bounce help

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Kristin & Scout

Kristin & Scout

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I was told that Scout could be bouncing since I was shooting at too low of a BG level... How long would it take for those numbers to correct themselves? The vet suggested that I shoot consistently at .5 units (she said she thinks he is going to be come transient soon, but I'm not getting my hopes up), but I'm not sure for how many cycles. He has been in the 400's the last couple days. I'm struggling and frustrated and I don't want him to be uncomfortable if I'm not giving him enough insulin.
 
Can you get some mid cycle numbers this weekend? My guess would be he needs more insulin, but it is always possible that he is dropping low and bouncing back up, and more insulin will make that worse. Once you make sure he is not dropping (your one mid cycle didn't look like it, you could look at increasing to one unit for a few cycles and then if that is not enough, then 1.25
 
yes I have a few times. The coloring on the side of the strip bottle is weird and hard to match though. it always comes back somewhere between negative and trace
 
Well ... I may not be the one to ask, but when Bat-Bat's were at trace level (early in treatment), my vet told me that a trace level is "nothing to fret" about. That said, others can probably weigh in with more info for you ... (Am I mistaken, or did Scout have a dental recently? Gah, sometimes it's hard to keep track of who's done what!:confused:)
 
Kristin & Scout said:
yes! scout just had his dental a couple weeks ago
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Ha, my memory's not as bad as I thought.;) Just throwing this out there: Is a possibility that he has some inflammation going on in his mouth ... sometimes the rigors of the actual procedure can cause that. Did he have any extractions @ that time? Did the vet put him on antibiotics?
 
no extractions, but he did have a mild case of gingivitis before his cleaning. I just looked at his gums and they don't look red or inflamed, but there is is a darker line along the teeth? i'll attach a picture (ignore the food in his teeth haha)
IMG_6676.JPG
 
Wow, I'm impressed that you got that photo! (If I attempted this with Bat, I'd need a both stitches & a pt. of blood.:nailbiting:) I don't know Kristin ... it could just be that he's still in bouncy mode; but you have held him at six cycles (including this one) @ 0.50U, so I'd be inclined to say he may need more insulin. One other idea I have though: Maybe he's sensitive enough to any increases/decreases that going up or down by a half-unit could be a little too much for him? If his PMPS hasn't come down some tonight, you might want to try only an increase of 0.25U. Maybe a more subtle dose adjustment could help keep him from bouncing? Also, how close to mid-cycle are you? Could you get another test in now?
 
Didn't know what time that +3 was taken today (we're in the same time zone).

ETA: Forgot to say I thought his gums look pretty darned good from viewing the photo ...
 
Robin&BB said:
Wow, I'm impressed that you got that photo! (If I attempted this with Bat, I'd need a both stitches & a pt. of blood.:nailbiting:) I don't know Kristin ... it could just be that he's still in bouncy mode; but you have held him at six cycles (including this one) @ 0.50U, so I'd be inclined to say he may need more insulin. One other idea I have though: Maybe he's sensitive enough to any increases/decreases that going up or down by a half-unit could be a little too much for him? If his PMPS hasn't come down some tonight, you might want to try only an increase of 0.25U. Maybe a more subtle dose adjustment could help keep him from bouncing? Also, how close to mid-cycle are you? Could you get another test in now?
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Ditto, I could never get a photo of Bubba's mouth like that! But, isn't Scout a model for Kristin? He's used to the camera. ;)
 
I'm here, Kristin, saw the +7. I'm just sitting here studying Scout's SS, & gonna back & look at some of your older threads in a minute ...
 
Hmmm. It appears that - in general - he bounces quite a bit whenever there's a dose change, period. Then I was looking at 8/30 & 8/31 in particular and I think the dose adjustments of anywhere from a half-unit to a full unit may be causing him to bounce & then stay high & flat.
I'm really thinking you might try an increase only to 0.75U tonight, but would need you to monitor his #s some tonight (& we've not been seeing much in the way of night cycle #s on him anyway). A drag, I know ... as requires alarm-setting & maybe even some :coffee::coffee::coffee:, but we just really haven't seen much of what his body's doing during that pm cycle.

One other thing: Can you get a weight on him for me?
And can you remind me of what & when he's eating currently, and his total intake (ozs) over 24 hrs?
 
He's eating FF Classics, three 3 oz cans daily (1 1/2 AM, 1 1/2 PM). an occasional freeze dried treat. only feeding him twice daily, no mini meals.

I'll get back to you on his weight. the scale is buried somewhere in the garage, but i'll go out and look for it tonight.
 
You may want to try cutting back just a wee bit on his daily rations ... perhaps to 1-1/3 can each meal, rather than 1-1/2.
 
okay! will that little amount of food make a difference? he's just so demanding every meal time! you'd swear he hadn't eaten for an entire week
 
Kristin & Scout said:
okay! will that little amount of food make a difference? he's just so demanding every meal time! you'd swear he hadn't eaten for an entire week
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Well that's his diabetes "talking" ... once he's regulated a little more, that "I'm starving to death" routine will start letting up some (but maybe not entirely; Bat-Bat will always be VERY enthusiastic about eating:p).

I would rather you do a ration reduction gradually though, and here's why: You've just slightly increased his insulin; it's better to do the redux on total daily rations, gradually, too - as both the insulin + less food can bring his #s down further. (What appears to be a really small amount of food to us is more to a cat's body.) We also don't want him to drop weight too quickly; really rapid weight loss is too stressful on a cat's organ systems.

So I'd do 1-1/3 cans twice/day for a about 7-10 days, then try going to 1-1/4 cans twice/day. That would mean he ends up down to 2-1/2 cans/day. (I have a feeling that Scout could be good at more like 12.5 lbs.; you ultimately want him slender, rather than at "medium" weight. (But not emaciated; i.e., that "skin & bones" look like we sometimes see by the time a kitty's finally diagnosed with diabetes.) What do you think?

You'll want to weigh him daily while you're doing this, too. Try to do it at the same time each day, like right before a meal or in the middle of the day, or near bedtime. (This way the tally won't be affected by a bellyful of food!;))
 
(Sorry I took so long to past the above. A neighbor stopped by unexpectedly with an adorable 4-month-old puppy, so I was distracted while getting my "doggie fix!")
 
he's kinda a really long cat... he looks thin right now (in my opinion). he has these things on him that i call "doofle dangles"- they're like flabs of excess skin on the sides of his belly that sway in the wind when he trots along lol he's had them even when he was near 20 lbs. i'll try lowering his rations though (it'll save me $$ :D) but i already felt like i wasn't feeding him enough.

i eyeballed .75 units tonight and just took his +3 and he was already lower than he was all day!
 
Wow, that's great that he's dropped to 351 by +3; go, Scout!:cat:
Funny that you mentioned Scout's "doofle dangles" - Bat has the same thing! (She used to be more than 18 lbs. at one point.) My vet told me that's called an "inguinal flap." She even had that when she was a kitten. I like the sound of doofle-dangles way better, though.:D

It was really hard for me to get used to Bat-Bat being a svelte girl - I kept asking my vet, "Don't you think she should weigh more like 12 or 12.5 lbs?" He said, "No, Robin. With a diabetic cat, slender really is a better weight for her, and I'd rather she not go beyond 11 pounds. (She's a long cat, too, btw. Looks like a mini-panther!) So I guess what I'd tell you, as you're looking at Scout, is: As long as his hip bones and back bone aren't protruding & his rib cage isn't plainly sticking out, being a slim-jim type may not be such a bad idea. (Do you have that body condition chart? I can't recall if I'd sent that to you ...) I also have a different one to look at, if that would help you at all.
 
I would raise the dose, Kristin.this is your second cycle on one unit, right? Maybe do one unit again tonight as it's overnight and then tomorrow, 1.25, if you can only get a nadir.1.5 if you can monitor carefully. 1.5 worked well on pinks and reds before while lowering the dose on yellows worked good. I think the issue was staying too long on one dose. He looks like he needs a sliding scale, with more insulin for the higher ranges and less for the lower. If he drops more tonight and is lower for amps tomorrow, advice revision needed.

I think you were testing for ketones, right? If you get more than a trace, ever, you need to hit the vet. He is still eating well? Adding water to his food will help with any dehydration, if you aren't doing that already. Not lethargic? Still eating well?

I am sorry. I lost track of you. I think we went down too far and stayed there too long. But it should only take a couple cycles to get it back.
 
no, not lethargic. sleeping as usual throughout the day, just seems a little off.

yes i test for ketones when i'm able to catch him in the litter box. still eating well, was drinking slightly more when i was only giving him .5- i noticed i was needing to fill his water bowl more often, but it seems to have slowed down as of now.

I just started with 1 unit last night and this morning. too soon to up it tonight? I feel like the sliding scale messed everything up for me- or i didn't do it right. i shot when i shouldn't have and didn't realize it. it's all so frustrating that my effort to help him isn't working!
 
Let'S see what he looks like tonight and tomorrow morning. With high numbers, you can up the dose every 3 cycles.

He does bounce around but it makes sense to me that the same dose that works for a 200 just won't do as much for a 400. We can work with the bounces; I'd just like to see him down mid cycle.

Kirsten, you are working hard at something that is complicated. I wrote this earlier for Lucy - maybe it will help.

The important thing is that you are working to keep him in good safe ranges by testing him regularly. I think one of the hardest aspects of this sugar dance is to understand that insulin is a hormone, not medicine. So you can't think of it as I get a headache, I take an aspirin and it goes away in 30 minutes, every time. Instead either think of a teen age girl or a post menopausal woman. It is a variable process - different on different days, always a surprise, not predictable and certainly not results that can be applied to another other teenage girl or women going through menopause. Throw in Maybe he's having a difficult time with a BM one his tummy is feeling off or he saw a squirrel outside.... We'd like to think we can get our heads around this thing, but it is a moving target. We just do the best we can, on any given day.

There's my pep talk for today. The thing that you did for him is not to give up when you got the diagnosis. Instead you are pedaling as fast as you can. Many people have a diabetic cat put to sleep. Anyone who decides to treat him instead is a hero in my book!
 
thank you :') it really means a lot to me.

my world revolves around Scout- he's my soulcat. the best pet i've ever had and i can't imagine giving up on him
 
Hi Kristin! I just wanted to chime in and say I agree with Sue. About the dosing and about you doing a great job.

You say you can't imagine giving up on him and I get that...but think of all the people who DO give up on their cats. They hear diabetes and instead of trying to help, they put them to sleep or give them to shelters. You got the diagnosis and said I will help you. That means everything.

You're doing what you can with what data you have...that's all any of us can do. Don't lose heart! You're doing great!
 
you guys. this cat is going to be the death of me. i just got back home and found scout devouring a box of cereal. i don't know how much more i can possibly scout-proof my kitchen. i'm going to have to start crate training him like a dog! :banghead:
 
All right...it's time for your kitchen to become a bomb shelter! Scout's too sneaky for his own good!
 
Kristin & Scout said:
you guys. this cat is going to be the death of me. i just got back home and found scout devouring a box of cereal. i don't know how much more i can possibly scout-proof my kitchen. i'm going to have to start crate training him like a dog! :banghead:
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Oh, Kristin ... I feel your pain! It can be so enormously frustrating when you have a "chow-hound" kitty!

I literally have to always check the floors (thanks to my SO's bad habit of walkabout snacking), make certain cabinet doors are tightly closed, trash bin is secured, any dishes/pots/pans have zero food scraps in/on them after dinner, etc. because (even now that she's well-regulated), "Ms. Vacuum Face" will find any little thing that resembles food!:banghead: While I realize this lifelong bad habit of hers is due to her nearly starving to death as a feral kitten when I rescued her @ 1 month of age, knowing the cause doesn't make dealing with her day-to-day any easier.:rolleyes:

So I will echo @Rachel here: Don't lose heart! You're doing great!
(Hang in there, Kristin ... it really does get better in time. :bighug::bighug::bighug:)
 
Kristin & Scout said:
you guys. this cat is going to be the death of me. i just got back home and found scout devouring a box of cereal. i don't know how much more i can possibly scout-proof my kitchen. i'm going to have to start crate training him like a dog! :banghead:
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OMG! That is crazy!! I thought Bubba was a pig-face but, Scout is leading the pack!
 
what should I do for Scout when his numbers go crazy because of the heat? the AC has stopped working and I feel like it's affecting his numbers because they've gone back really high
 
You follow your guidelines as best you can.
Dampen the paw pads with water which will help cool him.
Maybe set up a swamp cooler - hang a towel so that it is just into some water and blow a fan over it.
Or get some bricks of ice to cool the place and blow a fan over that.

Have you got a basement? They tend to be cooler.
He may be stressed from the move still. Will he play for you at all?


(Was already on it!)
 
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I've tried almost everything- homemade AC units out of ice chests and blocks of ice, but he doesn't like staying in my room all day and I can't lock him in away from his litter box and water. I'll try dampening his paw pads hopefully that will help but the weather in SoCal is brutal right now. luckily were high 80's today opposed to the last few days have been triple digits
 
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