Do cats have a natural nadir?

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Jan Radar (GA)

Jan Radar (GA)

Member Since 2015
I've been looking over my cat's ss trying to understand what is going on in his little furry body. I finished the switch from kibble to low carb wet food on Tuesday last week. He has done a rapid nose dive during the past week towards an insulin dose of zero or perhaps fractions of a unit.

I decided to do a "curve" today, mostly motivated by curiosity, to see what his BG numbers did with no insulin from me. When I look at his numbers for today, it appears that he has a nadir at +6 and then he starts to rise again at the next test. This made me wonder do cats have a natural nadir? I'm sure they must, but I'd never really thought about it exactly before now. I'm interested in whatever knowledge could be useful about this phenomenon.
 
Jan Radar said:
I've been looking over my cat's ss trying to understand what is going on in his little furry body. I finished the switch from kibble to low carb wet food on Tuesday last week. He has done a rapid nose dive during the past week towards an insulin dose of zero or perhaps fractions of a unit.

I decided to do a "curve" today, mostly motivated by curiosity, to see what his BG numbers did with no insulin from me. When I look at his numbers for today, it appears that he has a nadir at +6 and then he starts to rise again at the next test. This made me wonder do cats have a natural nadir? I'm sure they must, but I'd never really thought about it exactly before now. I'm interested in whatever knowledge could be useful about this phenomenon.
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It looks like my Casey is doing a similar thing. She is too low for me to comfortably shoot ...in 160's at amps... and drops in the 80's at +5. So, I guess they do have a natural nadir. She hasn't had insulin for the past 3 days. Hoping the low#'s continue!
 
In a cat not on insulin blood glucose will rise and fall during the day based on feeds and the body's requirements. Beneath that is the body's natural circadian rhythm. It is reasonable to infer that blood glucose levels may be influenced by the body clock. For example, as you may often read here, some cats have a tendency to run at lower blood glucose levels during the night as, indeed, do some human diabetics (look up nocturnal hypoglycaemia).
 
Terry and Casey said:
It looks like my Casey is doing a similar thing. She is too low for me to comfortably shoot ...in 160's at amps... and drops in the 80's at +5. So, I guess they do have a natural nadir. She hasn't had insulin for the past 3 days. Hoping the low#'s continue!
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Terry, :) Like you I'm hopeful that the low #s continue. My toes and paws are crossed for Casey and Radar.
 
Jan Radar said:
When I look at his numbers for today, it appears that he has a nadir at +6 and then he starts to rise again at the next test. This made me wonder do cats have a natural nadir? I'm sure they must, but I'd never really thought about it exactly before now. I'm interested in whatever knowledge could be useful about this phenomenon.
Click to expand...
In a normal cat (or human!) a small 'maintenance' amount of insulin will be produced all the time. But when food is eaten the pancreas produces more insulin. It can be thought of as a 'key' that opens up the cells to let the glucose in. And by doing this the blood glucose is also restored to normal levels.

We can observe this in cats that are starting to go into remission. Sometimes one of the first signs that a caregiver will see (apart from the blood glucose getting into a better range, or the insulin dose needing to be reduced) is that their cat's blood glucose drops an hour or so after eating a meal.

But a normal cat doesn't have a nadir in the same way that a cat on insulin does. When a cat is on insulin the nadir (lowest blood glucose) occurs when the injected/exogenous insulin is having it's maximum effect ('peak'). Often, but not always, this will be roughly half way through the insulin cycle.

Here's a link to an interesting article about insulin (which also explains why the blood glucose level goes up in times of stress):
http://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/insulin.aspx

Aine also raises an interesting point above when she mentions the body's 'circadium rhythm'. And I came across an article suggesting that the pancreas also has it's own 'molecular clock'.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100618141627.htm

Radar's numbers are looking really nice, Jan (especially given that these are Alphatrak numbers). :)
It's hard to know why he dropped at +6. Could it be in relation to feeding? Or I wonder if his little pancreas is producing insulin intermittently. Sometimes, when the pancreas starts working it can be quite erratic at first (referred to here as a 'sputtering' pancreas).

Keeping fingers and paws crossed that remission may soon be on the cards for Radar...(touch wood/anti-jinx!).

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Aine also raises an interesting point above when she mentions the body's 'circadium rhythm'. And I came across an article suggesting that the pancreas also has it's own 'molecular clock'.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100618141627.htm
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I have just been doing reading on circadium. My question is regarding kitties as opposed to humans. Human circadium is based on light and dark/day and night. Since cats are by nature nocturnal, although indoor cats can be 'conditioned" to follow more of a human pattern, would a kitty's circadium cycle be different than a person as far as "dawn phenomena" amd daily rising and fallings. Since a cat spends much of its time sleeping how would that affect the circadium? It would be interesting to know in order to judge variances in glucose levels.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Since cats are by nature nocturnal, although indoor cats can be 'conditioned" to follow more of a human pattern, would a kitty's circadium cycle be different than a person as far as "dawn phenomena" amd daily rising and fallings.
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Hmmm, interesting points, Mary Ann....
Although, as I understand it, cats aren't so much 'nocturnal' as 'crepuscular' (ie. most active at dawn and dusk).

Gonna see if I can find anything on the internet.....:bookworm:

Edited to add:
Found a few articles here; couldn't find exactly what I was looking for but these might be helpful. (Haven't had a chance to read them properly. Am dashing out shortly to collect cat from vet...)
http://www.annarbor.com/pets/cats-felines-how-to-curb-waking-up-early-morning-behavior-late-night/
http://lightcues.com/4-ways-help-cat-sleep-night/
http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2013/jan/cats-can-learn-to-sleep-at-night-29777
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(12)00122-0/abstract

.
 
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Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hmmm, interesting points, Mary Ann....
Although, as I understand it, cats aren't so much 'nocturnal' as 'crepuscular' (ie. most active at dawn and dusk).

Gonna see if I can find anything on the internet.....:bookworm:

Edited to add:
Found a few articles here; couldn't find exactly what I was looking for but these might be helpful. (Haven't had a chance to read them properly. Am dashing out shortly to collect cat from vet...)
http://www.annarbor.com/pets/cats-felines-how-to-curb-waking-up-early-morning-behavior-late-night/
http://lightcues.com/4-ways-help-cat-sleep-night/
http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2013/jan/cats-can-learn-to-sleep-at-night-29777
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(12)00122-0/abstract

.
Click to expand...

I have read a couple of those articles. They seem more related to the fact that cats can be "conditioned" to follow a more human pattern because of human activity in the household (this would relate more to indoor cats). I have been interested in the feline circadium, since there are times I have had the glucose levels can rise a lot in a short period of time (as little as 3 hours) overnite. Trying to make judgement calls on whether these times are bounces, short duration or circadium effected.
 
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