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myboyJoey

myboyJoey

Member Since 2015
Ok here is a little background and info on one of my cats. This one is Joe.
He is 10 years old and was pretty healthy before he was diagnosed with diabetics..
His number and all he blood work (which I did 2 times a year) always came back good with his glucose # around 115 - 123. His test from March of this year was 123.
About 3 -4 months ago he started losing weight and laying down by the water bowl, but not drinking more than he did in the past. I knew what this was since we dealt with a diabetic cat in the past.
Joe was always a big built cat (almost like a Maine coon) with his weight around 22 or 23 lbs.
He has since dropped to around 18lbs now and looks thin but holding at that weight. I also started him on the Life Link B12 last Sunday since he was weak on his hind legs.
Here are his past and current numbers:
8/18/15 at Vet's office (+10 after shot) - 442
9/15/15 at Vet's office (+ 10 after shot) - 412
10/29/15 at Vet's office (+10 after shot)- 333
11/29/15 at home with help from Vet (+4 after shot)- 342
My Vet is a very good friend of mine and he is not to concerned about his #'s.
We have him on DM wet canned food and he does have some dry DM as well.
He is currently getting 1cc of PZI 2 times a day. I did pick up a glucose test kit, alpha trac, which my Vet showed me how to test. It was a lot easier when he did it, Joe does not like you touching his ears. I will have to get down fast so I can do it. Joe will be going to my Vet's office this Monday for a glucose curve.
Any ideas or help would be great..
Thank you...
 
Yes, testing can be the most difficult part of the treatment! Some suggestions, find a spot that will be your testing spot. Go there many times throughout the day and just pet, and rub Joes ears then give him a low carb treat and let him go. When it gets to where you're both relaxed, add the ear prick. Always give Joe a treat after even if the test is unsuccessful. Before long he'll be looking forward to his tests.
 
I also forgot to mention that Joe is on FortiFlora for diarrhea. He has had loose / sometimes running stools since around July. It was before any diet changes and I was wondering how the diabetes effects his stools? Any help here would be great. We just had his stools tested and they came back negative for any parasites. Also he has been on the Life Link B12 for almost a week, and he seemed to be getting better but the last 2 days he is wobbly again..
 
Diarrhea in cats is always a difficult issue. Cats can have it for completely different issues: food changes, medications, allergies, parasites. Has your vet gotten a stool sample? This page has some good info on diarrhea in felines:

http://pets.webmd.com/cats/guide/cat-diarrhea

As far as your numbers, there is too little data. Besides the number before the shot, the other important info is 5-7 hours after the shot - to know how low the dose took him and whether he bounced up to a higher number at the end of the cycle. Your numbers at +10 tell us what is happening at the end of the cycle, but give us no clue about where he started and how low he went.

Let us know what issues you are having with home testing so we can help you get that going. Once you have some more numbers, we can try to help with dosing.

The ProZinc protocol we put together is in my signature in blue.
 
Have a read about the Feline GI tract over on Feline Constipation.
Also, the use of small amounts of fiber - 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of psyllium, or plain pumpkin (not pie filling), once or twice a day - may be helpful in providing some form to the feces.
 
One thing to note--Purina DM canned is low enough in carbs for a diabetic, but DM dry is too high in carbs. You may have trouble regulating him while the dry food is in the mix. I would suggest just feeding the DM canned, and there are many non-prescription low carb canned foods you can feed.

Because even the lower carb dry foods can present issues, we typically don't recommend dry at all unless the cat absolutely refuses to eat anything else despite best efforts.
 
Hello,
We have been gradually taking him off the DM dry. You know how it is, they love there dry food. Have been trying to find EVO dry but not having to good luck by me, only see online. We also picked up a few cans of the FF classic but only want to give him a small amount since he already has the loose stool issue's.. We did a glucose curve the other day. It was done at the vet's office and he was happy with the results, and he did tell me that they are generally about 20% higher at the Vet's office and that they would be lower once we start testing his levels at home. Working on that!!
Here are his #'s
pre shot 343 (this was after his DM canned breakfast
+2 -386
+4 - 380
+6- 353
+8 - 389
He did raise his amount from 1 cc 2x daily to 1.5 cc 2 x daily. Joe was and still is a big cat, he is like a Maine coon cat. He was around 23+lbs before he was treated and now he is around 18.5. He did add about 1/2lb in the last month. He also has been on Life link B12 for about 2 weeks now and seems a little better. He also is on Forte Flora for the "loose" stools. This he has been on for about 1 1/2 months. We give him 1/2 pack 2 times a day. As you know the weak hind legs make it tougher with loose stools since they tend to sit in the stools. He has me up every time I hear him in the litter box at night. I think the loose stool might be caused by his glucose levels. Any one having any thought on that. I do really appreciate all the responses since I do not know where else to turn.
Thank you again...
 
myboyJoey said:
We also picked up a few cans of the FF classic but only want to give him a small amount since he already has the loose stool issue's..
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, someone here recently had a kitty who's loose stool resolved after removing the dry food from their diet.
 
Thank you. Its tough o figure out since he has had loose stools since July!! Right before he was diagnosed..
 
Were there any changes before July, when the diarrhea started? Some kitties don't do well with the DM food wet or dry. Here's a thread about that.

edited to add: I see you said it started before the food change. Did anything else change at that point?
 
No. That is why we are having a tough time trying to figure it out. All 3 of our cats have been on the same food diet for years. We only switched them over to the low carb diet in August. The 1 big plus is Joe like to eat!! before we raised his shots to 1.5cc he would eat like he has not eaten for days.. Now after we raised his insulin he does not always eat all his food but he still has a great appetite..
 
I believe you mean units, not cc.
One cubic centimeter, aka 1 milliliter, contains 40 units of ProZinc.
 
You could try a bit of canned pumpkin (the pureed kind, not pie filling--ingredients should be 100% pumpkin with no added sugar) mixed with his food, and see if that firms up his stools a bit...sometimes a little added fiber in their diet does the trick. You'll want to mix a teaspoon or two in with his meals, depending on how much he eats at each meal.

If he'll readily eat canned food, I would strongly recommend you just ditch the dry, permanently. Even the lower carb dry foods can present problems with regulation (because they're not low glycemic), and they're hard on the kidneys so they should be especially avoided with diabetics, cats with UT issues, cats with CKD, and senior cats. I think you'll see that once the DM dry is completely gone, his BG levels will start to come down a bit, too, so make sure you're home testing and adjusting the dose as needed.

I would also recommend considering switching the insulin if you're not getting good control with PZI. I would try adjusting the dose with PZI via home testing first, and see if you can't get better control that way, but if you're not seeing improvement after a month or so, I'd strongly consider switching to Lantus (glargine) or Levemir (detemir). Some cats do well on PZI, but some cats don't and need something with a longer duration of action. There's a window with Lantus/Levemir (about 6 months after diagnosis) where the remission rates drop from 80+% of cats to around 35-40%, which is why it's important to not wait to long. Joe is pretty close to that 6 month window.

Good luck! I hope you can get the runny poo situation under control. Bandit has IBD issues and I have to watch his diet carefully, so I can sympathize. I've also noticed that Bandit tends to have loose stool/IBD issues when he's very stressed or sick (including when his BG has gone really high, but there were also concurrant illnesses at those times). We've always treated the runny poo with a bit of pumpkin, Fortiflora, and on severe occasions where those two things didn't work, a course of metronidazole.
 
myboyJoey said:
Ok here is a little background and info on one of my cats. This one is Joe.
He is 10 years old and was pretty healthy before he was diagnosed with diabetics..
His number and all he blood work (which I did 2 times a year) always came back good with his glucose # around 115 - 123. His test from March of this year was 123.
About 3 -4 months ago he started losing weight and laying down by the water bowl, but not drinking more than he did in the past. I knew what this was since we dealt with a diabetic cat in the past.
Joe was always a big built cat (almost like a Maine coon) with his weight around 22 or 23 lbs.
He has since dropped to around 18lbs now and looks thin but holding at that weight. I also started him on the Life Link B12 last Sunday since he was weak on his hind legs.
Here are his past and current numbers:
8/18/15 at Vet's office (+10 after shot) - 442
9/15/15 at Vet's office (+ 10 after shot) - 412
10/29/15 at Vet's office (+10 after shot)- 333
11/29/15 at home with help from Vet (+4 after shot)- 342
My Vet is a very good friend of mine and he is not to concerned about his #'s.
We have him on DM wet canned food and he does have some dry DM as well.
He is currently getting 1cc of PZI 2 times a day. I did pick up a glucose test kit, alpha trac, which my Vet showed me how to test. It was a lot easier when he did it, Joe does not like you touching his ears. I will have to get down fast so I can do it. Joe will be going to my Vet's office this Monday for a glucose curve.
Any ideas or help would be great..
Thank you...
Click to expand...

Where are you in NJ? I'm in Camden County, South Jersey...
 
We have switched Joe gradually off DM dry and onto Wysong Epigen 90 chicken. Does anyone have any thoughts on this dry food?
 
pumpkin adds fiber which can help with both loose stools and constipation. I think there was a recent thread about epigen 90. You might want to search for it.
 
His stool are getting better. They have shape now:)) It is still tough for Joe since his back legs are weak so he sometimes sits in it after he goes. So it's cleanup time:))
 
The weak back legs could be diabetic neuropathy and/or low potassium from the diarrhea and higher urination of diabetes.

For the former, methylcobalamin, a specific form of Vitamin B12, is helpful. One specific product is Zobaline, although generic methyl-B12 is OK, too, so long as there are no added sweeteners.

A blood test will determine if the issue is low potassium; contact your vet, as that is dangerous if too low.
 
We run his potassium levels each time and they were 4.7 last time. We also started him on the Life link B12 about 3-4 weeks ago..
Thank you for the information:)
 
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