08/06: Squallie Hypo Watch - AMPS 419, +3.5 86 - BG Rising OK

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Critter Mom said:
@Squalliesmom - When are you testing again? (Poor Squallie's ears ... felt so sorry for him when I read your post earlier. :( )
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I tested him again at 6:03 and he was at 157, haven't tested again since it seems he's on an up-swing, hate to keep pricking his ears, they're already red and a little swollen, poor baby :-(

Will test again pre-shot, if I don't like his numbers I'm not giving him any insulin.
 
BJM said:
Giving 4 units shouldn't drop him nearly as much, but I'd want to monitor around +3 to +4 for the likely nadir.
Dosing TID with the 12 units spread out actually might work as Vetsulin/Caninsulin lasts roughly 8-10 hours, so there'd be a bit of overlap to help keep the glucose from skyrocketing.
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Oh, I will be monitoring, don't worry!
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Lorraine,

Thank you very much for your reply. :bighug:

I can't stay the whole way through the cycle. My PTSD symptoms got a lot worse over the last few days so my GP has put me on beta blockers. I'm feeling really groggy. Would you be able to take over keeping an eye on Lucy?
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So sorry to hear that, Aine! I hope you feel better soon! Hugs for you and Saoirse!
 
Sounds like things are fairly stable, Lucy. Do you agree? If you do, I'll pop back to the first post and take down the 911 flag.
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Libby and Lucy said:
you know what I would do tonight? I would skip the shot, or at most give a teeny tiny shot so you can look for your other kitty without worrying about hypo. That is assuming Squallie isn't ketone prone, but you haven't mentioned that yet so I'm hoping that means he's not. He'll probably go high tonight, but he'll recover just as quickly.

One of our members recently used a pet detective to help find her missing cat. They did it all by email and phone. I'll see if I can find the info. He was within sight of her condo the whole time but was hiding and too scared to come out.
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Squallie doesn't seem ketone prone, thankfully. I think I'm going to give him a small dose to keep him from rocketing up, but low enough that I don't have to worry.
I'm very much afraid that my other kitty has fallen into serious misadventure and is no longer with us. He would have come home by now if he was able to. I feel like a bright light of my life is no longer burning. It's breaking my heart. He was a super special little man.
 
Critter Mom said:
Sounds like things are fairly stable, Lucy. Do you agree? If you do, I'll pop back to the first post and take down the 911 flag.
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Yes, I think we can manage for a while now. Thank you so much for "rallying the troops" to help me out! Means more to me than you can know :-) (I'm technologically challenged and don't know how to express hugs, except to just say it, so hugs to you and Saoirse!)
 
Squalliesmom said:
Yes, I think we can manage for a while now. Thank you so much for "rallying the troops" to help me out! Means more to me than you can know :) (I'm technologically challenged and don't know how to express hugs, except to just say it, so hugs to you and Saoirse!)
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We'll take the hugs any way they come, Lucy! :) I'll take down the 911 in a moment. (On the off chance you need it put back up again, ask one of the people here helping you to ask one of the mods to change the thread title to display 911 again.)
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Critter Mom said:
We'll take the hugs any way they come, Lucy! :) I'll take down the 911 in a moment. (On the off chance you need it put back up again, ask one of the people here helping you to ask one of the mods to change the thread title to display 911 again.)
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Thank you, I will :-)
 
Did your vet even look at your spreadsheet? NOTHING on that spreadsheet indicates that "lack of duration" is a problem. I realize that the overwhelming majority of people here would suggest a "longer lasting insulin" like one of the "L's" or Prozinc. And sure, they work great for most cats. But I can't see where anybody can examine your spreadsheet and conclude that Vetsulin isn't working, or that you aren't seeing good duration. It looks like you are seeing nadir at +6 or +7? That's better duration than I got with PZI.

It may be that you will switch insulin at some point. But you do that when the insulin you have is proven by your data to not be working.

I agree with the dose reduction. 4u is what I mentioned yesterday. But I DON'T agree with shooting every 8 hours. First, you are getting more than 8 hours from a dose now. As someone else pointed out, it looks like you might even be seeing some carryover beyond 12 hours some cycles. TID shooting may cause the 2nd dose to start working before the 1st dose is done. Then you would see faster drops earlier in the cycle, and you'll be testing around the clock.

My opinion is that your vet really doesn't "get" feline diabetes. Maybe she's more familiar with canine diabetes? Her insulin choice indicates that. Vetsulin/Caninsulin were created for dogs, not cats. But a cat can respond to any insulin. Cats have gone OTJ on Humulin.
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
Did your vet even look at your spreadsheet? NOTHING on that spreadsheet indicates that "lack of duration" is a problem. I realize that the overwhelming majority of people here would suggest a "longer lasting insulin" like one of the "L's" or Prozinc. And sure, they work great for most cats. But I can't see where anybody can examine your spreadsheet and conclude that Vetsulin isn't working, or that you aren't seeing good duration. It looks like you are seeing nadir at +6 or +7? That's better duration than I got with PZI.

It may be that you will switch insulin at some point. But you do that when the insulin you have is proven by your data to not be working.

I agree with the dose reduction. 4u is what I mentioned yesterday. But I DON'T agree with shooting every 8 hours. First, you are getting more than 8 hours from a dose now. As someone else pointed out, it looks like you might even be seeing some carryover beyond 12 hours some cycles. TID shooting may cause the 2nd dose to start working before the 1st dose is done. Then you would see faster drops earlier in the cycle, and you'll be testing around the clock.

My opinion is that your vet really doesn't "get" feline diabetes. Maybe she's more familiar with canine diabetes? Her insulin choice indicates that. Vetsulin/Caninsulin were created for dogs, not cats. But a cat can respond to any insulin. Cats have gone OTJ on Humulin.
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I agree, right from the start I got the feeling she had very little experience with feline diabetes. I actually asked her to test him for diabetes about a month-month and a half before she finally did; when I had first suggested it she ruled it out right up front. Unfortunately I live way out in the boondocks and she is the closest vet to me. And I like her, I just don't trust her opinion!
 
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and "come home, Khoji" prayers...
 
Squallie's PMPS was 224. I don't think it's a very good idea to give him any insulin tonight, I'm afraid he'll bottom out, even at 4 units. Anybody else want to weigh in on this? Am I making the right decision?
 
Squalliesmom said:
Squallie's PMPS was 224. I don't think it's a very good idea to give him any insulin tonight, I'm afraid he'll bottom out, even at 4 units. Anybody else want to weigh in on this? Am I making the right decision?
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I certainly understand not wanting to give him 4 units. And a 224 after 12 hours is a really nice number to see. With no shot, you might see a higher number in the morning, but it's just a number. You could skip if you prefer, or maybe go with even less, like maybe 2 units? And no matter what the number is in the morning (assuming it is high), I wouldn't go any more than 4 units, then see what it does.

Your call. It's always your call. You hold the syringe, and I always advise people to "go with their gut" when in doubt.

Carl
 
pevsfreedom said:
Try to hope for the best. I live on a main road in Los Angeles and we got Mushu back after 3 weeks. It happens.
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I haven't given up all hope yet, but he's never done this before. I'm doubly concerned because he really hates our new Bengal girl , who, ironically, we got as a playmate for him. I'm afraid maybe he won't come home now because of her (barring something bad having happened to him).
 
pevsfreedom said:
Try to hope for the best. I live on a main road in Los Angeles and we got Mushu back after 3 weeks. It happens.
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I haven't given up all hope yet, but he's never done this before. I'm doubly concerned because he really hates our new Bengal girl , who, ironically, we got as a playmate for him. I'm afraid maybe he won't come home now because of her (barring something bad having happened to him).
 
Squallie's BG this AM is 370. After he eats breakfast I'm going to give him 4 units and monitor to see how he does with that. I did NOT give him any insulin last night so I feel like we're starting off fresh this morning. Fingers crossed!
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
I certainly understand not wanting to give him 4 units. And a 224 after 12 hours is a really nice number to see. With no shot, you might see a higher number in the morning, but it's just a number. You could skip if you prefer, or maybe go with even less, like maybe 2 units? And no matter what the number is in the morning (assuming it is high), I wouldn't go any more than 4 units, then see what it does.

Your call. It's always your call. You hold the syringe, and I always advise people to "go with their gut" when in doubt.

Carl
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I did skip last night's shot, he's at 370 this morning so we're going to go with 4 units and see where that takes us.
"Go with your gut" is excellent advice; I should have gone with my gut yesterday and not given him the 7 units in the AM. Lesson learned!
 
Squalliesmom said:
I haven't given up all hope yet, but he's never done this before. I'm doubly concerned because he really hates our new Bengal girl , who, ironically, we got as a playmate for him. I'm afraid maybe he won't come home now because of her (barring something bad having happened to him).
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My naughty, rotten, spoiled, beloved, I'm-gonna-kill-him, so-relieved-he's-back, worried-me-half-to-death, special baby boy Khoji is home!
 
So far so good with Squallie. He seems more tired than usual but he's had a hellish couple of days, and I'm sure all the steep BG drops and rises must be hard on him physically. I plan on checking his numbers again in about an hour, will post them when I do.
 
Think I might have accidentally sabotaged Squallie today :-(. In my scramble to lure Khoji back inside this morning I grabbed the first can of food that came to hand-high carb gravy food. I left it on the kitchen floor with Khoji eating from it while I ran around and closed up all the doors I had left open for him, and promptly forgot about it as I got involved with dishing up everyone's "wet brekkies." Long story short, Squallie just came out the the kitchen looking very pleased with himself and set about cleaning his face; that's when I remembered the open can. *sigh* I guess I'll know for sure when I test him next. Poor guy, I really had hoped he might have a fairly level day today. And it's entirely my fault :-(
 
Squalliesmom said:
My naughty, rotten, spoiled, beloved, I'm-gonna-kill-him, so-relieved-he's-back, worried-me-half-to-death, special baby boy Khoji is home!
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WOO-HOOOOO!!! Happy dance!

Squalliesmom said:
Think I might have accidentally sabotaged Squallie today
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Don't worry about it. Stuff happens under the best of circumstances. I'm sure Squallie enjoyed his "treat".

The effects of the higher carb food will pass. Don't eat yourself up over it! Tomorrow is another day...
 
With all that you've had to cope with in the last few days it's not a critical error though. You must be exhausted from all this. I know I certainly was when Radar was racing down the dosing scale and he had low readings every cycle every day. I could barely keep up. Rest, Lucy and remember it's better to be high than low. :)
 
I may have been wrong about Squallie eating the high carb food, maybe it was one of the other cats because Squall's BG is down to 81 at+5 hrs? DOn't know whether that's good or bad, based on the last two days of lows. Anybody have any thoughts to share?
 
Squalliesmom said:
I may have been wrong about Squallie eating the high carb food, maybe it was one of the other cats because Squall's BG is down to 81 at+5 hrs? DOn't know whether that's good or bad, based on the last two days of lows. Anybody have any thoughts to share?
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The mania continues! I could be wrong but I think 81 at +5 is good as long as he doesn't dive too much further in. The dives from vetsulin would give me a heart attack lol.
 
pevsfreedom said:
The mania continues! I could be wrong but I think 81 at +5 is good as long as he doesn't dive too much further in. The dives from vetsulin would give me a heart attack lol.
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Trust me, it's not doing me any favors, lol! The last coupled of days have been so stressful I'm amazed I haven't had a stroke or a heart attack!
I'm going to test him again in about an hour, just too make sure he isn't dropping any farther.
 
Squalliesmom said:
Trust me, it's not doing me any favors, lol! The last coupled of days have been so stressful I'm amazed I haven't had a stroke or a heart attack!
I'm going to test him again in about an hour, just too make sure he isn't dropping any farther.
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It'll keep you young. Lol. I'm so glad you got your other cat back.
 
Based on my experience only, with only my cat,

81 at +5 is a number to watch in case it keeps dropping while you approach the nadir. It looks like Squallies nadir is about +6 or 7 so you are close.

Maybe give him something to eat to soften the coming drop a bit??

If he were mine, I would also be thinking about dropping the dose... ??? What do you think Lucy??
 
Jan Radar said:
Based on my experience only, with only my cat,

81 at +5 is a number to watch in case it keeps dropping while you approach the nadir. It looks like Squallies nadir is about +6 or 7 so you are close.

Maybe give him something to eat to soften the coming drop a bit??

If he were mine, I would also be thinking about dropping the dose... ??? What do you think Lucy??
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Based off your SS I take it feeding small meals through the day really helps with vetsulin's dramatic drops?
 
Yes, of course every cat is different, but I found that giving Radar more food early in the cycle helped to steer the numbers so he didn't drop soooooo much. I got much better at it with practice and a lot of testing.
 
Jan Radar said:
Based on my experience only, with only my cat,

81 at +5 is a number to watch in case it keeps dropping while you approach the nadir. It looks like Squallies nadir is about +6 or 7 so you are close.

Maybe give him something to eat to soften the coming drop a bit??

If he were mine, I would also be thinking about dropping the dose... ??? What do you think Lucy??
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I will try giving him a snack. Going to test him again shortly.

I gave him 4 units this morning, but it seems to me that the drop is almost as bad as when he got 7 units.
 
Okay, he's dropped a little more, to 77 at +6 hrs. Should I try some higher carb food or just his regular no carb food?
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Lucy,

I was very glad to read earlier that you reduced the dose. Just checking your spreadsheet ...
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I was so happy when the vet said to try 4 units instead of 7. Then she said to give it three times a day... not so happy with that. If he's still got low numbers at +8 hrs I am NOT giving him any more insulin!
 
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