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Cat Ma said:
@Robin&BB did Bat-Bat's UTI put her out of remission?
Does having an UTI put a cat at risk at having more UTIs?
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I asked my vet that same question last February when she got so sick, CJ.
He said it's one of those "which came first: the chicken or the egg" questions, if only because he's seen some cats fall out of remission without any type of active infection going on - so it's anyone's guess which happened first in Bat's case. But yes, he did confirm that once having had a UTI can mean that a cat is more prone to having UTIs in the future, so advised me to be extra watchful as relates to seeing a drier litter box than is usual for her.

Do I think that any type of infection or inflammatory process can push a cat out of remission? I personally believe that this can, indeed, be the case - but not always.

Bat's first UTI was way back in 2009. She had zero evidence of diabetes then; her BG was normal. It took 3 rounds of 3 different antibiotics to finally clear that UTI; was one of those "multiple antibiotic-resistant" strains - very pesky! (Made me a big believer in culturing the urine sample.) What I think greatly contributed to her developing diabetes was the Hill's (s/o?) diet she was rx'd at the time: Vet gave us both canned and dry versions, & she suddenly started gaining weight very rapidly while on that! Turned out it was chock-full of CORN meal! Alarmed me so much that I called the vet and asked if she could stop eating it; they then agreed. But I knew nothing in those days as relates to obesity and diabetes ... so switched her to what I believed was "healthier" :rolleyes: grain-free, all-organic dry kibble (she only got a little canned each day, and I know now that the canned she was getting was not low-carb, either). Today I believe it was diet and the resulting obesity that put her in the cross-hairs for the diabetes that nailed her by 2013. (Which might explain why I'm something of a harpy now about "a slender - not emaciated - cat is a healthier cat.";))
 
Robin&BB said:
It took 3 rounds of 3 different antibiotics to finally clear that UTI; was one of those "multiple antibiotic-resistant" strains - very pesky! (Made me a big believer in culturing the urine sample.
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What a pain to go through so many rounds of antibiotics. I sure hope Bonnie doesn't have to go that route.
 
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Cat Ma said:
Buprenex has been prescribed for post dental pain. Is there any side effects or issues with this med I should be concerned about? Is this commonly prescribed?
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Be prepared for some constipation with the Buprenex - Pumpkin puree or psyillium husk powder can help with that.

Mitz gets D-Mannose to prevent UTI problems. It's available at health food stores and is a nearly flavorless powder that dissolves easily in wet food. If you Google 'd-mannose for cats' you'll find more info.

Hope Bonnie recovers quickly!

Joan
 
Mitzelplik's Mom said:
Be prepared for some constipation with the Buprenex - Pumpkin puree or psyillium husk powder can help with that.
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Bonnie usually gets diarrhea but I am keeping an eye out for the constipation and have pumpkin plus Miralax on hand.

Mitzelplik's Mom said:
Mitz gets D-Mannose to prevent UTI problems.
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This is very helpful to know. I have been wondering what to give her and heard about D-Mannose. How much D-Mannose do you give Mitz?
Does Mitz get a special UTI diet, as well? Or can the D-Mannose be added to any food? Bonnie has to have an IBD diet.
 
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I accidentally aimed the Buprenex towards Bonnie's throat/tongue this morning instead of aiming it towards her cheek pocket (lack of sleep to blame). She swallowed the Buprenex. Is there any danger in this happening one time?
 
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Cat Ma said:
a special UTI diet
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Most of the urinary tract diets are aimed at either reducing the likelihood of crystals and/or keeping the urine pH at a good level. Keeping the urine just acidic enough can help prevent infections, but these diets aren't really aimed at preventing actual infections per se. D-mannose can be found in cranberries, which in people is good at preventing UTIs but I don't know anything about it's use in cats. I am also curious to learn more about it. @Mitzelplik's Mom , I know that it's a type of carbohydrate, but I'm guessing it doesn't effect Mitz's BG much? I know that doesn't matter for Bonnie since she's not diabetic, but I'm just curious.
 
Cat Ma said:
anyone else, I accidentally aimed the Buprenex towards Bonnie's throat/tongue this morning instead of aiming it towards her cheek pocket (lack of sleep to blame). She swallowed the Buprenex. Is there any danger in this happening one time?
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No, don't panic. I've done this by accident too. She'll be fine but it might not work as well for pain relief purposes.
 
I guess you could always call the vet to make sure though... They tell you to put it in the cheek b/c they absorb it better through the cheek membrane than through their gut.
 
SpecklesandMe said:
Most of the urinary tract diets are aimed at either reducing the likelihood of crystals and/or keeping the urine pH at a good level. Keeping the urine just acidic enough can help prevent infections, but these diets aren't really aimed at preventing actual infections per se. D-mannose can be found in cranberries, which in people is good at preventing UTIs but I don't know anything about it's use in cats. I am also curious to learn more about it. @Mitzelplik's Mom , I know that it's a type of carbohydrate, but I'm guessing it doesn't effect Mitz's BG much? I know that doesn't matter for Bonnie since she's not diabetic, but I'm just curious.
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Mitz gets 1/8 teaspoon 2x/day. You can give larger, more frequent doses to help clear an infection. It can be added to any food or liquid - it dissolves very quickly when wet. It has a very mildly sweet taste which Mitz doesn't seem to notice at all. Although it is chemically a sugar (the source is cranberries), it's a type that is not metabolized so no, it does not have any impact on Mitz's BG. I get it in the health section at Whole Foods (good for people too).
http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/article/HOME/141
http://healthypets.mercola.com/site.../prevent-urinary-tract-infection-in-cats.aspx
 
Mitzelplik's Mom said:
It can be added to any food or liquid - it dissolves very quickly when wet. It has a very mildly sweet taste which Mitz doesn't seem to notice at all. Although it is chemically a sugar (the source is cranberries), it's a type that is not metabolized so no, it does not have any impact on Mitz's BG.
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Awesome info! I want to try it too!
 
@Robin&BB, was Bat-Bat's appetite off the whole time she was on antibiotics? Bonnie's appetite is completely gone now so I've been force feeding her.
I wished I had realized how much of an impact an UTI, dental, antibiotics and pain meds would have, especially on Bonnie. I knew it would be hard on her but I just wasn't expecting her to stop eating completely.
 
Cat Ma said:
was Bat-Bat's appetite off the whole time she was on antibiotics?
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It was pretty lousy the first week, got a little better over the next few days ... I'd say she wasn't quite up to par on appetite until we were finished with the antibiotic entirely.
I'm so sorry Bonnie's feeling so poorly that she won't eat for you on her own. I do know that pain meds can really cause an upset stomach (I would assume this can happen in a cat just as it can in a human; when the doc tried to have me take Vicodin for my herniated discs, I could only take 1/2 the recommended dose; otherwise I was just too nauseated to even think about eating...) Is Bonnie still on the pain meds? Maybe you should ask the vet if it's ok to cut the dose of that in half? Which antibiotic is she on?
 
I think Robin&BB is definitely on to something. One of our vets said the bup makes some cats less hungry. Lowering the dose of the bup, if the vet thinks it's okay, might be worth a try?
Sending healing vines!
 
Cat Ma said:
@Robin&BB, was Bat-Bat's appetite off the whole time she was on antibiotics? Bonnie's appetite is completely gone now so I've been force feeding her.
I wished I had realized how much of an impact an UTI, dental, antibiotics and pain meds would have, especially on Bonnie. I knew it would be hard on her but I just wasn't expecting her to stop eating completely.
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Have you tried Florti -Flora to help stimulate her appetite?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Have you tried Florti -Flora to help stimulate her appetite?
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She usually loves FortiFlora but has no interest in it at all now.

Kidney functioning is climbing up to the very end of high normal. The vet completely overlooked that, saying everything looked "great" but when I brought it to his attention, he said "yeah, we should keep an eye on that".
 
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Cat Ma said:
The vet completely overlooked that, saying everything looked "great" but when I brought it to his attention, he said "yeah, we should keep an eye on that".[/QUOTE
Arghhhh. That is sure frustrating. Guess that 's why they call it "practicing medicine" You are really a great nurse to her, that is for sure. It probably is helping her with you feeding her small meals and frequently. What was the Buprenex RX for? Do you think she still needs it? Last week, our dog, Ricky had an anal gland abscess, fun fun, and it blew a hole in his butt. Vet irrigated it and RX antibotics and metacam for pain. I only gave him one dose of the metacam because he was perfectly comfortable, not trying to gnaw or lick it. so I knew it wasn't bothering him. The vets instructions was to give it to him for 7 days which I think was overkill. So, I guess my point is that if you think she is comfortable, and she were my kittie, I would stop the Buprenex just to give her stomach a break .
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Mitzelplik's Mom said:
Mitz gets 1/8 teaspoon 2x/day. You can give larger, more frequent doses to help clear an infection. It can be added to any food or liquid - it dissolves very quickly when wet. It has a very mildly sweet taste which Mitz doesn't seem to notice at all. Although it is chemically a sugar (the source is cranberries), it's a type that is not metabolized so no, it does not have any impact on Mitz's BG. I get it in the health section at Whole Foods (good for people too).
http://www.neighborhoodcats.org/article/HOME/141
http://healthypets.mercola.com/site.../prevent-urinary-tract-infection-in-cats.aspx
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You can also buy organic blueberry powder and sprinkle it on her food ( like you were salting it) I had great luck with doig that for my civvie cat, Forrest, when he got several partial blockages due to the stervite crystals. He stopped getting them after I used it daily. Then I started the cats on Wellness No Grain and they add cranberries to their formulas for urinary health. No more crystals.
 
I think you'd asked about the Bup dose. I will check what dose Speckles was given when I get home. I think it was about 1cc, but he was much bigger than your kitty. In the meantime, here's something Mogs had posted on one of my old threads about the dose she gives her kitty:
"Saoirse does better on small doses - <0.1ml for 10lb cat ad hoc, max 2x per day suited her at height of flare - higher doses disagreed with her in a big way and made her very lethargic, but ECID."
We're thinking of you and sending healing vines!!!!
 
SpecklesandMe said:
I think you'd asked about the Bup dose. I will check what dose Speckles was given when I get home. I think it was about 1cc, but he was much bigger than your kitty. In the meantime, here's something Mogs had posted on one of my old threads about the dose she gives her kitty:
"Saoirse does better on small doses - <0.1ml for 10lb cat ad hoc, max 2x per day suited her at height of flare - higher doses disagreed with her in a big way and made her very lethargic, but ECID." We're thinking of you and sending healing vines!!!!
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I stopped the Bup several days ago. Bonnie perked up after the med was stopped but then she had diarrhea (despite lots of Forti Flora) and vomiting. Both issues are under control better now but she became dehydrated and she's still not eating well or gaining weight so was instructed to give her some sub q fluids. Force feeding continues. I am quite surprised the vet didn't adjust dosage according to weight and prescribed, as Bobbie & Bobba said, enough pain meds for "overkill". Bonnie is still producing very large quantities of urine after a week on the antibiotics.
 
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I'm so sorry to hear about the diarrhea and vomiting. Sub Q is smart.
It's weird that she has large quantities of urine- to my knowledge, most UTIs are usually associated with small quantities of sometimes bloody urine, resulting in the cat going to the box several times a day but producing little volume each time. Hmm...
Please hang in there. I really hope she feels better soon. Sending hugs!
 
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I'm also surprised at the large quantities of urine. When Marsh had a UTI she was peeing tiny amounts, about the size of a quarter. I'm glad she's on sub q fluids. I hope she gets better soon. I know how exhausting and stressful it is to be on full-time cat care (and of course I know you want her to do better for her own sake). :(
 
I didn't realize until this morning that you and Bonnie have been going through such a rough time of it! I hope she is better soon.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
you might ask your vet for prescriptions for ondansetron for nausea. it's a human drug so you would take it to a pharmacy, he won't likely have
any to give you. 1/4 of a 4mg tablet two times a day.

and most of us prefer cyproheptadine for an appy stimulant ( many vets try to give you mirtzapine instead)
I was able to get action with just a crumb of the cypro..... the mirtz often is too much ( was for mine) and we nicknamed it meowzapine because
they keep wanting to eat and beg constantly even tho she just ate. It didn't stop even tho' she just ate.
that's why i preferred the cypro.

this combo might make a huge difference in her appetite.

does she ask for food, but then when you put it in front of her she sniffs and turns away ( maybe even a little lip smacking) ....
that's a sign of nausea and it's very subtle.
 
No diarrhea or nausea now. I do have anti-nausea meds on hand if needed. Weight stays low despite forced feedings and sub q's. Been a mixed bag with Cypro and appetite.

She wants to eat but won't though she did nibble at some food with Forti Flora that she hasn't touched in a month. She hardly ate any of it, though.

Has anyone had luck with tuna water?
 
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That usually works with Mitz. Just make sure it doesn't have salt added. Does Bonnie like chicken or turkey broth? When I don't have time to make any, I get Pacific brand bone broth (no salt added). It's something else that always seems to get Mitz's attention when she decides she doesn't like anything else, especially if I warm it slightly. Another thing that's working (at the moment anyway) is a little bit of leftover people salmon (salt & pepper rinsed off). I can actually get her to eat her own food if I top it with a little salmon.
Good luck & hope your baby feels better (and hungry!) soon,
Joan
 
I doubt it. With her IBD issues, it's challenging finding food she can tolerate.
 
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you might try.
you want them to keep eating as much on their own as you can.....
i resorted to odd things... but no carbs , just protein.
scrambled egg, deli meat, fried chicken with the breading peeled off ( most cats love fried chicken)
shredded monterey jack cheese or cheddar or parmesan and my girl hated beef cat food but she loved my cooked roast.

obviously if she is sensitive to chicken, avoid egg and chicken.

I never figured out what bothered mine.
the only novel protein that she had never had was kangaroo but she tired of it after 3 weeks. Now I hear there is goat.
 
Bonnie has been eating duck for a long time and loved it. Chicken has always been a problem for her and I think eggs would, too. Turkey less so. She didn't tolerate venison or rabbit so I am not sure she'll go for kangaroo or goat. Plus, I haven't seen it around locally.

Sounds like you are a good cook if Shadow loved your cooked roast :)
 
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Cat Ma said:
The vet insists some UTIs can have a lot of urine in it. I seem to recall reading somewhere where that can be the case.
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I think this is possible but rare, unless the infection is also affecting the kidneys (https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virt...at-behavior/medical-causes-house-soiling-cats ), which is why I was asking if it seems like it's resolved. My understanding is that having UTI increases risk for kidney infection; so it's good to make sure it's gone. Some vets run another C&S after the antibiotics are finished, which I always feel mixed about because of the extra stress for the cat. Anyway, please let us know how she's doing! Hopefully completely back to normal on all fronts!
 
From your link the one that best describes what Bonnie has would be a kidney infection.
 
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Cat Ma said:
From your link the one that best describes what Bonnie has would be a kidney infection.
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Ugh, I hope not. Back inJanuary the vet wasn't sure if Marshmallow had a UTI or kidney infection so she had to have AB for 6 weeks (apparently they need AB longer if it's a kidney infection). Bonnie is so sensitive to meds that it would be rough if she had to have AB for that long.

What is the next step? Wait for the last round of AB to clear her system then take her in for a culture if she's not back to normal by then?
 
I'm glad you don't need to put her back on AB. Does she have any regular difficulties with nausea? Low-level Nausea was a problem for Marshmallow. (Is so, Pepcid or Ondansetron would help.) I'm just trying to think of reasons she won't eat much on her own. Paws crossed she continues to get better.
 
She rarely vomits now unless it's a hairball. She ate better last night but by morning but she doesn't keep on the weight. Not clear what is going on. The only thing I can point to is that she is still passing more urine than normal.
 
I've been giving her fluids. She still voids excessive amounts of urine by the next morning. She's not drinking excessive amounts of water. The latest serum and urine panels are normal but I am going to have her evaluated further.
 
Yes. Bonnie's kidney functioning are all still within normal limits but clearly something is going on. The more fluids I give, the more she voids.
 
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So do not increase fluids unless she is actually dehydrated. Do what the vet prescribed and monitor using the scruff and gum tests in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools.
Hyperthyroidism may cause excessive urination. Some other endocrine problems besides diabetes mellitus can do it, too.
 
Her T4 levels were normal. What other tests may be helpful in confirming thyroid/endocrine issues? Giving fluids, per vet's orders, when dehydrated. I've gotten good at the scruff and gum tests.
 
Speckles had partial diabetes insipidus. It's considered very rare in cats. If you want to test for it, do not do the water deprivation test. The desmopressin trial is just as accurate and a more gentle way to test than the water deprivation test. But before you go down that road, what's Bonnie's urine specific gravity? If it's not a certain level of dilute, there's no point in testing yet. (Also, what are the kidney values?)
Sorry I've been MIA. I was traveling. I really hope she feels better asap!
 
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Results in and worse than I had hoped. Bonnie is in the early stages of CKD. I am at a loss for words. I had an CKD cat and it was the hardest thing I had to deal with. Now I have an IBD/CKD cat. I'd take FD any day over this.
 
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