Trouble getting the dose right

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Bobbie And Bubba

Member Since 2015
Since we switched to Lantus and watched @julie & punkin (ga) great video on care of Lantus and how to draw up insulin, I have had trouble. I have been very diligent NOT to see- saw the insulin back into the pen to contaminate the insulin with the lubricant. I overdraw a bit as in the instructions and when I try to squeeze out the excess to get to my dose, often I over shoot having to refill again. I am wasting a unit or two everyday because of this. I have tried turning the plunger also and seems to take a month of Sunday's to "screw" to my dose. Is anyone else having trouble with this? Any help would be appreciated. This juice is too expensive to waste.
 
Yes! It happened to me plenty of times until I read of a better way. Pull up a little more than the amount you need, then after pulling the needle out of the pen, pull more air in, tap to get air bubbles to the top, then ease the plunger to the desired level. Someone posted that in one of @Lynn & Rupert threads. If you can read their explanation, it is probably easier to understand. I haven't wasted more than a drop since doing it this way.
 
Yes! It happened to me plenty of times until I read of a better way. Pull up a little more than the amount you need, then after pulling the needle out of the pen, pull more air in, tap to get air bubbles to the top, then ease the plunger to the desired level. Someone posted that in one of @Lynn & Rupert threads. If you can read their explanation, it is probably easier to understand. I haven't wasted more than a drop since doing it this way.
Thanks for that info. I will practice with a syringe of water.
 
Are you using the Relion syringes? I just started with those and before that I didn't have a problem. They don't move as smoothly as my others did. I didn't know if I just got a bad box.
 
Are you using the Relion syringes? I just started with those and before that I didn't have a problem. They don't move as smoothly as my others did. I didn't know if I just got a bad box.
Yes I am using the Relion. Maybe it would be worth getting the BD which are expensive but will save in Lantus if they glide better. Do you use calipers as mentioned in that thread?
 
No calipers I just do the best I can with my eyes and glasses of course! Since Colin is getting such a high dose it's easier for me to see it than when he was on a low dose. And we go up in .5 increments instead of .25, also because of his high dose status.
 
No calipers I just do the best I can with my eyes and glasses of course! Since Colin is getting such a high dose it's easier for me to see it than when he was on a low dose. And we go up in .5 increments instead of .25, also because of his high dose status.
I bought 3.0 glasses yesterday to help see better but the sticking plunger is a pain. Practiced with water, still not there yet......
 
Bobbie, I had the same trouble, hence my previous post. Lots of good advice there! I am having less problems, mainly because I have had more practice. Practicing with water is a great idea. Also, the original video said not to reinsert the needle to draw more out, but I do that now, I just make sure I don't let the needle touch anything so there is no contamination. Originally I would throw away a too "short" dose, but now I just draw a little more. So far no contamination that I can see. I might go with the vial next time, it's initially more money, but a little easier to handle. I am going to practice the method Sharon is using too,we sure don't want to waste that liquid gold! Good luck!
 
Bobbie, I had the same trouble, hence my previous post. Lots of good advice there! I am having less problems, mainly because I have had more practice. Practicing with water is a great idea. Also, the original video said not to reinsert the needle to draw more out, but I do that now, I just make sure I don't let the needle touch anything so there is no contamination. Originally I would throw away a too "short" dose, but now I just draw a little more. So far no contamination that I can see. I might go with the vial next time, it's initially more money, but a little easier to handle. I am going to practice the method Sharon is using too,we sure don't want to waste that liquid gold! Good luck!
Hey Lynn, I practice a bit this AM with water and finally got it where I thought I would have the minimum waste. I too reinsert and draw up more if I express too much out. With the waste, it sure shortens the life span of a pen. I had figured if he were on 3 units a dose or 6 units a day, the pen would last 50 days. Not anymore.......Wonder why it's not an issue with ProZinc?
 
I think the difference is the pen vs a vial. The pen has a different vacuum or something and air bubbles are more of an issue. I went with the pen at first, to see how Rupert does on Lev, since it was cheaper buying one pen. If he does well on it, I might go with the vial. I was wondering if we have to fill out that form to buy from the Canadian pharmacy. They have the form here, but I don't here anyone talk about it. Not sure it is really necessary and we can just buy from the pharmacy. Have y'all heard anything about this?
 
I think the difference is the pen vs a vial. The pen has a different vacuum or something and air bubbles are more of an issue. I went with the pen at first, to see how Rupert does on Lev, since it was cheaper buying one pen. If he does well on it, I might go with the vial. I was wondering if we have to fill out that form to buy from the Canadian pharmacy. They have the form here, but I don't here anyone talk about it. Not sure it is really necessary and we can just buy from the pharmacy. Have y'all heard anything about this?
I don't know anything about a form. I will be interested to see what peeps say.
 
I was wondering about Canadian winter shipping, and am planning to call Marks Monday to ask what I have to do. Then when I see the vet Wednesday I hope we can go ahead with the order. I'll let you know what I find out.
 
Also, the original video said not to reinsert the needle to draw more out, but I do that now, I just make sure I don't let the needle touch anything so there is no contamination.

Really, did I say not to re-insert the needle into the insulin to draw up more insulin into the syringe? I'll have to go rewatch the video. I don't remember that, but I have definitely done it. Just always being careful not to touch the needle to something that might contaminate it.

My solostar pen has a dial at the bottom to dispense the dose. Why can't I use that into the syringe?

If the dial at the end of the pen is used, you have to attach special needles to the rubber stopper end of the pen and use them to give the shot. I don't think (although I haven't tried) that it would work to try to push the insulin into the syringe via the pen dial. You could always try it and let us know how it works.

We don't use the dial for a few reasons - one is that it is less precise (giving about 1u rather than exactly to the center of the syringe black line, as a random example) than using syringes. The variations of fat or skinny doses don't matter much when you're giving larger doses like people need. These insulins (Lantus and Lev) were both developed for people. But a fat or skinny dose on 1u can make a huge difference to a small cat.

A second reason is that if one is using the pen dialing mechanism, it needs to be at room temperature. That's why the recommendation to keep the pens at room temp - the mechanism dispenses more accurately at room temp than cold. But using insulin with cats you want it to last as long as possible - so we refrigerate.

The third reason off the top of my head has to do with dosing. Our guidelines have dosing in 0.25u -0.5u increments, which can't be obtained using the dial and pen needles.

You can use a syringe to try to withdraw the bubble from a pen if it's bugging you. It probably doesn't hurt anything to have it in the insulin. The vacuum that seems to exist in new pens goes away once you've used the pen for a little while.

As far as bubbles go - some syringes are far worse at creating bubbles than others. It may be more a syringe issue than an insulin issue. Unfortunately the Terumos that were such good syringes, and cheap as well, are no longer being made in the size we use for cats. They were great at not causing bubbles. I'd try a different brand and see how it works. There is a pretty good selection of needles to choose from on www.americandiabeteswholesale.com Somewhere on this site there is a shopping button and a percentage of your purchase supports FDMB if you use that shopping link. I don't know where it is anymore, however.

A separate issue, but one that we are aware of, is that the markings on syringes tend to not be very accurate. What that means is that the markings are stamped onto the syringes, and they don't always line up at the same point. That can make your dose vary. Many people still use them - I did - because punkin was a high dose cat and I didn't think a small variance would matter too much. But for those whose cats are on small doses, or very sensitive to insulin, or who want to increase their accuracy, that small difference can matter. Some choose to use calipers, which are like external rulers. There is a post about Dosing With Calipers on the "Where Can I Find?" thread in the second half, if any of you are interested.
 
Really, did I say not to re-insert the needle into the insulin to draw up more insulin into the syringe? I'll have to go rewatch the video. I don't remember that, but I have definitely done it. Just always being careful not to touch the needle to something that might contaminate it.



If the dial at the end of the pen is used, you have to attach special needles to the rubber stopper end of the pen and use them to give the shot. I don't think (although I haven't tried) that it would work to try to push the insulin into the syringe via the pen dial. You could always try it and let us know how it works.

We don't use the dial for a few reasons - one is that it is less precise (giving about 1u rather than exactly to the center of the syringe black line, as a random example) than using syringes. The variations of fat or skinny doses don't matter much when you're giving larger doses like people need. These insulins (Lantus and Lev) were both developed for people. But a fat or skinny dose on 1u can make a huge difference to a small cat.

A second reason is that if one is using the pen dialing mechanism, it needs to be at room temperature. That's why the recommendation to keep the pens at room temp - the mechanism dispenses more accurately at room temp than cold. But using insulin with cats you want it to last as long as possible - so we refrigerate.

The third reason off the top of my head has to do with dosing. Our guidelines have dosing in 0.25u -0.5u increments, which can't be obtained using the dial and pen needles.

You can use a syringe to try to withdraw the bubble from a pen if it's bugging you. It probably doesn't hurt anything to have it in the insulin. The vacuum that seems to exist in new pens goes away once you've used the pen for a little while.

As far as bubbles go - some syringes are far worse at creating bubbles than others. It may be more a syringe issue than an insulin issue. Unfortunately the Terumos that were such good syringes, and cheap as well, are no longer being made in the size we use for cats. They were great at not causing bubbles. I'd try a different brand and see how it works. There is a pretty good selection of needles to choose from on www.americandiabeteswholesale.com Somewhere on this site there is a shopping button and a percentage of your purchase supports FDMB if you use that shopping link. I don't know where it is anymore, however.

A separate issue, but one that we are aware of, is that the markings on syringes tend to not be very accurate. What that means is that the markings are stamped onto the syringes, and they don't always line up at the same point. That can make your dose vary. Many people still use them - I did - because punkin was a high dose cat and I didn't think a small variance would matter too much. But for those whose cats are on small doses, or very sensitive to insulin, or who want to increase their accuracy, that small difference can matter. Some choose to use calipers, which are like external rulers. There is a post about Dosing With Calipers on the "Where Can I Find?" thread in the second half, if any of you are interested.
Thanks so much for all the info. I practiced with a syringe and water and I did improve! As far as you saying not to re-insert the syringe in the pen or vial, I did here you say that. I too am careful about not touching anything with the needle in I re-insert.
 
I had two problems with the ReliOn syringes that I bought. One was that, like you, it seemed like it was very hard to adjust to plunger. I wondered if maybe the lubricant is not quite as good. I couldn't "screw" the plunger to adjust the dial in fine increments like I had done with the previous box of Walgreens syringes. The second, and why I really stopped using them entirely, was that the printing on the syringe below 5 units was blurry. When the tick mark is about as wide as a half unit, it is very difficult to dispense semi-accurately (I was not using calipers and still don't...although I am thinking that that will be my next "process improvement"). I know that many others use them though. So, as always, your mileage my vary...
 
You did an excellent, informative video Julie, it helped me so much, I am sure I am not alone in wanting to thank you for that! I watched it three times and it gave me the confidence I needed. You were teaching us to be careful so that we wouldn't contaminate our expensive insulin ! :nailbiting: So, here is a big THANK YOU from me and so many others! :bighug:
 
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I just went back and rewatched the video - if only the vials were still $113!!! I don't say anything in there about not reinserting the needle if you need more insulin. I would do that, and have done that, as long as I hadn't set down the syringe or touched it to anything.

If you guys look at it again and find I'm missing what I said (which is possible!!!) would you note the minute marking and let me know, please?

I have to say, I enjoyed hearing punkin's voice again. He was such a sweetheart. :)
 
Relieved to know it's okay to reinsert the needle as long as it has not touched anything. Maybe I just misunderstood because I was so paranoid about messing it up! lol Wow, vials were only $113!!!! They have doubled in price since then! Makes me wonder what they will cost in another year. :nailbiting:
 
@Sharon14 ....Marks will ask you what the temperature is supposed to be in your area...if it's supposed to be below 40, they may hold the insulin until it's a little warmer

They don't want to risk having the insulin sit in a mailbox and freeze so they won't ship if it's predicted to be too cold in your part of the country
 
I had two problems with the ReliOn syringes that I bought. One was that, like you, it seemed like it was very hard to adjust to plunger. I wondered if maybe the lubricant is not quite as good. I couldn't "screw" the plunger to adjust the dial in fine increments like I had done with the previous box of Walgreens syringes. The second, and why I really stopped using them entirely, was that the printing on the syringe below 5 units was blurry. When the tick mark is about as wide as a half unit, it is very difficult to dispense semi-accurately (I was not using calipers and still don't...although I am thinking that that will be my next "process improvement"). I know that many others use them though. So, as always, your mileage my vary...
I have walgreens and relion syringes and the walgreens are much easier to maneuver -- I was wasting until I watched the video (like 100 times) Also @Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) suggested to practice with colored water and make a "template" to compare to easy dosing until it changes ….I got the hang of it now--but the "screw" technique was not working for me either. I was laughing at the $113--HA $269 now!
 
I was getting Walgreens syringes, but they would only sell me 10 at a time and often were out of my size. So off to Walmart I went, were I can get a box of 100 for $13. They aren't as good though, but I am used to them now. I still can't get the "screw" technique down either, I either screw too little or too much! (that did not sound good ;) :rolleyes: )
 
I was getting Walgreens syringes, but they would only sell me 10 at a time and often were out of my size. So off to Walmart I went, were I can get a box of 100 for $13. They aren't as good though, but I am used to them now. I still can't get the "screw" technique down either, I either screw too little or too much! (that did not sound good ;) :rolleyes: )
My vet originally prescribed the walgreens ones-I got the relion just to see if I liked them better-I practice with those now -
This diabetes is a whole new world…so much to learn.
Yeah the "screwing" technique always ends up with a smirk;) good luck!
 
My vet originally prescribed the walgreens ones-I got the relion just to see if I liked them better-I practice with those now -
This diabetes is a whole new world…so much to learn.
Yeah the "screwing" technique always ends up with a smirk;) good luck!
Lol, it's nice to be able to find some humor in all this, eh? I have been at it for 5 months and still learning every day.
 
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