? IBD Symptoms? Suggested foods?

[Sherri]

Hello friends! Just wanted to pop by and let you know Shamus is nearly 3 months OTJ! His remission came so quickly and I was so fortunate to have your help getting there.

Currently, I'm wondering about IBD. The vet said if he vomits more than twice a month this could be an issue. Here is some background. I NEVER see him vomit a hairball--EVER! His civvie brother is the one who's famous for that. The last blood work up, just over a month ago, that Shamus had was great--his liver completely healed as well from the fatty liver. He never had pancreatitis at all when diagnosed with the diabetes.

Prior to the diagnosis he would vomit immediately after eating a few times a month. I always thought it was a scarf and barf situation. It settled quite a bit after his diagnosis and the switch to completely canned food. Now I am seeing the vomiting directly after eating, come up again. He eats his food spread about a plate and up higher to slow him down so I'm not so sure it's the eating too quickly thing. He is happy, healthy and active otherwise. He has a good appetite and is maintaining his weight. If he vomits, he will eat again immediately after when I present him the food and keep it down. I have kept notes and it's hard to say, but the vomiting has occurred more times with the chicken food (he was also on w/d chicken food prior to the diabetes diagnosis) but I think all of the Friskies pates have poultry in them (as well as traces of rice). He has vomited about 4 times this month so more (so on average once a week perhaps?).

What is the next step from here? I know there are a lot of invasive things to sometimes even come up with no definitive diagnosis for the IBD. I was wondering if I should try a diet change? I am in Canada so any suggestions for foods that may be helpful in this respect that are obviously canned and low-carb would be greatly appreciated.

I look forward to hearing from you all soon! Wishing you and your sugar kitties much love, health and wellness. xo

Sherri

 

[Squalliesmom]

Hi Sherri. I have a civvie with IBD. IBD is almost impossible to diagnose with a certainty without doing intestinal biopsies. However, luckily, there are other, less invasive (and less $$!) tests you vet can perform, as I imagine yours already has done.

The first thing you should do is try to find a food that Shamus doesn't vomit up. This usually means some type of novel protein, rabbit, duck, lamb, etc. I also try to stay away from anything with carrageenan listed in the ingredients; I know the jury is out on whether or not carreageenan is healthy for pets, but I do believe it exacerbates IBD. Right now I am feeding Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient canned lamb (I have also used the duck and it worked for my girl, too) and Nature's Variety raw bites - I'm using the chicken but they come in other, novel proteins as well). Both are low carb, as well.

Candy's (my girl's) biggest problem is with diarrhea, rather than vomiting, and keeping weight on. I add to her food a pre-/probiotic powder once a day (at breakfast), and twice a day (breakfast and dinner) I give a supplement to help with weight gain, as well as a teaspoon of pumpkin which helps with her diarrhea.

There are also some drugs that can be helpful but a lot of them are not good for diabetic cats (corticosteroids). I have used Metronidazole, it is not a steroid and can be helpful in treating IBD but it's not generally good for them to take it long-term. Also, it tastes perfectly vile, after the first dose your cat will probably run when it sees the bottle the next time, lol. With Candy, the stress of getting the stuff in her outweighed the good it did her.

There are some good sites online with information about feline IBD. Here's one:

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/Health_Information/brochure_ibd.cfm

but there are many others, too.

Hope any of this helps you, good luck. and congrats on Shamus being OTJ, yay!!!

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Bandit has IBD issues that seem to be triggered by foods with very high fat contents, so that's something that you might want to keep an eye out for if for some reason a novel protein doesn't work. Weruva has some flavors great for diabetics and very low in fat. But food intolerances are really common causes, so the novel protein is a great place to start. Rice (and other grains) is a common intolerance. Poultry, not so common but possible.

How many times a day are you feeding? I would also make certain it's not a scarf & barf situtation, which usually occurs when cats are eating twice a day or less. If you're feeding smaller portions more frequently than twice a day, scarf and barf is probably not your problem.

 

[Sherri]

Thanks so much Lucy and Julia!

Shamus hasn't actually had any tests for IBD. I just know the doc had said that could be a possibility if he is vomiting more than twice a month and that we may need to look for a hypoallergenic low carb food if that were the case. I would rather try a change in diet than a vet visit first if possible.

I feed Shamus 3 times a day. He is 17 lbs. He gets 1/2 can 3 times/per day (7am/4-6pm/10pm). I do notice that if I sleep in or am considerably late on a feeding it is more likely that I will be punished with a vomit situation...lol! But not always. It never seems to happen before bed ever...and generally occurs in the morning feeding. Again this is about 4 times a month.

I have seen the Nature's Variety Instinct Limited ingredients online here and do notice they have them at Pet Valu. Is there any reference to how much carbs each of the flavours contains? Also, novel protein means something they've never had before right? I think this might be a great place to start. Online one can was about $1.50. Let me know your thoughts ladies! Thanks again! <3

 

[Squalliesmom]

You can look at the list here to find low carb canned foods.

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Yes, you are absolutely correct about the novel proteins. Since Shamus has probably never encountered them, he is less likely to have an allergic reaction to them. I buy mine online, I didn't realize Pet Valu carried them! Let me know if they're any cheaper there, lol!

One of my civvies has a tendency to vomit up his breakfast if he gets fed later than usual. He's perfectly healthy, his tummy just doesn't appreciate being empty for very long. I just try not to let him go without food in his stomach, and then he is fine.

 

[Shantismom]

My Shanti had IBD and he ate venison & green pea by Natural Balance. It is not a low carb food which made things tricky when he became diabetic but it did help him. His problem was more diarrhea and weight loss.
We tried different medications but really didn't have much success. He had to be on prednisolone for the IBD and asthma. All in all these things worked against him ever being regulated with his insulin.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Here is another great source for information on IBD: http://www.ibdkitties.net/

My civie has IBD. First step in diagnosis might be an ultrasound of the bowels to see if they are inflamed or if something else is in play. A true diagnosis needs a biopsy, but that is rather invasive. I too am in Canada, my civie is on raw novel proteins (kangaroo, venison, pheasant, buffalo).

 

[Critter Mom]

I do notice that if I sleep in or am considerably late on a feeding it is more likely that I will be punished with a vomit situation...lol! But not always. It never seems to happen before bed ever...and generally occurs in the morning feeding. Again this is about 4 times a month.

Hi Sherri,

Sometimes cats can have stomach acid problems if they go too long between feeds. Does Shamus ever bring up watery/frothy liquid vomitus if he hasn't eaten for a while? It might be worth investing in a timed feeder (e.g. Petsafe 5) to see whether that might make a difference. As a precaution, I'd also suggest having a chat with your vet to make sure Shamus' kidneys are A-OK.

Following on from Wendy's post, sometimes an ultrasound can detect thickening of the intestinal walls, which may be indicative of IBD but it's not definitive for diagnostic purposes.


Mogs
.

 

[Sherri]

Hi Mogs! No watery/frothy liquid...only vomits up all of the food just directly after he eats on occasion. I do know that I would personally say he is "lactose intolerant" if that makes any sense. If he takes in even the tiniest amount of dairy (e.g., licks cheese or milk that was left on a plate) he will vomit that frothy liquid MANY times after--nearly instantly. Obviously I don't feed him anything but his wet food so this has only happened by accident and I saw this well before his diagnosis. His kidneys were checked in October and the doc noted that they were great, as they always have been--so no issues there.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Hi Sherry - my cat is similar - adopted him 5 years ago (way before diabtetes) and he was unable to tolerate any brand or flavor of canned food (I tried everything at Petsmart) ate for a few days, then vomited and seemed nauseated - this was a huge problem when he was dx with diabetes in August (same time as Shamus). I started slowly with a novel protein (Royal Canin venison (10% carbs) and he has tolerate it well - eating only that until a few days ago - when he started vomiting every time he ate it - always came back for more but vomited it up. So I've had to stop the canned food for the last two days and switch to just Young Again Zero Carb dry (which thankfully he likes and tolerates) until I can figure out what to do - no vomiting at all since I switched to YA. Our problems sound similar so please let me know if you find a solution.

 

[Sherri]

Hi Carol, I'm so sorry your're going through a tough time with Murphy's food. Lucky for me, Shamus is actually a good eater and I didn't have to go through a multiple of foods to find something he likes. I'm quite confident he'll like whatever wet food I bring home, but I'm just looking for something that may (or may not) help, what I think to be, a potential sensitive tummy--although many do say it could be the scarf and barf situation which is likely too. He only vomits a few times a month directly after he eats and when I do refeed him directly after, he keeps it down. Does Murphy eat too fast? I spread out Shamus' food on a big plate and then have it up on a box so he's not face down in it. I'm just looking for foods that I can try that would be hypoallergenic just to see if that makes a difference--if it does, then I'll know it's not scarf and barf. I will let you know if I find something, but right now, we're still on Friskies and he's not nauseated or feeling unwell.

I just saw WELLNESS Grain Free Core and am wondering if anyone has used this food and what they think??? Low carb, high protein, hypoallergenic food is what I'm on the hunt for.

https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=129

 

[Sherri]

Yes, you are absolutely correct about the novel proteins. Since Shamus has probably never encountered them, he is less likely to have an allergic reaction to them. I buy mine online, I didn't realize Pet Valu carried them! Let me know if they're any cheaper there, lol!

Hi Lucy! I just wanted to let you know that I couldn't find the limited ingredients at Pet Valu. They had NV but only dry and I think some of the original grain free wet foods in another of their stores. It is also much more expensive than I thought. I finally managed to find some NV limited ingredient turkey at a Pet Food Warehouse and they were nearly 3 dollars a can but I brought them home and then looked up the carb content and with no ash listed they were 20% carb so will be bringing them back.

Now I'm wondering about WELLNESS Grain Free Core and if anyone has used this food and what they think??? I put a link to the food in my above post.

 

[Squalliesmom]

Hi Lucy! I just wanted to let you know that I couldn't find the limited ingredients at Pet Valu. They had NV but only dry and I think some of the original grain free wet foods in another of their stores. It is also much more expensive than I thought. I finally managed to find some NV limited ingredient turkey at a Pet Food Warehouse and they were nearly 3 dollars a can but I brought them home and then looked up the carb content and with no ash listed they were 20% carb so will be bringing them back.

Now I'm wondering about WELLNESS Grain Free Core and if anyone has used this food and what they think??? I put a link to the food in my above post.

Hi Sherri. Where did you look up the carb values for Nature's Variety? I have used the lamb flavor in the past, and now use the duck; as best as I can determine the carbs are around 1% for the duck, I think they were a little higher for the lamb, but still under 5%.

I also looked into the Wellness Grain-Free foods. The regular grain-free has carageenan and some starchy vegetables in it, so I steered away from that and checked out the Wellness Core Grain-Free; it also has carageenan, and is about $10.00 more per case than I am spending on the Nature's Variety.

Let me know if you find out any other information that might be helpful, I would like to know! Thanks!

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Hi Carol, I'm so sorry your're going through a tough time with Murphy's food. Lucky for me, Shamus is actually a good eater and I didn't have to go through a multiple of foods to find something he likes. I'm quite confident he'll like whatever wet food I bring home, but I'm just looking for something that may (or may not) help, what I think to be, a potential sensitive tummy--although many do say it could be the scarf and barf situation which is likely too. He only vomits a few times a month directly after he eats and when I do refeed him directly after, he keeps it down. Does Murphy eat too fast? I spread out Shamus' food on a big plate and then have it up on a box so he's not face down in it. I'm just looking for foods that I can try that would be hypoallergenic just to see if that makes a difference--if it does, then I'll know it's not scarf and barf. I will let you know if I find something, but right now, we're still on Friskies and he's not nauseated or feeling unwell.

I just saw WELLNESS Grain Free Core and am wondering if anyone has used this food and what they think??? Low carb, high protein, hypoallergenic food is what I'm on the hunt for.

https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=129

Sherry - Murphy will actually eat just about any canned food - the problem is that they all make him nauseous and vomit - that's why I ended up with venison as the novel protein I don't understand how a protein in a canned food can make these allergic kitties sick, but not the same protein in a dry food

 

[Sherri]

Hi Sherri. Where did you look up the carb values for Nature's Variety? I have used the lamb flavor in the past, and now use the duck; as best as I can determine the carbs are around 1% for the duck, I think they were a little higher for the lamb, but still under 5%.

I also looked into the Wellness Grain-Free foods. The regular grain-free has carageenan and some starchy vegetables in it, so I steered away from that and checked out the Wellness Core Grain-Free; it also has carageenan, and is about $10.00 more per case than I am spending on the Nature's Variety.

Let me know if you find out any other information that might be helpful, I would like to know! Thanks!

Lucy, I just put the info from the can and from the website into my carb calculator app. There is no mention of Ash so I put that in as zero and that's how I got the 20%. This was the LIMITED ingredient though. It appears as though on the food chart for NV the original instinct flavours (not limited ingredient) are listed and they are very low. I'm just confused though, because the same numbers are given on the website for those flavours with no Ash so I must be doing something wrong.. :S

 

[Squalliesmom]

Sherri this is the online calculator I usually use if the carb values aren't listed on one of the charts:

http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

It takes 2 steps to get an estimate of the percent of calories from carbohydrates.
1) plug in the required numbers from the label.
2) divide the calories from carbohydrates by the total calories to get percent. (Thank you, BJM!)

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Hi Carol, I'm so sorry your're going through a tough time with Murphy's food. Lucky for me, Shamus is actually a good eater and I didn't have to go through a multiple of foods to find something he likes. I'm quite confident he'll like whatever wet food I bring home, but I'm just looking for something that may (or may not) help, what I think to be, a potential sensitive tummy--although many do say it could be the scarf and barf situation which is likely too. He only vomits a few times a month directly after he eats and when I do refeed him directly after, he keeps it down. Does Murphy eat too fast? I spread out Shamus' food on a big plate and then have it up on a box so he's not face down in it. I'm just looking for foods that I can try that would be hypoallergenic just to see if that makes a difference--if it does, then I'll know it's not scarf and barf. I will let you know if I find something, but right now, we're still on Friskies and he's not nauseated or feeling unwell.

I just saw WELLNESS Grain Free Core and am wondering if anyone has used this food and what they think??? Low carb, high protein, hypoallergenic food is what I'm on the hunt for.

https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=129

I feed my young cat Wellness Core canned, and Bandit eats a mix of Weruva and Wellness Core. But, his situation is a little different because his GI problems occur because he doesn't tolerate high fat foods well, and we know it's not an protein allergy/intolerance situation. Wellness Core isn't a hypoallergenic food. It's lower in fat than most premium brands, but it's not so great if you're looking for a novel protein food. If you're going for a novel protein food, I would recommend Nature's Variety Instinct line. They have several foods that are diabetic safe and use novel proteins (Lamb, Duck, Rabbit, and Venision). But, keep in mind that they're high in fat. Most cats do just fine with higher fat foods, but a few (like Bandit) may not.

You can find the values for most of the nature's variety flavors (and the Wellness) here: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Sherry - Murphy will actually eat just about any canned food - the problem is that they all make him nauseous and vomit - that's why I ended up with venison as the novel protein I don't understand how a protein in a canned food can make these allergic kitties sick, but not the same protein in a dry food

Carol, are you sure he's not vomiting up his canned food because he's doing a "scarf and barf"? There is nothing different about proteins in canned food vs. dry food that would that would cause a food intolerance (it's not technically an allergy, even though it's often called that). However, I have seen many cats that vomit up their canned food soon after they eat it because they eat too quickly, or not frequently enough, or a combination of the two. Because they eat the dry food more slowly, it doesn't cause them to vomit. Feeding smaller portions more frequently (e.g. 4x a day or more), or getting a food dish (like this one) that causes them to eat more slowly can solve that problem. Also, some cats have an excess of stomach acid (especially those with early stage CKD), so if they go too long without eating they have a lot of acid in their stomach and it can cause nausea and vomiting. It doesn't happen when they eat dry food because they have access to the food 24/7. The solution is to feed smaller, more frequent meals of canned food, and possibly supplement with a very small dose of pepcid (famotidine).

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Carol, are you sure he's not vomiting up his canned food because he's doing a "scarf and barf"? There is nothing different about proteins in canned food vs. dry food that would that would cause a food intolerance (it's not technically an allergy, even though it's often called that). However, I have seen many cats that vomit up their canned food soon after they eat it because they eat too quickly, or not frequently enough, or a combination of the two. Because they eat the dry food more slowly, it doesn't cause them to vomit. Feeding smaller portions more frequently (e.g. 4x a day or more), or getting a food dish (like this one) that causes them to eat more slowly can solve that problem. Also, some cats have an excess of stomach acid (especially those with early stage CKD), so if they go too long without eating they have a lot of acid in their stomach and it can cause nausea and vomiting. It doesn't happen when they eat dry food because they have access to the food 24/7. The solution is to feed smaller, more frequent meals of canned food, and possibly supplement with a very small dose of pepcid (famotidine).

@Julia & Bandit thank you for your thoughts I had noticed that sometimes Murphy does vomit when he has a very empty stomach - I had him on pepcid sporadically - now every day - I also started slippery elm I don't really think its' scarf and barf - he doesn't necessarily vomit as soon as he eats - it can be 10 -15 minutes later and he doesn't eat fast - it can take him over 10 minutes to finish 2 oz - it also occurs after just a small amount of food. I adopted Murphy 5 years ago, and tried to start him on canned food since then - it's always the same scenario - he eats it fine for about 3 days, then vomits then seems nauseated for a day or two and doesn't eat - he develops food aversions very easy and after an episode he won't look at any canned food for a few weeks - I repeat the cycle on and on - with every type/flavor of canned using the novel venison protein (and I introduced it very slowly) was the longest he has gone being able to tolerate canned food. I might try just a tablespoon in a few day to see what happens In 5 years, no one has been able to understand why he vomits canned food but it does seem to be a real thing