? frustrated with lack of response from Evo dry

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Carol & Murphy (GA)

Carol & Murphy (GA)

Member Since 2015
Hi everyone- I need advise - I'm still trying to regulate Murphy diagnosed about 5 weeks ago - he has never been able to tolerate any canned food over the 5 years I have had him) I got Evo dry about a week ago (the turkey), in high hopes of getting his sugars under better control, but that, even with a slight bump in Prozinc (from 1.5 to 2 units q 12 hrs) has not helped at all. Today his sugars are in the 500s - have no idea why - I did give an extra 0.5 unit 7 hrs after his last dose, and 5 hrs before his scheduled next dose for a blood sugar of 530 (I've not done this before) His curves shows that he peaks at 4-6 hrs. He is very active today with playing and running, but his urine output is up a bit. None to maybe trace ketones in urine . I am frustrated with the Evo - my plan was once he is stable, to introduce a novel protein canned food very, very slowly. He also started canned pumpkin a few days ago (about 1 tsp)- I think that is safe for diabetic cats and doesn't raise blood sugar level- is this correct?
 
Hi Carol. Evo dry turkey made my Squallie's BG shoot up - at least, that was the only thing that changed in his environment, and his BG went down again when I stopped feeding it. Look at his spreadsheet from 8/14 to 8/21, that's when he was eating the Evo dry turkey formula. I had better luck with their weight management formula, which I'm not sure they even make anymore. Young Again makes a zero-carb formula but it's very pricey if you need to feed it to more than one cat, and I have four!
 
Oh, no -- Evo was recommended as one of the two dry foods I could feed Murphy - and I just bought a 15 lb bag of it (only comes in 2 lb and 15 lb bag)
I wonder if others have had the same experience?
 
So far, everyone else I know who feeds Evo has had good luck with it, it just was not the right food for Squallie. I had to give my 15lb bag to a local rescue group, because he kept getting into it and snacking at will. (It took me a few days to figure this out, I couldn't figure out why his BG was still so high when I had stopped feeding the Evo - it never occurred to me he was helping himself to it, lol) He was a terrible dry food junkie, changing him over to canned has been a battle!
 
There's a saying on the board that Each Cat Is Different (ECID). You may have a cat that doesn't get great numbers on Evo. It is likely to be better than something with 30% calories from carbohydrates, though.
You may want to follow the ProZinc protocol to manage dosing increases. It is listed in the ProZinc forum.
 
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You are not alone in your experience. I too tried the EVO Turkey kibble and I had switched from a kibble with a whopping 35% carb load so I expected to see at least some decrease in her numbers. To my surprise and dismay, I saw no movement at all....better than an increase for sure but certainly not what I had hoped. Just wondering though, are you free feeding or measuring and portioning it out because the calorie count in the EVO is over 500 calories per cup. Amount being fed could be affecting your results.
 
Not free fed - he gets 1/4 cup Evo at 7 am and 7 pm - that's about the amount of calories he had been getting pre - dx
anyone know if canned pumpkin raises sugar levels? That's also something new in the last few days
 
I was only feeding Squallie 1/4 cup Evo once a day. I bought a bag of YA, it seemed to raise his BG, as well. However I did use it to supplement his wet diet, albeit in very small amounts, and the manufacturers say to only feed YA, and to free-feed it. With four cats, I couldn't afford to do that ($30 for a 4lb bag). Squallie apparently just can't eat dry food without it raising his BG *shrug*.
 
I have just started trying Instinct Raw chicken, I'll see how that goes, so far so good. My vet does not recommend it because of the risk of salmonella, but he's okay with me trying it if I want to.
 
Carol,
It would give you some great data if you'd do a curve - maybe this weekend? Then you see how this dose is really working. You've gotten some decent mid cycle numbers. I wonder if he bounces up at the end of the cycle or if the dose is too little and wears off before +12. More data will help you figure that out.
 
I tried EVO. Smokey had digestive issues from it. Is boiled chicken an option for you?

Depending on where you bought it they might refund you even if it's open. I know petsmart and pet supply plus will if you have receipt you'll get cash, without receipt store credit. I just exchanged it for the canned food.
 
Squalliesmom said:
I have just started trying Instinct Raw chicken, I'll see how that goes, so far so good. My vet does not recommend it because of the risk of salmonella, but he's okay with me trying it if I want to.
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I tried that also. I remember they changed the formula and added some coating. My cats didn't like it then and it was hard to find the "original" even though the still made it. I remember contacting the manufacturer about it.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Carol,
It would give you some great data if you'd do a curve - maybe this weekend? Then you see how this dose is really working. You've gotten some decent mid cycle numbers. I wonder if he bounces up at the end of the cycle or if the dose is too little and wears off before +12. More data will help you figure that out.
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Thanks very much for the suggestion - I'll do a curve this weekend - when I did it in his two previous doses (1 unit and 1.5 units) - nadir was at 4-6 hrs, then went up after that - his 500 numbers at mid cycle today threw me for a loop
 
woodsywife said:
I tried EVO. Smokey had digestive issues from it. Is boiled chicken an option for you?

Depending on where you bought it they might refund you even if it's open. I know petsmart and pet supply plus will if you have receipt you'll get cash, without receipt store credit. I just exchanged it for the canned food.
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I got it from Amazon. But I really don't know what to feed him if I can't use Evo and before I can get some Young Again - he's not stable enough to try canned food again (I don't think I can afford a day or two of him vomiting and not eating, as he predictably does after a few days eating canned food even just a little canned food)
 
I was feeding Evo with no problems, Goofs numbers stayed low. It took me about 4-5 weeks to transition him to mostly wet, even a teaspoon too much wet and he'd vomit. Apparently Evo dry's carb count went up from 8.4 to 12, which is a little higher than recommended, but still way lower than most other dry food. I'm think I'm going to keep feeding it as I have 6 cats and they all like it. I'm going to call Evopet on Monday, they're not very fast with their email responses, and see if I can get some info.
 
Have you tried baking some canned food dry like a cracker? The home will smell like cooking cat food, but if it gets dry enough, maybe it won't be as much of a problem. You use a baking sheet or jelly roll pan, spread the food out thinly, and use a temp given for crackers. Stir often and check the dryness (I have no idea of how long it will take!).
 
I like the idea, but I think the smell might send me over the edge as I have really tough time with the smell of canned cat food. I don't know how they can eat that stuff! :eek:
 
Carol C said:
I got it from Amazon. But I really don't know what to feed him if I can't use Evo and before I can get some Young Again - he's not stable enough to try canned food again (I don't think I can afford a day or two of him vomiting and not eating, as he predictably does after a few days eating canned food even just a little canned food)
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Try calling the company, maybe they can do something.

Regarding the chicken, I mean a fresh chicken breast tender or cutlet. Boil it when cool break it into pieces.
 
BJM said:
Have you tried baking some canned food dry like a cracker? The home will smell like cooking cat food, but if it gets dry enough, maybe it won't be as much of a problem. You use a baking sheet or jelly roll pan, spread the food out thinly, and use a temp given for crackers. Stir often and check the dryness (I have no idea of how long it will take!).
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What a great idea! I never would have thought to do that!
 
What about Tiki Cat? They have mostly low carb canned food, but it's not like the usual cat food, looks more like human food. I use the chicken in consomme', it looks and smells just like shredded chicken breast in broth.
 
EVO raised Billy's BG about 100 pts. Young again zero carb didn't. You could try raw or freeze dried raw. I was able to get samples of primal freeze dried raw at pet stores so I could try it before commiting to a bag.
 
Yes indeed I did attempt to bake as well as dehydrate canned food. The dehydrator wasn't too bad but baking left a stench in the house (despite stove ventilation fan, windows open and air freshener) that lasted for at least two days and not one of my three fur balls would even try it. I even went to the trouble of using a cake decorator bag with a tip to extrude something resembling kibble the size they like! Bake cat food at your own risk of asphyxiation!:woot:
 
does freeze dry raw decrease the risk of salmonella and the like? I don't know what it is about canned food that Murphy can't tolerate (all brands, flavors) does Tiki Cat only make canned? Right now, I decided to feed him 1/4 cup twice a day of a mixture of Evo, Purina D/M dry, and Royal Canin glycobalance until I can get some Young Again or figure out what to do. I do have a can of Royal Canin Venison that I will introduce very, very slowly but I'd rather wait until he has been stable in case it doesn't work.
 
Carol C said:
does freeze dry raw decrease the risk of salmonella and the like? I don't know what it is about canned food that Murphy can't tolerate (all brands, flavors) does Tiki Cat only make canned? Right now, I decided to feed him 1/4 cup twice a day of a mixture of Evo, Purina D/M dry, and Royal Canin glycobalance until I can get some Young Again or figure out what to do. I do have a can of Royal Canin Venison that I will introduce very, very slowly but I'd rather wait until he has been stable in case it doesn't work.
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Purina D/M dry has very high carbs, something like 30 - 31%, I was told. I know when I took Squallie off it he went from needing 7u twice a day down to 1u 2x daily. I don't think Tiki Cat makes a dry food, I'm not sure, though. Some of their canned food has rice, or is not intended to be a complete meal, so you have to read the labels. I use plain chicken in consomme', it looks and smells exactly like chicken breast you'd boil and shred yourself, at home. I also use the tuna, but only 2 of my cats are fish fans, so I don't use it as often.
 
Squalliesmom said:
Purina D/M dry has very high carbs, something like 30 - 31%, I was told. I know when I took Squallie off it he went from needing 7u twice a day down to 1u 2x daily. I don't think Tiki Cat makes a dry food, I'm not sure, though. Some of their canned food has rice, or is not intended to be a complete meal, so you have to read the labels. I use plain chicken in consomme', it looks and smells exactly like chicken breast you'd boil and shred yourself, at home. I also use the tuna, but only 2 of my cats are fish fans, so I don't use it as often.
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I just looked at the Janet & Binkey's dry food chart on this site and it said Purina DM dry has 13% carbs. I wonder if I am reading that correctly
 
Carol C said:
I just looked at the Janet & Binkey's dry food chart on this site and it said Purina DM dry has 13% carbs. I wonder if I am reading that correctly
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That could be right, I am only going by what I was told so I can't say for sure, but I DO know Squallie's BG went down A LOT when I took him off of the D/M dry. But ECID (Every Cat is Different), Squallie may be more sensitive to carbs than some cats. :):)
 
Is that by weight % or by calorie %? We go by the calorie percentage here; I think Janet did too. The list at Cat Info may have that.
 
need help - I have realized that I am giving Murphy too many calories with Evo - he should be getting no more than 200 calories a day, and I've been giving him probably between 250-275. I just checked his 4 hr post Prozinc (should be close to his nadir) and it is 535 again (was this way two days ago) I did a curve yesterday (see spreadsheet) - his pre-shot was 109 (no insulin given) but three hours after he ate, it shot up to over 500 so I gave his insulin immediately and did a curve which showed response and his blood sugars remained in mid 300s all day (good control for him). Have no idea why his numbers are what they are today His urine is negative to trace ketones --acting, playing drinking water perfectly normal. Don't know if I should give him a drop of insulin now or just wait another 7 hrs until his next shot is due- seems like a long time to wait. I was going to start very tiny amounts of single protein canned today, but not sure what to do now
 
That is an interesting cycle. That he would jump up to the blacks at +15 isn't a huge surprise as he had no insulin that am. (Good call!) Today could be either because of a wonky day yesterday and he is still reeling. Or it may be the food issue. I think Purina DM dry is 30% carbs; Purina DM wet is 13%. Some of the other foods like Royal Canin (especially if the dry) can be very high carb. Check the link BJ gave you - it is more current than Janet and Binky's list. In fact, read the entire website. She has dealt with some very difficult cats who didn't want to transition to wet and she has some great ideas.Dry foods are at the very bottom of her list. If he is eating high carb, jumping into the blacks would not be unusual.

That said, he has to eat. If he were mine, I would keep working on finding something he wants to eat that is a reasonable carb count. If that is proving difficult and he will only eat high carb at this point, then you may need to increase the insulin to compensate. (not ideal at all)

No, I wouldn't give any insulin now. You could give it a little earlier tonight if he is still rising. You could shoot at +11 tonight and +13 tomorrow and stay on schedule.
 
thanks so much, Sue - I did read the catinfo website - I really want to get him off dry, but in the 5 years I have had him (pre-pre diabetes), he's never been able to tolerate any brand/flavor of canned food - he will definitely eat it, prefers it in fact, but like clockwork, after 2-3 days (even with slow introduction) he will have a day or two of vomiting & not eating and then goes back to only dry. I was going to try introducing a single protein slowly (venison Royal Canin) -all the single protein canned foods I could find are not low in carbs - if anyone knows one, please let me know). So in the meantime, should I stick to Evo but at lower amount? Poor boy - he's so hungry I can't feed him just 1/6 cup twice a day - he will be so unhappy. Does anyone know if bonito flakes are okay to feed and if it is high/low in calories?
 
I Have read Nature's Variety has single and novel protein low carb foods. And Stella and Chewy's has dehydrated and (I think regular) raw. Bonito flakes are a great snack, no carb but not a good diet. You might start another thread, explain his issues and ask for novel , single protein foods.
 
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