Now what?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bobbie And Bubba

Bobbie And Bubba

Very Active Member
I thought I was going to kill my cat shooting at 148 with .6u of insulin. Well, it's like I shot him water! He is 321 @+8.5. He's has gone consistently up all day. And, I doubt he will go down at +9 through 12. I What could I have done differently? Should I given him more at +2 when I saw that he was 253? I just feel like he must be feeling pretty badly going from 148 to 321 and if I give insulin now I will have to be shooting him at 3:30 AM everyday. I will shoot at 5pm and slowly get him back to 6am and 6 pm. Any ideas?
 
I am just getting ready to test Nicky for his PMPs. If he hasn't risen much, I may be in the same situation that you were in this morning. We shall see...........
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I think your .6 was just not enough this morning. That's fine. (If it had gone the other way and he'd hypoed, it would have been much worse). You'll get him back on track. Generally, he is doing very well.
Click to expand...

Thanks Sue. I just wish we all had magic wands..... So, is it a fair assumption that if he ever pulls a 149 AMPS that I can shoot it at the previous dose of 1.6?
 
There is a tight protocol promoted by another forum. We sometimes get beans come here who have tried it and don't understand why their cats are bouncing all over. One of their tenets that I really have trouble with is that they say if you are feeding low carb, your cat can't hypo. The only person I know who tried it was @Elizabeth and Bertie. She can tell you more.

You can be more aggressive with the dosing, Bobbie. Dosing at lower preshots and giving more insulin. That works for some cats and creates more bouncing for others. Look in the remission thread at the top of the page and you can see how some people were more aggressive than others. There is no right way to do this. Because I am advising about someone else's cat, I tend to be cautious and figure slow and steady is the best bet. But it doesn't tend to be the fastest route.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
There is a tight protocol promoted by another forum. We sometimes get beans come here who have tried it and don't understand why their cats are bouncing all over. One of their tenets that I really have trouble with is that they say if you are feeding low carb, your cat can't hypo. The only person I know who tried it was @Elizabeth and Bertie. She can tell you more.

You can be more aggressive with the dosing, Bobbie. Dosing at lower preshots and giving more insulin. That works for some cats and creates more bouncing for others. Look in the remission thread at the top of the page and you can see how some people were more aggressive than others. There is no right way to do this. Because I am advising about someone else's cat, I tend to be cautious and figure slow and steady is the best bet. But it doesn't tend to be the fastest route.
Click to expand...

Okay, I understand where your are coming from. I will reach out to Elizabeth and Bertie and see if she can enlighten me. I was readying some from another forum but I haven't had the nerve to try that protocol yet. It makes sense when you read it but because ECID I am reluctant but toying with it.....
 
Here's a way to visualize that other protocol. If you ever look at a brick wall, you often see the bricks offset exactly at the halfway point. They call it a running bond pattern. With that other protocol, you shoot after the dose is halfway used, which is roughly the nadir. This can result in shooting 4 times a day - not very convenient.
Also, too much insulin is too much insulin, no matter how it is given, so yes, you can hypo on that protocol.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I tend to be cautious and figure slow and steady is the best bet. But it doesn't tend to be the fastest route.
Click to expand...
Hi, Bobbie - I agree with Sue on this: Slow and steady, even though that requires wearing those patience pants a lot of the time. BJ made a very good point, too, about the other protocol. Of course, it's always up to you to decide which way you want to go ...

On the Main Forum thread (same title) regarding this, you'd written: Thinking part of the problem is he hunts and eats. Going to have to transition him to inside so I can control the calories/ insulin . Last night we got a mouse from him before he ate it.
You may actually see Bubba even out considerably once you've solved that little problem, which I already know you're planning to do. (Good girl!)

As for TR, I had done that with Lantus back in 2013, and I must say it was pretty nerve-wracking (even after I started doing it correctly.) Was so lucky to have found Dr. Rand's protocols for TR (on my own via a Google search) not too long after my vet in Colorado had me start Bat-Bat on Lantus; was then horrified to discover that I had been allowed to shoot her at such low #s in the beginning that I don't dare disclose them here. (Is a wonder I didn't kill my cat!) After I read through Rand's TR directives, I immediately began following those instead. (I had opened an account @ FDMB back then, but never started interacting with the membership because I had very limited access to the internet at my mountain location. Unfortunate!)

On ProZinc, I didn't get more aggressive with dropping my no-shot level down below 200 until Bat was at a really small dose - and even since then, I've had to monitor her carefully whenever she gets a shot. (Thank you, Sue, for all the guidance you provided earlier this year on dosing!)

So yeah, Bobbie, I'd recommend you stay the course and try to remain patient. It's been less than 2 months since you started Bubba on ProZinc, right? You're keeping great records - so just keep on keepin' on ... troubleshooting the small details as you go along, watching his patterns come more clearly into focus over time, and it will get better for you and Bubba. Really, it WILL. :bighug::bighug::bighug: - Robin
 
Robin&BB said:
Hi, Bobbie - I agree with Sue on this: Slow and steady, even though that requires wearing those patience pants a lot of the time. BJ made a very good point, too, about the other protocol. Of course, it's always up to you to decide which way you want to go ...

On the Main Forum thread (same title) regarding this, you'd written: Thinking part of the problem is he hunts and eats. Going to have to transition him to inside so I can control the calories/ insulin . Last night we got a mouse from him before he ate it.
You may actually see Bubba even out considerably once you've solved that little problem, which I already know you're planning to do. (Good girl!)

As for TR, I had done that with Lantus back in 2013, and I must say it was pretty nerve-wracking (even after I started doing it correctly.) Was so lucky to have found Dr. Rand's protocols for TR (on my own via a Google search) not too long after my vet in Colorado had me start Bat-Bat on Lantus; was then horrified to discover that I had been allowed to shoot her at such low #s in the beginning that I don't dare disclose them here. (Is a wonder I didn't kill my cat!) After I read through Rand's TR directives, I immediately began following those instead. (I had opened an account @ FDMB back then, but never started interacting with the membership because I had very limited access to the internet at my mountain location. Unfortunate!)

On ProZinc, I didn't get more aggressive with dropping my no-shot level down below 200 until Bat was at a really small dose - and even since then, I've had to monitor her carefully whenever she gets a shot. (Thank you, Sue, for all the guidance you provided earlier this year on dosing!)

So yeah, Bobbie, I'd recommend you stay the course and try to remain patient. It's been less than 2 months since you started Bubba on ProZinc, right? You're keeping great records - so just keep on keepin' on ... troubleshooting the small details as you go along, watching his patterns come more clearly into focus over time, and it will get better for you and Bubba. Really, it WILL. :bighug::bighug::bighug: - Robin
Click to expand...

Y'all are right. Thanks for the pep talk! I guess my frustration got the best of me. Those blues he was in on Aug 12 gave me such hope and then BAM. I know that you know that feeling with BB. Yes, Patience Pants. He started on insulin May 27 and I had him on for 13 days and took off to see if I could diet control. Started him back on insulin 6.16.15 and he's been on every since. My spreadsheet starts of the 23rd of June. So, yeah all together about 2 1/2 months with the 13 day break. Transitioning to indoors I think will help but is going to be so hard as Forrest is in and out and will not use the litter box; he prefers to go outside. I kept Bubba in last night after dinner but this AM I softened as he stood by the door crying after I had just let Forrest out. If Forrest would use the LB, I would just transition them both into house only cats. sigh. But thanks again for all the time, everyone!
 
Hi Bobbie @Bobbie And Bubba, regarding the other protocol, you may be interested to see a post I wrote earlier this year: Frodo - trying something different

And on the subject of hunting, Bertie used to hunt and eat prey, but I never found that it made a difference to his BG levels (those mice are wonderfully low carb...), but maybe it's an 'Every Cat Is Different' thing...?
However, due to his age I have begun to keep him indoors more. And what I'm doing at the moment is just keeping him indoors at night and letting him out first thing. He hates it when he realises he can't get out, but does settle down. And I make sure that when he comes in at night I reward him with favourite foods, and a grooming session. But I understand that it's harder for you if Bubba's brother won't use the litter box... Might he use it if you filled one with soil? Do you happen to know where his favourite pooping/peeing spots are? If so, you could even get some soil that smelled familiar. (With one of our previous cats I actually brought some of his poops indoors to 'christen' a litter tray with just in order to get him to use it...;):) )
.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Bobbie @Bobbie And Bubba, regarding the other protocol, you may be interested to see a post I wrote earlier this year: Frodo - trying something different

And on the subject of hunting, Bertie used to hunt and eat prey, but I never found that it made a difference to his BG levels (those mice are wonderfully low carb...), but maybe it's an 'Every Cat Is Different' thing...?
However, due to his age I have begun to keep him indoors more. And what I'm doing at the moment is just keeping him indoors at night and letting him out first thing. He hates it when he realises he can't get out, but does settle down. And I make sure that when he comes in at night I reward him with favourite foods, and a grooming session. But I understand that it's harder for you if Bubba's brother won't use the litter box... Might he use it if you filled one with soil? Do you happen to know where his favourite pooping/peeing spots are? If so, you could even get some soil that smelled familiar. (With one of our previous cats I actually brought some of his poops indoors to 'christen' a litter tray with just in order to get him to use it...;):) )
.
Click to expand...
Great ideas with the soil in the box and "christening" the litter. Thx! And I am so glad you said you never saw a difference with his BG numbers. I hate taking that activity away from him because he has so much wide open spaces to roam and as my hubby says, "it's exercise"! One friend told me of her diabetic cat that she never got regulated because he went outside and ate his catch as Bubba does. And I know they are low carb but how many extra calories does he get a day because of it. One day I got 2 mice away from him before he ate them. He is very proficient in the hunting department. We call him our "Redneck Hunter" And I am allowed to say that term because I am originally from the South. HA!
 
And thank you for the link about Frodo and Trying something different. I'm thinking this way to aggressive for me and more importantly for Bubba. Thanks for the time you spent to relay this info to me. :bighug:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top