Murphy still high, flat

Status
Not open for further replies.
Carol & Murphy (GA)

Carol & Murphy (GA)

Very Active Member
I decided to start another thread
I opened a new prozinc vial today and increased his dose to a fat 1.5 - his +5 is 378 - I can't budge this cat
I called the compounding pharmacy and asked them about the doxy suspension - they said there was a tiny tiny bit of stevia in the suspension, as well as a tiny bit of glycerol I looked up glycerol and it said it is acceptable in a diabetic diet I guess stevia is too
If this continues, I feel like I should raise his dose to a skinny 2 tonight or is that too quickly - I want to see yellow
 
How is the food change coming, Carol? Will he eat the version? I am thinking that is part of your issue.

You did get yellows at 1 unit but nothing low enough to make me think you need to go down. I would give the dose 3 cycles before raising.
 
Hi Sue- he now eats 1/4 of a large can of venison a day - slowly I"m decreasing the Royal Canin dry glycobalance (he's getting way less than half of what he got initially and down from two weeks ago- about 1/10 of a cup a day and day by day I decrease it as I gradually increase the canned ) the rest of his food is young again mature zero carb - so I don't think that is explaining what is going on the past several days - high, flat, very little response to the insulin - ok I'll give another fat 1.5 this evening and then 2 tomorrow am but I wish I knew why his insulin requirements go up and down and now up
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
How is the food change coming, Carol? Will he eat the version? I am thinking that is part of your issue. You did get yellows at 1 unit but nothing low enough to make me think you need to go down. I would give the dose 3 cycles before raising.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with @Sue and Oliver (GA): Give the dose a few cycles before making another shift.

Maybe this is a dumb question (as I'd been gone for a bit, may have missed some discussions), but when was the last time his urine was cultured to make 100% certain he doesn't have a bit of a UTI brewing?
 
He last had a urine C&S soon after he was dx mid Aug I think -- when I monitor his urine for ketones, I have the urine strips that measure glucose, ketones and about 10 other measures, including blood and white blood cells - he doesn't have any evidence of a UTI per that. Plus I think the antibiotic (doxycycline) he is on now for the nasal issue would cover urinary pathogens (he's never had a UTI so no reason to think he'd have a resistant bug) So can I increase to a skinny 2 tomorrow am?
 
Carol, must admit that I'm kinda flummoxed here. It's really hard to tell what it is that's keeping him high & flat at this point...

One of my concerns, though, is that if you look back & note when Murphy last popped you any blues, yellows, etc. mid-cycle, it's been when he's at a lower dose rather than a higher one. The weird thing is that his preshot #s don't seem to budge much regardless of what the dose is. It's a real puzzler!

I'd like to get some input from @Sue and Oliver (GA) & see what she thinks you might do at this point ...
 
His numbers confuse me. Some points it looks like his levels might be better at 1 unit, but he never goes really low. Normally it would be logical to increase but when you increase, he tends to go high and flat.

I am at a loss. I guess, if he were mine, I would go ahead and raise every three cycles by 0.25 and see if you get some lower numbers. It is possible that he has just gotten used to being in the higher levels and needs a jolt to drop.

I wish I had a better answer, Carol.
 
I know you are discouraged, Carol, but he is at a low dose. If he was at 6 units twice daily, then we'd start worrying about his being unregulated and start looking at other issues. He is increasing only to 2 units.
 
@Robin&BB @Sue and Oliver (GA) @Rachel okay now I really need your help - Murphy's cycle has broken - his pmps was 233 - I stalled - 240 stalled again 235 (on alphatrak) so he's really in no shoot zone and not going up I finally had to feed him - why didn't I get more readings this afternoon - this looks like the 1.5 was too high, yes? it was a new vial of insulin today so maybe that has something to do with it
I really need advice on what to give him tonight now
 
Hi, Carol - Where did you hear that you can't shoot him at 200 on an Alpha Trak? I always have, with no trouble.
 
I don't know - I was told that the 200 no shoot was for the human meter and it was 230 for alphatrak - in any case, regardless, what do you think I should do - I was shocked to get these readings
 
Carol C said:
I don't know - I was told that the 200 no shoot was for the human meter and it was 230 for alphatrak - in any case, regardless, what do you think I should do - I was shocked to get these readings
Click to expand...
These are very GOOD readings, Carol; nothing to worry about. But as you are going into a pm cycle and it appears that he's finally breaking that cycle of high preshot #s tonight, I'd suggest you drop the dose to 1.25 - just to err on the safe side - and monitor.

ETA: I would caution against over-correcting, though ... which is why I suggest a redux of only 0.25 for tonight. If he starts running high @ AMPS, you can always inch him back up a little at a time.
 
well, its too late because I already gave him the insulin
1st reading 233 10 minutes later 240 10 minutes later 235 - I realize this is the same number
 
Robin&BB said:
Ok - can you give me those 3 readings you got @ PMPS in time sequence?
Click to expand...
Carol C said:
well, its too late because I already gave him the insulin
1st reading 233 10 minutes later 240 10 minutes later 235 - I realize this is the same number
Click to expand...

Sorry just went back & read your earlier post on this, so you didn't need to give me the sequence. Those 3 #s weren't that far apart, so I think you were fine to shoot at the reduced dose. A couple of things to keep in mind:

1) The differential between the "stay alert #" on human glucometer (<50) vs. Alpha Trak2 (<68) at the low end of the reference range is not technically known to be static/same differential - percentage-wise - at the upper end of the reference range; I have never had a problem shooting my cat at 200 or more using my AlphaTrak meter (been using one since 2013). So if Murphy's at 200 or more on your AT2, your good to go with a shot of insulin.
#2 coming in a minute wanted to get this off right now so that you're reassured you did fine.
 
(continued from above ...)
2) If you're at all worried about him dropping more, you can go ahead test him as early as +2 to +2.5 to ease your mind. (I've done that when I'm unsure of where Bat was heading.) You'll probably want to check on him again around +3.5 to +4, and depending on what you get then, you'll know whether you need to test him again around +5 or +6. But ... I'd caution you against steering with food when he's in the blues: This would make it harder for you to see if he'd hit greens on his own and it's not necessary to steer at that time when you're closely monitoring a cycle you're not quite sure about. For you, since you're new at this, I'd raise the "time to steer with low-carb food" # t0 "80" on your AT2 meter, rather than "68 or less." Here's why:

- It gives you a little more of a safety margin, so you'll feel less nervousness about those greens;
- You'll be able to easily steer him back upward with his lower-carb food - about 0.75 oz of that is usually enough (rather than gravy-type higher carb food, which can make his BG start rising too much more than you want). After you give him that, you'd check his BG in about 20 minutes to make sure it's starting to rise. If it is you're good; if it's still dropping at that time, you give a little more of the low-carb and repeat the test about 15-20 minutes later.

One of the things I learned pretty early on is that - by raising that "time to steer" # on the AT2 to around 80 - I could get Bat-Bat's BG# up without resorting to the "big guns" (i.e., Karo syrup and/or high-carb gravy-type food), thereby avoiding inadvertently raising her BG way more than where it needed to be. Believe me, I know how it feels when you suddenly start seeing lower #s ... it's hard not to get spooked by that! But believe me, it's actually a very good thing when you start seeing him going (at last!) in the direction you've been hoping for for what feels like an eternity. (Yeah, when it starts happening during a nighttime cycle you kinda go :banghead: ... but we'll take it, right?;))

Don't worry Carol - I promise I'll hang in with you tonight. Will that help? (Ha, I'm still 3 hours behind you!):bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Robin&BB said:
(continued from above ...)
2) If you're at all worried about him dropping more, you can go ahead test him as early as +2 to +2.5 to ease your mind. (I've done that when I'm unsure of where Bat was heading.) You'll probably want to check on him again around +3.5 to +4, and depending on what you get then, you'll know whether you need to test him again around +5 or +6. But ... I'd caution you against steering with food when he's in the blues: This would make it harder for you to see if he'd hit greens on his own and it's not necessary to steer at that time when you're closely monitoring a cycle you're not quite sure about. For you, since you're new at this, I'd raise the "time to steer with low-carb food" # t0 "80" on your AT2 meter, rather than "68 or less." Here's why:

- It gives you a little more of a safety margin, so you'll feel less nervousness about those greens;
- You'll be able to easily steer him back upward with his lower-carb food - about 0.75 oz of that is usually enough (rather than gravy-type higher carb food, which can make his BG start rising too much more than you want). After you give him that, you'd check his BG in about 20 minutes to make sure it's starting to rise. If it is you're good; if it's still dropping at that time, you give a little more of the low-carb and repeat the test about 15-20 minutes later.

One of the things I learned pretty early on is that - by raising that "time to steer" # on the AT2 to around 80 - I could get Bat-Bat's BG# up without resorting to the "big guns" (i.e., Karo syrup and/or high-carb gravy-type food), thereby avoiding inadvertently raising her BG way more than where it needed to be. Believe me, I know how it feels when you suddenly start seeing lower #s ... it's hard not to get spooked by that! But believe me, it's actually a very good thing when you start seeing him going (at last!) in the direction you've been hoping for for what feels like an eternity. (Yeah, when it starts happening during a nighttime cycle you kinda go :banghead: ... but we'll take it, right?;))

Don't worry Carol - I promise I'll hang in with you tonight. Will that help? (Ha, I'm still 3 hours behind you!):bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
@Robin&BB thank you so much - you are very kind I am such a worry wart when it comes to hypo -- I think probably because very early on in this, he was actually only very hungry one mid morning and I happened to check the BG and it was 26. (and of course it was 20 minutes before I had to leave for a mammogram) I will check him later
 
Carol C said:
I am such a worry wart when it comes to hypo -- I think probably because very early on in this, he was actually only very hungry one mid morning and I happened to check the BG and it was 26. (and of course it was 20 minutes before I had to leave for a mammogram) I will check him later
Click to expand...
Hey, that's enough reason for ANYBODY to be concerned about hypos after an experience like that one! You poor thing:bighug: ... that sort of number is scary for sure!:nailbiting: (And even more so for AT2 users like us.)
 
Hey Carol! I think you may have gotten that no shoot number from a post we had for a vacation dose for someone. We had suggested raising the no shoot number to like 220 for someone (can't remember who) for a vacation. :)

Glad to see those numbers starting to break! We may have found what he needs (anti jinx!)
 
Rachel said:
Hahahah! Maybe it's creeping up on me too!
Click to expand...
Made me think, "Hmm, grim reaper ... dim creeper..." And then I thought of Edgar Allan Poe and The Raven - because Halloween's coming. And then I remembered somebody posted this on Facebook & it was so funny! (Yes, my mind is something of a hamster wheel.:p) So in honor of Halloween:
P-A Raven.JPG
 
Hmmmmmm....that 220 sounds familiar....ahhhh......well.....that was me.:oops: I used that number as a no shoot number for the last time I was on vacation. I changed it this last time to 180 but yes....it was me.
 
Merlin said:
Hmmmmmm....that 220 sounds familiar....ahhhh......well.....that was me.:oops:
Click to expand...
@Merlin Ha! And now it's my turn to be embarrassed:oops:, because I should have remembered that it was you, Cindi! Duh. Am goin' for the old six-oh (!:eek:) in about a week, so I'm claiming C.R.S.:D
 
Well ... he may have been holding onto the insulin's effect a little longer than 12 hours; kinda hard to tell at this point. And for all we know, his spiking the # he just did at +3 could be a combination of having just had his meal + being more agitated given the stalling, etc. @ PMPS time ... again, is hard for us to tell. But in view of the difference between his AMPS & PMPS today, I'd be inclined (if it were me) to go no further than a "fat" 1.25 in the morning, in the hope that this will help him even out somewhat. I wish I could give you a perfect plan here, Carol. (Where's that crystal ball when we need one, huh?:banghead:) But lately Murphy really is hard to figure out ... (So does that sound reasonable to you? No more than a fat 1.25 in the a.m.?)
 
Merlin said:
Hmmmmmm....that 220 sounds familiar....ahhhh......well.....that was me.:oops: I used that
Click to expand...
Robin&BB said:
Well ... he may have been holding onto the insulin's effect a little longer than 12 hours; kinda hard to tell at this point. And for all we know, his spiking the # he just did at +3 could be a combination of having just had his meal + being more agitated given the stalling, etc. @ PMPS time ... again, is hard for us to tell. But in view of the difference between his AMPS & PMPS today, I'd be inclined (if it were me) to go no further than a "fat" 1.25 in the morning, in the hope that this will help him even out somewhat. I wish I could give you a perfect plan here, Carol. (Where's that crystal ball when we need one, huh?:banghead:) But lately Murphy really is hard to figure out ... (So does that sound reasonable to you? No more than a fat 1.25 in the a.m.?)
Click to expand...
just checked it at +4 and it is up to 467 - I really hope it's not 700 by tomorrow morning - just in case it is off the chart high in the am, would you still go with a fat 1.25 ?
 
If the # is off the charts in the morning, I suppose you could just try going back to the 1.5 zone as before. At this point it's kind of a crap-shoot, Carol. While we would hope to avoid causing Murphy a bounce, we also don't want him up in the 500s, either. I only worry about going with too large a shift in dose all at once (meaning more than 0.25U at a time) as seems that doesn't do him a whole lot of good, either. Hmmm.

(May I join you in one of these? :banghead: Or maybe I should just do one or two myself, so that you don't have to...;))
 
Ugh Well I'm going to bed kinda dreading his #s tomorrow but we'll see
Sure appreciate the help though I'd be nuts trying to figure this out on my own
 
Carol C said:
Ugh Well I'm going to bed kinda dreading his #s tomorrow but we'll see
Sure appreciate the help though I'd be nuts trying to figure this out on my own
Click to expand...
Oh, I know. Get a good night's sleep, ok? We'll see what tomorrow brings.:bighug:
 
Morning, Carol! How's Mr. Murphy doing today? I realize you may not be up quite this early, but I thought I'd pop in and say hi anyway. Sorry I wasn't really around last night (though I know Robin was here for you!). I was in bed roughly an hour after I got home. Phew!

Murphy sure is trying to confuse us! I'm really not sure why he decided to shoot up last night...it'll be interesting for sure to see what this AMPS brings.

Remind me...has he been to the vet recently? I know we had a rash of tooth outages here, and I can't remember if Murphy was part of that. I just wonder if any underlying infection might be brewing (not saying there is...just trying to figure out what is causing these numbers).
 
I swear they hear us discussing a dose change and decide to throw a wrench in the numbers. I agree with Robin - you can start giving him insulin at 200 and a little below. He does seem to jump up right after a lower pmps....
 
Good morning, Carol. Having my first :coffee::coffee: & looking @ Mr. M's SS. Well, the good news is that his AMPS is 10 pts. lower than yesterday's, even after that spike @ +4 last night. So that's good, right?;) Will be interesting to see how his cycle rolls out today.
 
thanks all - well his +4 was 361 - about 100 points lower than the amps but still I am hoping he will get into the yellows - I'll check him maybe around +7 see what that shows. To answer Rachel's question, I have a house call only vet - she was last here October 9th - said Murphy had a little gingivitis but nothing too bad and didn't need a dental at the moment. He has had a terrible ragweed season and lately bad post nasal drip - occasionally he'll sneeze some grey looking stuff - he was started on doxycycline suspension last Friday for that (presumed nasal/sinus issue) He seems better but intermittently is congested still. I don't think he has a UTI - I use those glucose urine strips that also test for blood and white blood cells in addition to ketones - his urine has no microscopic blood or white blood cells - besides the doxycycline should take care of a UTI So I can't think of an active infection he could have. I guess one thing is that he is really a couch potato of late -he's an indoor kitty and he is not getting much exercise lately I'm trying to get him more active
Rachel - please tell us - did you boss let you off work early? Are you feeling better
 
Speaking of gingivitis...I am trying out DE (food grade Diatomamaceous Earth) on the dogs and cats here lately. I put a little in their food, water and lately I started brushing their teeth with it. I don't have gingivitis but I started using DE for brushing my teeth too. I just dip the wet toothbrush in the DE and then add a little organic toothpaste on top of the tooth brush and then brush away. I can actually feel the difference in my teeth and supposedly, it is suppose to reverse gingivitis. . Here is a link: https://www.diatomaceousearth.com/diatomaceous-earth-health-benefits/ We shall see.
 
Merlin said:
Speaking of gingivitis...I am trying out DE (food grade Diatomamaceous Earth) on the dogs and cats here lately. I put a little in their food, water and lately I started brushing their teeth with it. I don't have gingivitis but I started using DE for brushing my teeth too. I just dip the wet toothbrush in the DE and then add a little organic toothpaste on top of the tooth brush and then brush away. I can actually feel the difference in my teeth and supposedly, it is suppose to reverse gingivitis. . Here is a link: https://www.diatomaceousearth.com/diatomaceous-earth-health-benefits/ We shall see.
Click to expand...
Cindi, be careful when using the DC that you don't inhale it if it goes air-born as it can be a real irritant in the lungs. I have used it all around my house and scrubs and was very careful if it were breezy when I used it. Also, I used to put it in their food to help with worms and such. Is that why you are adding it to their food or have you read anything about it helping for other things? Sorry Carol, I high-jacked your thread.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I swear they hear us discussing a dose change and decide to throw a wrench in the numbers. I agree with Robin - you can start giving him insulin at 200 and a little below. He does seem to jump up right after a lower pmps....
Click to expand...
Boy, is that true. After last night's discussion about whether we should go to a 13/11 schedule Bubba throw a yellow AMPS! That's part of their charm. Hang tight Carol!! :)
 
How exciting for Murphy today...let's keep our fingers crossed for the PMPS.

Yeah, regarding the DE, I take it and so does my husband as a daily regiment. I am convinced that I feel better when I drink it and I am thinking that it cleans the vessels, colon, and I am thinking the kidneys. Yeah, I am aware of the irritant. I got it in my eyes once and it felt like I had pieces of glass in it for about 30 minutes.
 
Congratulations on the yellow Carol!

I used to take the DE myself. I would either drink it or mix it in some food. Not sure why I stopped, but I may start it back up. Haven't tried it for brushing my teeth, may check that out too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top