Murphy back to low amps -cycles make no sense

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Carol & Murphy (GA)

Carol & Murphy (GA)

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I tested Murphy @+13 this morning - 173 waited 30 minutes (so now +13.5) and was 164. judging by the past few days cycles, I gave him 1 unit although not technically supposed to with sliding scale. I know what today will bring - sky high BG in afternoon, I'll shoot him a high dose early, and we will repeat the whole thing again tomorrow The only thing different about these last few days has been he hasn't been getting any Young Again - I think my experiment to see if removal of all Young Again would improve his BG has not been very successful and I may give him a few pieces today
he's also starting to not cooperate during testing time - we had a few "time outs" this morning as he was growling and trying to bite me - been happening more and more - poor little guy
 
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Darn. What a pattern. Maybe you could leave a little of the YA overnight for a snack. That's when we need his numbers up a smidge. If you could get a normal amps, then you could get back on track.

He probably is feeling crummy, roller coasting from highs to lows. You won't need to test today, so maybe just pats and loving.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Darn. What a pattern. Maybe you could leave a little of the YA overnight for a snack. That's when we need his numbers up a smidge. If you could get a normal amps, then you could get back on track.

He probably is feeling crummy, roller coasting from highs to lows. You won't need to test today, so maybe just pats and loving.
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Thanks, Sue that's a good idea of leaving some YA out overnight We'll see what @Merlin says about lowering the pm dose a bit
 
Well that's interesting. Those PM cycles seem to run high mid way through...and then he plummets in the morning. The only thing I can think of is the insulin lasting too long...but there may be another explanation that I haven't thought of (or no explanation!). I'd say it might be worth it to try reducing the dose tonight...and see what happens. Maybe go down to 2 and see if that brings his AMPS up some so you can reach 2 shootable preshots?

I'll be interested to see what everyone else says.
 
Rachel said:
Well that's interesting. Those PM cycles seem to run high mid way through...and then he plummets in the morning. The only thing I can think of is the insulin lasting too long...but there may be another explanation that I haven't thought of (or no explanation!). I'd say it might be worth it to try reducing the dose tonight...and see what happens. Maybe go down to 2 and see if that brings his AMPS up some so you can reach 2 shootable preshots?

I'll be interested to see what everyone else says.
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Thanks Rachel There's a saying in medicine that you never want to be considered an interesting patient - poor Murphy I was excited to see no sugar in his urine earlier though
 
I believe it! My dad told me once that when he went to a dentist once, he learned 2 things you never want to hear in the dentist chair:
1. Well crap
2. If we do this write, we could be written up in medical journals!
 
Rachel said:
I believe it! My dad told me once that when he went to a dentist once, he learned 2 things you never want to hear in the dentist chair:
1. Well crap
2. If we do this write, we could be written up in medical journals!
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Hah I agree with your Dad on that one!
 
Murphy's pmps (tested at +11) was 497 - I am going to give him 2.25 tonight and test at +13 tomorrow - wish us luck for a shootable amps tomorrow!! 6 inches of snow here and counting (but it's beautiful)
 
Hey Carol. I am sorry that I was gone all day. I had to leave at 5am this morning (got up at 4am) and I just got home 30 minutes ago. I had two raptor education programs to go to which was 90 minutes away and south from my house and then I had to go north of my house about 90 minutes to go pick up something.

So just curious if you were able to test sometime today to see what the 1 unit did for the 173 number. Just wondering how low Murphy might have gone. Yep, good idea to decrease by 0.25. Hopefully you will be over 200 tomorrow am. Excellent news on the ketone test.
 
Merlin said:
Hey Carol. I am sorry that I was gone all day. I had to leave at 5am this morning (got up at 4am) and I just got home 30 minutes ago. I had two raptor education programs to go to which was 90 minutes away and south from my house and then I had to go north of my house about 90 minutes to go pick up something.

So just curious if you were able to test sometime today to see what the 1 unit did for the 173 number. Just wondering how low Murphy might have gone. Yep, good idea to decrease by 0.25. Hopefully you will be over 200 tomorrow am. Excellent news on the ketone test.
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Hi Cindi - thanks for checking in - I think your raptor work is so interesting - would love to see pics sometimes
I knew I should have gotten some testing in, but lately Murphy has been so cranky when I test - growling and trying to bite me, Sue gave me permission to take the day off. He used to be good, but he is anything but now. So I am sorry, but I have no numbers - except a +5 number tonight of 313 - I plan to test tomorrow morning @+13. I'm also going to leave a small amount of Young Again out for him to nibble on tonight - I have confidence that this little episode whatever it was, is going to be gone soon. At least I know I can probably shoot a 1 unit at 173 (I really do wish I did have the data from today)
One question - if he has a high amps - like above 450 - should I do a 2.5 or 2.75?
 
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Quick question. I think you are shooting 13/11, right? So is your 11 hours during the day or night? Any chance you can write in the times that you shoot like you did on 11/18 & 11/19? Since he is running higher at night and going lower in the day plus AMPS seems to be lower than the PMPS, just want to keep track of those two scenarios to see if that gives us a clue. I would like to see at least a 50% drop at night at mid cycle but that doesn't appear that it is happening. I would like to figure out his late night/early morning numbers first.

What where you thinking about shooting? I would probably shoot 2.5 if 450 and above if it was in the AM because Murphy does go a little lower during the day. I think it would be interesting to see if he has the same pattern as on 11/18. If he does, then the next time of 450 and above, shoot a 2.75u. If 2.5u doesn't get you a good nadir, we can increase. Now if you get a 450 and above at night, we may want to rethink that as a 2.5u gave you low numbers for the PMPS.
 
well, I should be careful what I wished for --although I did get up at 3 am to give Murphy some YA to get his amps up to where I could shoot him, I didn't expect a 511 reading and I didn't expect 443 at a +4.5 reading - I'll check another at 6.5 I've noticed more and bigger clumps of urine in the litter box as well - almost like he's unregulated again
 
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Sharon14 said:
Good morning Carol, sorry Murphy is so high this AM. Curious, did you test him before the YA?
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Hi Sharon - no, I wanted to give him some food at +9 to increase the chances of a shootable amps - I had a feeling he was going to break that too low to shoot am cycle last night - What I am concerned with now is his 443 at +4.5 and definitely increased number and size of his urine clumps- his litter box almost looks like it did at the time of diagnosis. I see you got a high number too. Sorry -- how long does it take the depot to fill?
 
I was just curious how much, if any, the YA had to do with his high AMPS. If he was already going up high, then maybe none, but if he wasn't, maybe the YA made things worse? It takes several days for the depot to fill. I also over fed a bit:oops:... So that, plus accidental reduced dose, plus Colin bounces for a few days after a blue, the high number this AM wasn't unexpected.

I hope Murphy gets back on track quickly. How does he seem to feel? Eating good?
 
Sharon14 said:
I was just curious how much, if any, the YA had to do with his high AMPS. If he was already going up high, then maybe none, but if he wasn't, maybe the YA made things worse? It takes several days for the depot to fill. I also over fed a bit:oops:... So that, plus accidental reduced dose, plus Colin bounces for a few days after a blue, the high number this AM wasn't unexpected.

I hope Murphy gets back on track quickly. How does he seem to feel? Eating good?
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He's eating like a horse - come to think of it, maybe the increased urine is due to increased water - he's now on 1.5 cans of the venison a day for the past few days, and I've been putting in a ton of water with the wet food
 
Carol, it appears to me that Murphy is bouncing a lot since 11/19. I'm wonder if he doesn't need smaller dose changes?
'Cause if you look closely, he's gone from a skinny 1 to 2.5, which resulted in a too-low AMPS - so then no dose right back to 2.5, then 1 yesterday a.m.; then back to 2.5 that night & again this morning.

This is just my own humble opinion, but Murphy may be one of those cats whose body doesn't handle abrupt &/or significant dose changes (meaning 0.5 or more units @ a time) all that well. May be a possibility ...
 
Robin&BB said:
Carol, it appears to me that Murphy is bouncing a lot since 11/19. I'm wonder if he doesn't need smaller dose changes?
'Cause if you look closely, he's gone from a skinny 1 to 2.5, which resulted in a too-low AMPS - so then no dose right back to 2.5, then 1 yesterday a.m.; then back to 2.5 that night & again this morning.

This is just my own humble opinion, but Murphy may be one of those cats whose body doesn't handle abrupt &/or significant dose changes (meaning 0.5 or more units @ a time) all that well. May be a possibility ...
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Hi Robin - actually you are right and this was brought up to me about a month ago when we were working on a dose. The past few days have been such a roller coaster with very low amps then very high pmps - I tried the 11/13 shooting --so when I am faced with these roller coaster numbers, how to handle? I need to get him back on track.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Hi Robin - actually you are right and this was brought up to me about a month ago when we were working on a dose. The past few days have been such a roller coaster with very low amps then very high pmps - I tried the 11/13 shooting --so when I am faced with these roller coaster numbers, how to handle? I need to get him back on track.
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what kind of dose would you suggest then?
 
Sharon14 said:
Festival was fun. Weather wasn't as nice as Fri, cloudy with some sprinkles so turnout wasn't as good. But it was still nice to sit out in the woods. They had some bluegrass performers, and a dulcimer group, as well as a local Native American tribe.
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That festival really does sound like fun, Sharon!:)
 
Robin&BB said:
Well, even if he's still running high tonight, if this were my cat, I'd back him down by about a 0.20-0.25 (roughly a quarter of a unit - you're using U100s, right?)
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No I have U-40s with half unit markings This is a very good point, Robin I am very glad you noticed it - boy, it does take a village to figure out some sugar kitties
 
Sharon14 said:
Festival was fun. Weather wasn't as nice as Fri, cloudy with some sprinkles so turnout wasn't as good. But it was still nice to sit out in the woods. They had some bluegrass performers, and a dulcimer group, as well as a local Native American tribe.
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couldn't very well sit out in the woods here yesterday (or today)( see photo attached)
 

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Am glad your U40s have half-unit markings; then should be pretty easy for you to eyeball a quarter-unit. (When I started w/ProZinc, I only had U40s marked on the full unit; switched to the U100s when she had dropped to doses of less than a half-unit.)
 
His +6.5 reading is 427 - going to be a high and flat day - now I'm wondering if he went pretty low yesterday when I gave him 1 unit with an amps of 173 (and I wasn't testing) and now this is a bounce? Possible? anyone?
 
I don't know Carol...it's hard to say. That could be it. Since we can't really know, I wouldn't drive yourself nuts thinking about it though. Let's see where the day takes him and go from there.
 
Rachel said:
I don't know Carol...it's hard to say. That could be it. Since we can't really know, I wouldn't drive yourself nuts thinking about it though. Let's see where the day takes him and go from there.
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thanks Rachel although I have a pretty good idea of where the day will take him - since his +6.5 was 427, I'm sure his pmps will be around 500 and above. So should I give him 2.25?
 
Carol & Murphy said:
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Hi Sharon - no, I wanted to give him some food at +9 to increase the chances of a shootable amps - I had a feeling he was going to break that too low to shoot am cycle last night - What I am concerned with now is his 443 at +4.5 and definitely increased number and size of his urine clumps- his litter box almost looks like it did at the time of diagnosis. I see you got a high number too. Sorry -- how long does it take the depot to fill?
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Carol, the same thing happened to Bubba when he was in the pinks for awhile. He started drinking more and peeing more volume. It's subsidy now.
 
@Sue and Oliver (GA) @Merlin - I am leaning towards Robin's hunch that the wild dose swings of the past few days are too much for Murphy (hope it's not grasping at straws) He's having another late nadir today as his +8 was lower than his +6.5 Any insights or thoughts? I'm leaning towards a 2.25 tonight (unless he's too low)
 
Yes I think we should try the 2.25 if he is not too low. That is why I really didn't want to go any higher this am. So we can see what a lower dose will get him.
 
thanks Cindi - I wish I didn't need so much assistance - just when I thought (even last week) the worst was behind me, it's staring me in the face again. I want to be sure you all know how much I appreciate you time and wisdom
 
Carol & Murphy said:
thanks Cindi - I wish I didn't need so much assistance - just when I thought (even last week) the worst was behind me, it's staring me in the face again. I want to be sure you all know how much I appreciate you time and wisdom
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Ditto for me Carol but the fact is, I still need the assistance with dosing too. How long are we under the umbrella of help from the wise ones? ;)
 
No problem Carol and Bobbie. Just wished we could get better results with a blink of an eye. I don't know how many times I have had one sliding scale, updated to a new one and then only to revert back to the old one. Sometimes, they just decide to settle in better with certain doses after you have made the change. You just have to find what that "certain" dose is.

@Bobbie And Bubba and @Carol & Murphy - Sue can attest to this but I was asking about doses almost every day for probably six months and then a few times there after. I do remember around that sixth month time frame, I wrote to @Sue and Oliver (GA) saying that "hey, I think I am getting this!" A few months after that, I really felt good about my confidence about dosing even though Merlin's pre-shot numbers were still not the greatest. He was pretty good at getting a nice blue/green at nadir but his pre-shots were still in the pink/red. I was giving him a higher dose back then too. Merlin really started getting better pre-shot numbers just last June 2015 (18 months after diagnosis), just six months ago, and his doses have decreased by 50% since June 2015 too. I attribute it to changing my food from 5% low carb, wet food to 4% low carb wet food. It made that much of a difference! It clearly shows on my ss. So you just have to figure out what works and continually to be patient, to analyze your ss data, clearly report the data and any changes that occur, try new things and feel great about what you have done so far. It is definitely a long, hard process for most of us.

You guys are already at that 5-6 month and already are doing very well at dosing and trying new things. Pretty soon, your kitties will get on board and hopefully it won't take as long to figure out what works, as it did for me i.e. 18 months.
 
@Merlin @Sue and Oliver (GA) Rachel, Robin/anyone I just checked Murphy's PMPS (+11.5 from am shot) and he is now at nadir at 301 - I guess this means the 2.5 was too high but it leaves me with a dilemma with what to shoot tonight - we kinda decided the wild dose swings from the sliding scale weren't good for him - I was going to go with 2.25 but do you think that's okay with his pmps (it might have gone down further if I had waited the full 12 hrs) I'm not seeing the insulin kick in until way into the dose (+6 hrs or so) so that makes it seem like 2.25 would be okay - but am not sure - if anyone is on the board until about 6:30 eastern time, I could use a soothing word of advice (the another alternative would be a fat 2 which probably is very little different from a 2.25) And Cindi - I have only been at this 3 1/2 months (per your above post) so please give me 2 months more to learn this!!! (maybe I'm such a pest it only seems like 6 months that I've been on) :(
 
Murphy seems to run higher at night but if he is still dropping just a little, you could try a 2. At previous shots, you got a blue nadir with a 2 for a 300 number. The sliding scale also indicates a 301 1.75u. On 11/18, your PMPS was 181 and you gave 1.75, on 11/12 your PMPS was 315 and you gave 2u and got to a mid blue for nadir. Need to review the PMPS numbers as he does run higher to see what those number/doses were giving you. Since he has a little juice in him that is till working, I probably would go with a 2. What do you feel comfortable with based on past data?
 
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