Trouble is diabetic in Canada

[Wendy&Neko]

The twice a day feeding is the thinking from people more used to the older insulins. It is better to not feed in the last half of the cycle as that can slow the insulin down. As you learn your cats cycles, you'll find what works best for him. Since you've started the Lantus, you can pop on over to the Lantus and Levemir forum and browse around there. A lot of people put comments about feeding in their spreadsheets too.

@Angela - That was quite a high price for Lantus. We don't use the pen needles here - we use syringes to extract the Lantus, and we can buy cartridges in Canada. Last I bought it, it was just under $100 for a 5 pack of cartridges.

 

[Asrael]

@Robin&BB I want to thank you too for your comments surrounding the twice-daily feeds. Our vet recommended the same thing in order to achieve regulation as soon as possible, and to also then increase our chance of remission.

@Asrael we're home testing - if you'd like, feel free to pop over to my intro thread, I'm hoping to update it throughout the day.

@Melly I will check in with your thread later today- working all day But will be thinking of you guys!

@Robin&BB Will try to check at those points- working so not sure if it will connect timewise with my client- load- He was high this am before food 22.0 But then I read it can take 2-3 days til it starts making an effect

@Angela Thanks so much for the introduction! I am so glad to hear Spaz went into remission so quickly That is wonderful news!

@Wendy&Neko Thanks again for the information- I have checked out the Lantus forum and will spend more time there- especially when I get more familiar with the spreadsheets. And great to know about the cheaper option for Lantus. I went with the pen at the vets for $31 for the first one (I know I can draw insulin from the cartridge with a syringe if we increase or decrease the dose).. It was just easy for the first time to get it there- and I am keeping my fingers crossed and intention true that he will go into remission before I need to get more.. but if not then its good to know!

Other updates- he is barely drinking in comparison to how he was- like maybe he needs to drink more?!? (not worried though). Ate lots this morning, and his urine was not great- clumpy/sticky. But its only day 2 of the insulin and day 5 of the total food switch- and he seems happy

Have a beautiful day!

 

[Robin&BB]

The twice a day feeding is the thinking from people more used to the older insulins.

@Wendy&Neko - Just so you're aware, I am not one of those people more used to the older insulins - only Lantus (2013) & ProZinc (currently).

My point is simply that it's awfully hard for a newbie to determine when a cat's nadir occurs on-insulin if they start off dumping extra food in a kitty's tummy near mid-cycle just because the cat is making it clear he's hungry. (Does that make sense?)

I followed the Queensland protocols when Bat-Bat was on Lantus. She was OTJ in less than 2 months. But I realize that tight regulation is not for everyone ...

 

[Robin&BB]

Other updates- he is barely drinking in comparison to how he was- like maybe he needs to drink more?!? (not worried though). Ate lots this morning, and his urine was not great- clumpy/sticky. But its only day 2 of the insulin and day 5 of the total food switch- and he seems happy :)

Most cats do not naturally have a high thirst drive. So is normal, as diabetes starts being controlled, to see him drinking far less water. (I measure my cat's water consumption every 24 hrs, and will [I]continue[/I] to do so if we ever get her back into remission, as lots of water-drinking can be an early indicator that there's a problem occuring/ high glucose.)

 

[Cat Ma]

As Robin&BB said, less water drinking is normal as the diabetes is being regulated. Less urine input is also normal. This is a very good sign that the insulin and diet changes are working for Trouble.

 

[Angela]

@Wendy&Neko I'm "here" and I used pen needles . I know most people don't use pen needles here but they worked for Spaz's needs (including half unit doses). The pen needles were probably what brought the cost up as I remember them being expensive. I will have to see if I can find my receipts for the prescription.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Asrael - great news on drinking less! That's a great first sign. A lot of us will add water to kitties wet food as dehydration can be a concern for diabetic kitties. But it depends on the cat. Neko is a good drinker, always has been.

@Robin&BB - Sorry, I wasn't referring to you - but you'll often get that advice from some vets not used to new insulins. My vet was only used to Caninsulin for cats. Asrael is lucky to be starting out on Lantus - I hear from a lot of people in Canada who get started on Caninsulin first.

@Angela - We also do dosing by .25U increments and decrements, hence the syringes. Good to know you can get pen needles done for .5U amounts, though pricy.

 

[Asrael]

As Robin&BB said, less water drinking is normal as the diabetes is being regulated. Less urine input is also normal. This is a very good sign that the insulin and diet changes are working for Trouble.

@Robin&BB , and @Cat Ma - @Wendy&Neko Spoke too soon about the drinking- he didn't drink much yesterday but this morning he went for it and had alot.. Will continue to watch him and will do a glucose test before my next client.. Am i right in what I posted before about it taking 48-72 hours for the insulin to start to give effect?

Also my vet did say she had worked with lots of cats with diabetes and is very familiar with Lantus, and thinks it is the best place to start for remission, as well as for their happiness. But that doesn't mean she's right about the food- Hearing the replies here I think I will do the 12 hour feeds until we get a view on what the insulin is doing and then probably feed a little more if he is stablized Its hard I want to trust the vet- but I used to work at a vet hospital, I know how much they love animals, but I also know how much misinformation is out there, and that they don't know.. Also.. It wasn't her- but I don't know why this wasn't diagnosed in November.. and that leads to more distrust...

Ok back to work soon

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Lantus is a depot insulin, so we usually suggest holding the first dose 5-7 days (unless they go too low). And then depending on what method you use for dosing, changes are held for a minimum of 3 days, up to a week before deciding on a change in dose. You will start seeing some changes in blood sugar early on, but you won't see the full effect of the dose for several days.

 

[Robin&BB]

@Robin&BB , and @Cat Ma - @Wendy&Neko Spoke too soon about the drinking- he didn't drink much yesterday but this morning he went for it and had alot.. Its hard I want to trust the vet- but I used to work at a vet hospital, I know how much they love animals, but I also know how much misinformation is out there, and that they don't know..

Re: Water drinking - I just went back through my old (Lantus) record on Bat-Bat, and her water drinking didn't stay consistently low until about a month into treatment. (At the start, she was drinking as much as 9 oz./day!) After her diabetes was better under control with Lantus & her #s stayed low, the water drinking stayed under about 0.5 oz., with some variation, depending on whether it was horribly hot weather, or she'd barfed up a hairball, etc. So don't fret any about it, as he's just begun treatment. (And every cat's different, of course!) I really only use measuring water as a secondary monitoring tool - but if we ever get back into remission, it will carry more weight in terms of early warning signs of a recurrence, as - hopefully - won't need to do many ear-pricks then.
Re: Vets - Having been through this twice with two different vets in two different states, I agree with what you said above.
And I have to say this: I've had STELLAR guidance from the marvelous people here at FDMB! Not only are there so many wonderful, patient "teachers" here, but they help you build confidence, over time, in your own decision-making abilities. (And never once has anyone ever told me I asked a "stupid" question, even on those days that I was feeling very stupid .) I am so grateful for all of these mentors. (You've come to the right place, for sure, Asrael!)

 

[Asrael]

Re: Water drinking - I just went back through my old (Lantus) record on Bat-Bat, and her water drinking didn't stay consistently low until about a month into treatment. (At the start, she was drinking as much as 9 oz./day!) After her diabetes was better under control with Lantus & her #s stayed low, the water drinking stayed under about 0.5 oz., with some variation, depending on whether it was horribly hot weather, or she'd barfed up a hairball, etc. So don't fret any about it, as he's just begun treatment. (And every cat's different, of course!) I really only use measuring water as a secondary monitoring tool - but if we ever get back into remission, it will carry more weight in terms of early warning signs of a recurrence, as - hopefully - won't need to do many ear-pricks then.
Re: Vets - Having been through this twice with two different vets in two different states, I agree with what you said above.
And I have to say this: I've had STELLAR guidance from the marvelous people here at FDMB! Not only are there so many wonderful, patient "teachers" here, but they help you build confidence, over time, in your own decision-making abilities. (And never once has anyone ever told me I asked a "stupid" question, even on those days that I was feeling very stupid .) I am so grateful for all of these mentors. (You've come to the right place, for sure, Asrael!)

@Robin&BB - Thanks so much for looking at your notes and letting me know- it does help alot- He seems more down today- and the 12 hour feeding is hard.. it seems like he is hungry but then by the time its dinner time- he just doesn't want to eat (which has not been the case- he is usually hungry) Did get him to eat 2 freeze dried Primal Raw blocks with water- and a small can of alma whitebait/tuna- so its enough to give him the insulin- but he turned up his nose at 2 other kinds- and had done the same thing this morning.. Will call the vet and talk to her about it tomorrow- I get the 12 hour thing- but just don't want to push him as he is so skinny, and if it turns him off No more water drank yet today though- which is good- and a normal pee

As overwhelmed as I am, I am so grateful and thankful for EVERYONE on this board- the help has been amazing and reading others posts help too.. It is so wonderful- And I trust things WILL get easier in time- especially when he starts to balance out

Thank you again!

 

[Robin&BB]

@Robin&BB - He seems more down today- and the 12 hour feeding is hard.. it seems like he is hungry but then by the time its dinner time- he just doesn't want to eat (which has not been the case- he is usually hungry) Did get him to eat 2 freeze dried Primal Raw blocks with water- and a small can of alma whitebait/tuna- so its enough to give him the insulin- but he turned up his nose at 2 other kinds- and had done the same thing this morning.. Will call the vet and talk to her about it tomorrow- I get the 12 hour thing- but just don't want to push him as he is so skinny, and if it turns him off No more water drank yet today though- which is good- and a normal pee

By all means, it is important that he eats - otherwise you won't be able to give him his insulin. Sometimes they go off their feed a bit in the beginning - you know, this is all new to his little body & it's not been even a ful week yet. (Could be he just has an unsettled tummy? How's he pooping?)
But yes, talk with your vet about it - & I'm sure others here can give you some good suggestions about what other things might tempt him, too.
Please don't worry too, too much about him being thin right now - I found that alarming, too, with Bat-Bat. But he really will begin to put his weight back on because it was the diabetes that made him lose that much ... and the good news is: Now you're treating it! Chin up & breathe, dear ... you're doing fine!!!

 

[Asrael]

By all means, it is important that he eats - otherwise you won't be able to give him his insulin. Sometimes they go off their feed a bit in the beginning - you know, this is all new to his little body & it's not been even a ful week yet. (Could be he just has an unsettled tummy? How's he pooping?)
But yes, talk with your vet about it - & I'm sure others here can give you some good suggestions about what other things might tempt him, too.
Please don't worry too, too much about him being thin right now - I found that alarming, too, with Bat-Bat. But he really will begin to put his weight back on because it was the diabetes that made him lose that much ... and the good news is: Now you're treating it! Chin up & breathe, dear ... you're doing fine!!!

Thank you so much for the reminder to BREATHE I keep trying to remind myself

 

[Angela]

@Angela - We also do dosing by .25U increments and decrements, hence the syringes. Good to know you can get pen needles done for .5U amounts, though pricy.

@Wendy&Neko I know, I was just teasing as you said "we" and I like to consider myself a pen needle using part of the "we" even though I am a newish member . I personally had no issues with the pen needles and measuring half doses (you have to have a steady hand though) when Spaz started on 1.5 units but would not have been able to measure anything smaller than that.
My vet took Spaz off insulin immediately though rather than reducing his dose. Risky move to go from 2 units to nothing, but fortunately for me and my boy it was successful.

I found my receipt for the prescription and I paid $114.99 CAD for a pack of 5 Lantus Solostar pens 100u/ml at Shoppers Drug Mart. A bit more than what you pay it seems but a lot cheaper than in the U.S. .