the last one for awhile...they needed to widen something...basically it was maintenance this time. He's feeling okay, just slight sore throat. I appreciate the thoughts!
 
Hi Rachel - sounds like esophageal stricture? Thanks to both of you - I don't know what's up with Murphy's numbers the past 24 hours - do you think he is bouncing? He hasn't seemed to bounce in a while. Or maybe just a flare of his pancreatitis I think his now current food, Evo, will have higher carbs than the Young Again - so his insulin requirement may increase. If he'll eat it consistently I'll probably keep him on it and keep the Epigen 90 (which he seems to love) as a snack, and keep it as a backup food in case he stops eating Evo. I was trying to lower the insulin dose a little considering his greens, but maybe they were a reflection that he wasn't eating all that much (although on the vets scale his weight is exactly the same as his last visit about 6 weeks ago) - do you think I am dosing correctly? comments are welcome
 
Carol, his numbers are so unpredictable that I'd think the higher carb or the pancreatitis might b impacting them. Strange how low his nadir was so much lower yesterday and that he is high and flat today. Guess he could be bouncing from yesterday... Or it might be that he wasn't eating much.

Darn. So much going on in addition to the diabetes.
 
Happy to report that Murphy appears to have recovered his appetite - in a huge way - for the first time in months, he is trying to find treats and tearing int the packaging - I have fed him Evo for the past 2 day, but in looking at his spreadsheets, I wonder if that is a reason why his numbers have been so high the past two days When he was on Evo a few months ago, his numbers were also very high (but it was relatively soon after dx) I also have the Epigen 90 which looks to be 5% carbs - I think tonight I'll give him a 50/50 mix of Evo and Epigen - and tomorrow only Epigen to see if his #s go down
 
Sharon14 said:
Yes Colin has an appointment tomorrow afternoon. I hate getting up in the AM, but horses and cats need to be fed and all the other things I need to do before I leave for the day, so up at 5:blackeye: Before Colin's DX, it wasn't so hard, just dump the dry food and go...
Click to expand...
Hi Sharon - perhaps I missed it, but how did Colin's vet appointment go yesterday?
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Happy to report that Murphy appears to have recovered his appetite - in a huge way - for the first time in months, he is trying to find treats and tearing int the packaging - I have fed him Evo for the past 2 day, but in looking at his spreadsheets, I wonder if that is a reason why his numbers have been so high the past two days When he was on Evo a few months ago, his numbers were also very high (but it was relatively soon after dx) I also have the Epigen 90 which looks to be 5% carbs - I think tonight I'll give him a 50/50 mix of Evo and Epigen - and tomorrow only Epigen to see if his #s go down
Click to expand...

This really sounds like pancreatitis, Carol. Off his food and suddenly everything is good again. Hope you can find something he can eat and still have good numbers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top