Wessleigh's thread (newbie diabetic Maine Coon)

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Bonzo

Bonzo

Member Since 2015
My name is Bryan aka Bonzo. Kids and nice people usually call me Bonz. People that I've upset call me hey @$$# or Bryan. My Pud is Wessleigh a 7 year old Maine Coon with a strong resemblance to the cat chariactures in the Larson calendars. My preliminary exposure in this fine forum was in the "Welcome Threads" .http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...dy-wessleigh-wes-to-his-close-friends.138446/
Please forgive my slow start, things have been hectic.

Wess was diagnosed as diabetic 25 Mar 2015 and was immediately taken off all dry food. He also was pretty badly congested and was sneezing mucous with blood spots. Dx for this was upper resp and was put on antibiotics. I've gone through all of this over on the welcome page but to recap.

Wess was started on one unit Caninsulin every 12 hours, soon to be upped to 2 units. I was told that that vet Clinic used Caninsulin. I was given very little information or even places to look for information. The several vets at my clinic didn't work well together (IMO)

I discovered several feline diabetic sites and read as much as I could absorb.

I procured a Bayer Contour NXT Glucometer and started using it. I researched low carb foods and feed Wess FF Classic pates and Go pate.

Following some negative issues I decided to change veterinary clinics and become as active as I could in my feline friends recovery. The new clinic encourage testing Wes and offer whatever insulins handle the issues.

Wess had a relapse on the upper resp infection after the antibiotics ran out (2 different courses). He's on another course of antibiotics and I'm giving him Lycine twice daily with his insulin. the insuline has been upped to 2.8 units every 12 hours. I also had a blood panel done so we knew where we stood.

I'm going easy on the BG pokes until he settles down. I am doing mini curves and will look at which insulin will suit his condition when he's more stable and his stress level is down. His congestion is subsiding and he doesn't sound like Sidney Snuffleufigus. His weight is stabilizing as well. (5.9Kg or 13 lbs)
 
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A fellow Maine Coon lover (see left <) is wishing Wessleigh well.
And good for you, Daddy, for switching vets when yours wasn’t working out.
 
Thanks for the comments. I'm slowly organizing Wess's information because stuff is changing. I heard some wheezing today which means we have complications with Wess's upper resp infection..
One of the Vets in the new clinic did a thorough work up and when done asked me if I had noticed any changes in Wessleigh's vocalizing. I told her I had and it was akin to a teen males voice change. Her feeling was that Wess may have issues around his vocal chords and likened it to what a human might experience with tonsils. Last time he became congested the poor little critter couldn't breath through his nose and had a horrible wheeze.

My thoughts go to a culture to see what we are dealing with. We've already had the blood panel. The scope if necessary will be expensive but worth it if it makes his life more comfortable

On the plus side Wess's demeanour has improved and he seems to be not under the same stress. He's more accepting of his ear pokes and injections. He even takes his Lycine with a minimum of human digits bitten off.
 
Best of luck with the vets getting Wess's wheezing and infection, or whatever it is, under control.
I'm glad he's settling in to the pokes and shots. You sound like a real good Dad.
 
I upped Wessleigh's Lysine paste from 2 x 1 ml to 2 x 2ml and the wheezing stopped. Am I imagining the effects of Lysine? I've always looked at supplements with a jaundiced eye, kinda like snake oil. This stuff really works and it's reasonable.

I'm still careful about poking Wess too much, he seems to be getting used to it. It feels good when I can hit blood on the first try and he isn't stressed. I'm also finding I can do a BG poke or an insulin injection without holding him down. I try and do it by myself. We still need to gently restrain Wess to get the Lysine into his cake hole via a syringe. He laps it up once it's put in his mouth. I have big hands and when I cradle the boy he complies with a minimum of struggle. It seems to work best when the wife applies the syringe.
 
What is the concentration of the paste? How many mg per ml?
Some say 500 mg/day is the dose and other 1000 mg/day.
I say I give about 750 mg/day
 
Each pump of Enisyl=F oral paste = 1ml or 250 mg of Lysine. Recommended dosage is 250-500mg twice daily. I started at 250 mg twice daily (500mg) and have upped it to 500mg x 2. I'll keep it there for a few days and drop back to 750 mg and see what happens. 500mg clearly wasn't enough. I'm amazed that this stuff works.
 
I use it for all of mine. Three of them really need it and I give it to the others as a preventative. I was surprised to that it works
 
My kitten Jackson, was sneezing more and more often, and I finally asked my vet for some Lysine. I got the chewable Lysine "treats", and he stopped sneezing almost instantly. It was weird how quickly it worked.
 
I cradle Wessleigh while holding his front paws and my wife injects some paste in his pie hole, or at least that's what we start out doing. Sometimes I wear the paste
 
Wess's condition was pretty rough when he was finally diagnosed with diabetes. Shortly after all of poking started he developed a pretty severe case of upper respiratory congestion. . I switched Vets because I perceived the level of care to be lacking. The new vet put him on an antibiotic and lysine. Now the snuffles are returning I've increased the Lysine doseage to max 1000 mg per day and I'm backing of on the pokes (BG blood samples)

The new Vet did a blood panel and suggested that if the condition persisted that they'd like to scope his throat. Apparently a cat is prone to some sort of growth on or around the voice box (vocal chords). the analogy used was the occurrence of tonsillitis in humans and the requirement that the offending scales be removed. This could well be a crock. Given the larcenous nature of mankind , I'm leery of everything . I thought that a culture might be a logical next step. the scoping and possible removal won't be cheap. Has anyone heard anything about this issue??? I value Wess's life but caution doesn't hurt

The previous vet missed the diabetes the first time around and was more interested in selling me dental work. At the time we mentioned that Wess was very thirsty and pee'd a whole bunch. It was one of his co-workers that discovered the diabetes although by that time Wess was in pretty bad shape.

The Lysine paste seems like a good idea as the cost isn't too bad. The stuff is made in Canada and quite reasonable locally. I could start our female pud on it as a prophylactic. His blood sugar seems fairly stable for now on caninsulin and rather than have too many issues stressing the old pud get the snuffleufegus syndrome in check first. It is amazing at how accepting he has become with all of the procedures. In time I'm hoping the associated stress comes down.
 
WessLeighs conjestion is getting worse. Not nearly as bad as it was without lysine but he's losing ground. what is the max lysine dose that's actually workable. He's getting 1000 MG per day in 4 does and has been at that dose for 48 hrs.

My next step is another course of antibiotics, a culture and/or letting the vet scope WessLeighs throat are for a growth on his vocal chords. Any thoughts?
 
Preservative free moisturizing eye drops. The eyes drain into the sinuses, so this may help them drain.
Discuss with vet if any type of decongestant would help if any swelling in the sinuses is present.
A culture would be good.
Is there any reason to think there is something wrong with the vocal cords?
 
When I had Wess in to see the new Clinic's Vets, the vet that did the examination felt there was a strong possibility of some sort of scaling on or around the vocal chords. The basis for this assumption was varying vocalization (like a teens voice change), the vet used a special stethoscope around the throat and sinuses and felt it was a possibility. The only way to look at this area is by scope and that's going to be pricey. I'm not convinced the congestion is centered in the voice box but I'm willing to authorize reasonable testing that would support a diagnosis.
The analogy was similar to tonsillitis in a child

I have my doubts but I am cautiously looking at all suggestions. I am not a vet but I'm a pretty good diagnostician. I've had a blood panel done and I've have dialogue with a second vet in the clinic. We know antibiotics caused the congestion to completely clear up but it returned after the course was complete. Lysine kept congestion at bay for a few days but finally lost ground. I have increased the dose in the past 48 hours. Wess becomes very agitated when poked. I have managed to inject him and give him lysine without a meltdown but for now ear pokes will be at a minimum.

My best defense against gouging is common sense. I'm wary because I've experienced some out and out mis steps. Wess's diabetes is under control at this point so his upper resp issues will take priority.
 
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Decongestants used for cats have rebound issues. You get 2 or 3 days and then a possible rebound which is usually worse than the original. The eye drops are a very good option but I want to get to the bottom of the root cause. Will any preservative free drop be OK any brands come to mind????

Thanks for the input. I'm off to pick up some more Lysine
 
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I use Systane preservative eye drops for myself.
And yes, it is only sympton relief, but it may buy you some time to evaluate what you want to do and to check around a bit.
Has he tested negative for FIV and FeLV?
 
@Bonzo -

A bit of a shot in the dark here. Have you done any tests for fungal problems? (Brainstorming here - no concrete reason for the suggestion.)
 
BJM said:
I use Systane preservative eye drops for myself.
And yes, it is only sympton relief, but it may buy you some time to evaluate what you want to do and to check around a bit.
Has he tested negative for FIV and FeLV?
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What do the letters represent?
 
He's been vacinated for eveything. Since the vets found out he's an indoor cat they cut back on one series
 
I'm pretty much at my wits end . My opinion of the whole veterinary "industry" isn't great. this isn't a refrigerator it's a living, feeling beings life. Wess's Diabetes is under control but he's congested big time. To make matters worse there seems to be no methodology, no work flow. It's throw darts at a board.

That said, what are the tests for any of this probable list of ailments, I'm at a total loss. Any help would be appreciated. I just want to keep these pirates honest and in the right direction.
Thanks
Bryan
 
Hi Bonzo,
So sorry to hear Wess is having such rough time of it! Poor little guy! I'm afraid everything you're dealing with is beyond my experience so I can't be of much help. Is another round of antibiotics a possibility? It might buy you some time to figure things out. Tagging some more experienced folks here who I don't think have replied here yet- @Marje and Gracie, @Meya14, @Wendy&Neko
Best of luck to you and Wessleigh!

Joan
 
Before you start another round of antibiotics, I would for sure try to get a culture done. There are so many different organisms that can cause non-specific upper respiratory problems in cats, that you really need to know what you are dealing with. My thought is if Abx aren't working, there are several fungal issues that can become chronic. Viral as well, such as feline herpes. If you do the culture after starting antibiotics, it won't be accurate.

Second thing I would ask for is a test for acromegaly. Overgrowth of tissues around the neck is a common symptom of acro, as is diabetes. There are others here experienced with this that maybe have some advice.

Third thing I would ask for if he's having difficulty breathing is nebulizer or inhaled treatments to help open his airways. These aren't going to fix the problem, but may make him more comfortable.
 
I think a culture is a good idea. In the meantime, perhaps your vet could prescribe an antihistamine for him like hydroxizine. Poor Wess...I hope he feels better soon.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I think a culture is a good idea. In the meantime, perhaps your vet could prescribe an antihistamine for him like hydroxizine. Poor Wess...I hope he feels better soon.
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The good news is Wess 's diabetes is stable. The bad news is his ongoing issues with URI or whatever it really is congesting him. Several Vets jumped to antibiotics before doing any testing
Benadryl is only available in 25mg coated tablets. The vet suggested a half tablet "might help". A very knowledgeable friend suggested a tad less as a trial. That said, I have read that a cut tablet presents a taste issue for a puddy cat so I'm looking for some empty capsules. That and a syringe full of tuna juice should get the job done. I have Wess on metacam right now to try and get him over the hump so I can get a culture done. He was given convenia before I was fully aware of all the associated issues.
My alternatives to help Wess breath were either prednisone or metacam (meloxicam). I was wondering about the effects of benedryl, Cyproheptadine and Cetirizine. Are there any others? Cyproheptadine apparently improves the appetite as well.

I realize that there are issues but we should all realize that there are many imperfect drugs in use for humans and animals. Nsiads screwed up quite a few in my generation who looked at them as a miracle drug. Prednisone is apparently ok for short term use with diabetics but I'm still a bit apprehensive about that one.

Wess had a mild bout with URI back when he came out of the SPCA shelter but only mild sniffles until tghis past march. He's been bunged up almost all of the time since he was diagnosed with diabetes. 4 months of this level of congestion is inhumane.
 
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Personally, I wouldn't use metacam. I'd probably tend towards using a steroid before I'd use metacam. Metacam has a black box warning for cats. Even tho his BG might go up a bit from prednisilone, you can give more insulin.

Again, I used hydroxizine (aka atarax) for years with an asthmatic cat. No side effects.
 
Meloxicam aka medicam has issues all around, not just cats. There are a lot of drugs that can have issues if taken for a prolonged period or by a patient that already has issues with their kidneys . For 3 doses I decided to take the chance. I don't think much of the majority within the veterinary community. Their profit seems to be the major motivator and common sense takes a back seat. I was backed into a corner by the application of convenia. Common sense tells me to find out what is caausing Wess's problems and a culture seems like a sensible approach. Problem is I have to wait out the convenia and hope Wess maintains the will to fight even after having to fight to breath for several months.

I've cut benadryl coated caplets and put them in gel caps which I'll administer (one 12 mg dose) when the wife gets home
 
Vegetable said:
@Bonzo did the congestion start before or after starting the insulin? If after maybe it could be an allergy or sensitivity to the insulin.
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Originally my vet misdiagnosed the diabetes. He became disheveled, unkept and was sneezing mucous and blood. She gave Wess a shot of convenia and he settled down withing a day or two. He seemed to respond well to the caninsulin. He remained free of congestion for about 14 days.
 
Maybe it might be worth checking to see if there is any problem due to fungal infection? If only to rule it out??
 
The whole current phase of Wessleigh's struggle is to buy him time so we can get a culture. I assumed possibly incorrectly that a culture would help identify whatever it is that's causing his problem. At some time I have to be able to assume that a vet or lab tech knows their behind from a sack of potatoes. Part of the problem seems to be that [people don't talk, share or even fully understand what is being communicated to them. This problem has reached epidemic proportions in The US and Canada
 
IF whatever is causing the breathing problems is a bacteria, then a culture and sensitivity needs to be done to decide for sure which bug is causing it and which antibiotic will kill that particular bacteria.

Sure hope they find the right drug for the right condition!
 
Meya14 said:
You may want to consider inhaled treatments, especially a bronchodilator, or antihisamines to buy time. These may help with the symptoms.
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Pilling is out of the question. Last 3 tries only one pill actually got injested. Liquids, no problem. I know people apply saline to the tear ducts but has anyone actually been able to spray salien up a cats nostril? Is atarax available over the counter, how is it injested or applied?
 
No, you can get inhalers with a spacer mask for cats. Albuterol for bronchdilators, and I believe there are inhaled antihisamines as well (ipratropium) which you can also find together in one inhaler combination. I've heard of the saline up the nose spray for cats with mucous, but I'd have 2 concerns: 1. My cats would murder me if I did this. 2. If it's a fungal infection, you could push that much further into the sinuses and increase the damage it causes to the bones/face.

You could get a baby-bulb type thing and try to suck the junk out if there's a lot of discharge.
 
There appears to be no discharge at all now, the apparent sniffles are still there with the licking action against the nose but eyes and nose are clear for the past day. This morning he was 6.3mmol/l so I gave no insulin. I gave him a taste of honey and fed him a few teaspoons of Fancy Feast. The last time I checked in the morning he was 17.5.
 
Has your vet ruled out allergies? Just a thought. We thought for months that Squallie had a URI, couldn't seem to shake it. Finally the vet put him on allergy meds, he was on them for two months but it cleared up almost completely. Now, six months later, he is starting to wheeze a little again but not bad enough to start him back on the meds yet.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
There is not way to calibrate a meter. You can compare it with the vet results.
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I worked with test equipment meters for 47 years. Comparison at mid, low and high ends of the scale could be construed as calibration, so long as the offset is computed. That suits my many years of instrumentation just dandy.

Just for giggles I checked the definition of calibrate.
verb
  1. mark (a gauge or instrument) with a standard scale of readings.
    • correlate the readings of (an instrument) with those of a standard in order to check the instrument's accuracy.
    • adjust (experimental results) to take external factors into account or to allow comparison with other data.
      synonyms: adjust, measure, set, graduate, correct
 
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I am guardedly optimistic that we have found a workable path to Wess's ailment. I realize that issues that Wess is dealing with can be lifelong.

Wess has started behaving like my old buddy, he's back on his vittles and showing spunk and attitude. It involves a different choice of medication and a different approach to treatment. I'll wait and see before I start jumping up and down.
 
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Wess continues to improve but he's still congested and if he can't smell it or taste it he doesn't want to eat it. I was giving him warmed tuna and whitefish pate aaaand even that wasn't enticing him. I asked the vet for an appetite stimulant and he provided me with 15 mg mirtazapine tablets cut into quarters. A small irregular shape pill isn't going down easily and the drug apparently has a bitter taste, so I packed the cut portion into a small empty gelatin capsule filled with parmesan cheese. The parmesan cheese give the cap weight and should he bite into it or break it the taste of the parmesan will hopefully entice him to swallow rather than spit it out. About 1.5 hours after pilling him he became a total pain and demanded food continually. It.s been 2 days so far and the original dose is still working. Thankfully his demands have fallen off to slightly above normal.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in. Your enthusiasm and ideas are well received.
 
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Hi Bonz,

Mirtazapine can be a very, very powerful appetite stimulant. I only gave it to Saoirse once and it wasn't pretty: ravening hunger; excessive purring; odd vocalisation; pupils like dinner plates; aggressive behaviour (and Saoirse's an extremely pacific creature). All that on 1/8 of a tablet. Our vet said to only give it every three days. I looked up the side effect profile and discovered it can induce serotonin syndrome (potentially life-threatening) so I never gave it to her again. I've also been prescribed mirtazapine myself for PTSD. Of the slew of meds that I've taken, mirtazapine was the harshest, and most unpleasant. I stopped taking it after three doses.

I went back to the vet and got cyproheptadine instead. It's much milder in its action and it doesn't have the risk of serotonin syndrome. Indeed, cyproheptadine is used to treat serotonin syndrome. A tiny dose - c. 1/8 of a 4g tablet for a 10lb cat - can be very effective. Larger doses can cause too much sedation (it's an anti-histamine) and somewhat depressed mood. It did the job of stimulating Saoirse's appetite well without turning her into a kitty Cujo.


Mogs
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