Need help!! MAX

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PAMELA ALLEN

PAMELA ALLEN

Member Since 2015
I got Max home yesterday evening, his last reading at vet was 150 right before we and home. I thought I did good this morning with my first injection, but I am beginning to think it did not penetrate (Max has long hair) because I checked his blood again 2+ after shot and my relion meter just said "hi", they said just give him 2.5 it's Vetsulin once a day. I don't know what to do. Should I give him a dose this evening???
 
PAMELA ALLEN said:
I got Max home yesterday evening, his last reading at vet was 150 right before we and home.
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Hi, Pamela - Could you try getting another BG test with your Relion meter now?
And did you do a BG test before you injected this morning? If so, please tell us what that # was. (Will give you some more info after I hear back from you. Thanks!:)) - Robin
 
Robin&BB said:
Hi, Pamela - Could you try getting another BG test with your Relion meter now?
And did you do a BG test before you injected this morning? If so, please tell us what that # was. (Will give you some more info after I hear back from you. Thanks!:)) - Robin
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It was 472 this morning at 7:30 before his shot and right after he ate. I will check it again in a minute and let you know. I'm so glad y'all are here, this stresses me
 
PAMELA ALLEN said:
I'm so glad y'all are here, this stresses me
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Don't worry, Pamela - I'm just so happy to hear you are home-testing Max's blood glucose; that's GREAT!

And you've come to the right place: There are so many experienced people here at FDMB who will help you get Max well regulated. This is a wonderful community of people who really care about you and your kitty. (I can't tell you enough how grateful I've been for all the support I've been given.)
 
Pam, everyone and I mean everyone - even people dealing with FD for years - gives a fur shot. And the wisdom here is that you shouldn't reshoot. If only a small bit of insulin went in, adding more can be a problem. If I were you, I could catch a few tests when you can today and see if maybe he did get some. And then yes, tonight I would shoot one unit. He may be high for a few cycles before he gets back on track after the once a day shots, but you will get him doing well. We'll help.

The other wisdom here is "better high for a day than low for a minute.

How about giving Max a little hair cut today - where you are planning to shoot, trim back the hair some so you can see better.
 
I've had plenty of "Hi" readings on my ReliOn meter recently :( It does make you worry, I agree. I also think that while the cat is not regulated, in the beginning of the treatment, their BG can do lots of ups and downs. And even if it is said that cats are not supposed to have post-meal glucose spikes, it still makes sense that a meal will elevate their blood sugar. DO NOT give another shot right away if you see that BG reading in the first couple (2-3) hours is higher than before or seemingly does not go down. Even if its a fur shot it is better to wait till you next "shot time" to give insulin. That said, I always thought we are aiming for twice a day shot schedule but people familiar with Vetsulin would be better to answer that question.
 
Kot said:
I've had plenty of "Hi" readings on my ReliOn meter recently :( It does make you worry, I agree. I also think that while the cat is not regulated, in the beginning of the treatment, their BG can do lots of ups and downs. And even if it is said that cats are not supposed to have post-meal glucose spikes, it still makes sense that a meal will elevate their blood sugar. DO NOT give another shot right away if you see that BG reading in the first couple (2-3) hours is higher than before or seemingly does not go down. Even if its a fur shot it is better to wait till you next "shot time" to give insulin. That said, I always thought we are aiming for twice a day shot schedule but people familiar with Vetsulin would be better to answer that question.
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Vetsulin should also be given twice a day at 12-hour intervals.
 
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Yep, I'm 100% sure that Lucy meant to type that "2" just right of the "1"... (Wanna know how many times I have to go back and edit my posts for my typos? Yowza!:p)
 
PAMELA ALLEN said:
It was 472 this morning at 7:30 before his shot and right after he ate. I will check it again in a minute and let you know. I'm so glad y'all are here, this stresses me
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I just checked and his reading was 467, that is 5+ hours after what I called his shot that didn't penetrate
 
Glad its going down!

Also, when the meter says "Hi" (how nice of the meter to be so courteous!) it means that the BG level is above the measuring capacity of the meter, right? So , Max's BG level probably was going down during these five hours, and your shot was on target, but it just did not fall below the meter's reading capacity until an hour or two ago.
 
Kot said:
I've had plenty of "Hi" readings on my ReliOn meter recently :( It does make you worry, I agree. I also think that while the cat is not regulated, in the beginning of the treatment, their BG can do lots of ups and downs. And even if it is said that cats are not supposed to have post-meal glucose spikes, it still makes sense that a meal will elevate their blood sugar. DO NOT give another shot right away if you see that BG reading in the first couple (2-3) hours is higher than before or seemingly does not go down. Even if its a fur shot it is better to wait till you next "shot time" to give insulin. That said, I always thought we are aiming for twice a day shot schedule but people familiar with Vetsulin would be better to answer that question.
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Oh thank you!!! I feel so much better! So you suggest 1 unit this evening? I will
 
Robin&BB said:
@Squalliesmom - Oops, I see a TYPO here: That should be 12-hour intervals. ;)
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Dyana said:
I think Lucy meant to write at 12 hour intervals.
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Robin&BB said:
Yep, I'm 100% sure that Lucy meant to type that "2" just right of the "1"... (Wanna know how many times I have to go back and edit my posts for my typos? Yowza!:p)
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Thank you all for the backup editing!!! :) I most certainly DID mean 12-hour intervals! :oops: The majority of my laptop number keys do not function (obviously #2 is one of them!) and I have to use the on-screen keyboad to input numbers, but sometimes I forget, sorry! :facepalm: Glad you all were her to catch that and correct the info! :):)
 
PAMELA ALLEN said:
I have 3 others too and just Max is diabetic, I have bought all this hi protein canned food and he won't eat it! All my other kitties are mad cause I quit feeding dry!
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Oh Pamela, I have been in exactly the same boat with my four, lol! I ended up putting away the "old " food and buying something different; when they got tired of that I brought the "old" stuff back out and they all thought it was wonderful, go figure! Cats! :cat:
 
PAMELA ALLEN said:
Oh thank you!!! I feel so much better! So you suggest 1 unit this evening? I will
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Pamela, I hope others will give you advice on the evening dose as well but I would think that your dose should be the same as the morning one , 2.5U. See how high Max is an hour before the shot and just before the shot. I'm not familiar with Vetsulin action but judging by the numbers in your spreadsheet Max did not drop that far from his AMPS number and you want consistency in dosing. I know Novolin clears out of the system pretty much by 10-11 hours after the shot and Lantus/Levemir stay in the system for more than 12 hours. I honestly think if you give him only 1 unit at night and Vetsulin is a kind of mid-range duration insulin, you would see "Hi" number again by tomorrow morning. Again, people that are Vetsulin users would be better advisors here :)
 
Pamela, what time did you give Max his shot this morning? Vetsulin needs to be given at 12 hour intervals. About 60-45 minutes before he is due his next shot you will need to test him and then feed him (provided his BG is 200 or over). He needs to have food in his tummy before he gets his shot, so you'll need to wait 30 minutes or so before you shoot.

Once you have tested him, post his numbers here and we'll try to help you with dosing, if we can. :)
 
Squalliesmom said:
Pamela, what time did you give Max his shot this morning? Vetsulin needs to be given at 12 hour intervals. About 60-45 minutes before he is due his next shot you will need to test him and then feed him (provided his BG is 200 or over). He needs to have food in his tummy before he gets his shot, so you'll need to wait 30 minutes or so before you shoot.

Once you have tested him, post his numbers here and we'll try to help you with dosing, if we can. :)
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Okay I'm fixing to prick his poor little ear again, will let you know the number. What dose of Vetsulin dies your baby get?
 
Paula thought her shot this morning could have been a fur shot. It may or may not have been, but I would err on the side of caution. If one unit is not enough, the dose can be raised as home testing indicates. Since there are so many variables here - fur shot/no fur shot, going from once daily shot to twice daily, I would suggest one unit tonight is the best course. If he continues in high ranges and his nadir is not low enough to cause the preshots to be bounces, then I would definitely support a raise in a couple cycles.

Paula, one other factor working here is whether the higher preshots are bounces. When you just have preshots for data, it can be possible that the cat drops low and his body releases extra glucose, resulting in a bounce the next shot time. We don't know if that is the case until you get some numbers.

You mentioned taking Max back to the vet on Monday. I hope you will feel confident enough testing by then that you can suggest to the vet you'll get the numbers and send him the results on your spreadsheet. We know stress raises blood glucose levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. Some cats test 100+ points lower when they get home and relax.

You had said you got 150 for your first home test. When was that in relation to the shot?
 
So it was likely that he did get some insulin this morning, if he is about the same range as this morning. One thing we need to know - did the vet say anything about ketones or DKA?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Paula thought her shot this morning could have been a fur shot. It may or may not have been, but I would err on the side of caution. If one unit is not enough, the dose can be raised as home testing indicates. Since there are so many variables here - fur shot/no fur shot, going from once daily shot to twice daily, I would suggest one unit tonight is the best course. If he continues in high ranges and his nadir is not low enough to cause the preshots to be bounces, then I would definitely support a raise in a couple cycles.

Paula, one other factor working here is whether the higher preshots are bounces. When you just have preshots for data, it can be possible that the cat drops low and his body releases extra glucose, resulting in a bounce the next shot time. We don't know if that is the case until you get some numbers.

You mentioned taking Max back to the vet on Monday. I hope you will feel confident enough testing by then that you can suggest to the vet you'll get the numbers and send him the results on your spreadsheet. We know stress raises blood glucose levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. Some cats test 100+ points lower when they get home and relax.

You had said you got 150 for your first home test. When was that in relation to the shot?
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No 150 was at the vet before we left yesterday afternoon anout 3:30. I don't take him back for checkup till Monday after Thanksgiving. Just checked it again ant it was 493, I put it on the spreadsheet. So do y'all think I need to inject him again about 7 tonight with just 1 unit??
 
Then we don't have to worry about a restart at one unit, if that is what you decide to do. If you give 2.5 units, I'd plan to get some tests in tonight, to be sure he doesn't go too low.

My thinking is that the high pre shot tests you've gotten were when you were shooting 2.5 units once daily. If you're planning on going to twice a day dosing, I'd cut the old dose in half.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
How about giving Max a little hair cut today - where you are planning to shoot, trim back the hair some so you can see better.
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I agree. I haven't seen many people talk about this since I got on FDMB, but our first diabetic kitty Brady had very long hair, and when he was diagnosed, the vet went ahead and shaved a square about 3" on his scruff so that we would know we got all of the insulin in him. We don't do it anymore, but at the beginning when everything was so overwhelming, we found it helpful.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Then we don't have to worry about a restart at one unit, if that is what you decide to do. If you give 2.5 units, I'd plan to get some tests in tonight, to be sure he doesn't go too low.

My thinking is that the high pre shot tests you've gotten were when you were shooting 2.5 units once daily. If you're planning on going to twice a day dosing, I'd cut the old dose in half.
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So instead of 2.5 units do little over 1 unit twice a day? Starting tonight? Give him a little over 1 unit???
 
He is your cat, Pamela, and you hold the syringe. You get to decide. If he were mine, I would give one unit, get a test a couple hours later to see where he is and maybe a before bed test. We suggest starting at one unit - for any insulin. I don't know why your vet started at 2.5 but it is a high beginning dose. Maybe Max was high at the vet because of stress. I'd start with one unit twice daily, get all the tests you can and then you'll be able to see how the insulin is working and whether he needs more.

I am not a vet; it's just my opinion.
 
Squalliesmom said:
Pamela, what time did you give Max his shot this morning? Vetsulin needs to be given at 12 hour intervals. About 60-45 minutes before he is due his next shot you will need to test him and then feed him (provided his BG is 200 or over). He needs to have food in his tummy before he gets his shot, so you'll need to wait 30 minutes or so before you shoot.

Once you have tested him, post his numbers here and we'll try to help you with dosing, if we can. :)
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Tested him 4:50, 493
 
Pamela, I agree with Sue and Oliver. Best always to err on the side of caution! I would go with 1 unit (or 1.25, if you can eyeball it, but that's a real challenge, I would just go with 1 if it was me) and see where that takes him. You can always increase a dose at the next shot-time, but once you've given it there's no way to get it back out, if it' too much!
 
Think
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
He is your cat, Pamela, and you hold the syringe. You get to decide. If he were mine, I would give one unit, get a test a couple hours later to see where he is and maybe a before bed test. We suggest starting at one unit - for any insulin. I don't know why your vet started at 2.5 but it is a high beginning dose. Maybe Max was high at the vet because of stress. I'd start with one unit twice daily, get all the tests you can and then you'll be able to see how the insulin is working and whether he needs more.

I am not a vet; it's just my opinion.
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I will do that, and then tomorrow 1 unit twice a day
 
Squalliesmom said:
Pamela, I agree with Sue and Oliver. Best always to err on the side of caution! I would go with 1 unit (or 1.25, if you can eyeball it, but that's a real challenge, I would just go with 1 if it was me) and see where that takes him. You can always increase a dose at the next shot-time, but once you've given it there's no way to get it back out, if it' too much!
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That's what I will do, thank you both so much
 
If you can manage it, try to get some tests in around the +2 to +6 range. Vetsulin's onset is usually around 3-5 hrs after administration so it would be good to test a couple of times to see how low that first drop is going to take Max.
 
And yes, after you get the shots and testing down, it would be wise to pick up some ketone strips at the drug store. They are the same kind humans use. You stick them in his urine stream (it sounds impossible but we have ways to accomplish it. :smuggrin:).

And Pamela, breathe deeply and often. Think how much you have learned today - about how your insulin works, putting together a spreadsheet. You are testing and giving him a shot. Take a few minutes to relax, breathe, enjoy Max and pat yourself on the back. :bighug:
 
Squalliesmom said:
Vetsulin should also be given twice a day at 12-hour intervals.
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Ok I gave max another dose of Vetsulin at 7:00 this evening, just 1 unit and will continue with the 1 unit twice a day for a few days. I also got some ketone strips, I am fixing to prick his ear in a min to see what kind of number we have 2+
 
I'm sorry, Pamela - I just got back a little while ago, so did I miss something? I don't see a preshot # on your SS tonight. Did you wait to test until after you fed & shot the 1.0 unit?
 
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