We took our cat and my Relion Prime to the vet to check our reading against the vet 's meter. Ours read 247 and the vet's reading was 336. I checked myself and my reading was 122. The vet said we should add 100 to our reading to get a satisfactory reading for Snowcone. What do you think? Is it normal for these meters to be that far off?
Difference between my meter and the vet's
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Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
They certainly could be off by about 30 points if your vet is using a pet meter and you are using a human meter. But this difference is pretty substantial. I don't know. Maybe ask on Health and see if others have any experiences like that. I have always heard about a little difference but that not that much.
Yes, I am concerned about the big difference. The vet said to subtract 100 from our reading. When I checked myself the reading was 122. If I subtracted 100 from that, I should probably be dead with a reading of only 22!
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
So you could just figure that the meter is accurate and maybe something is off with his meter? Pet meters do measure differently than human ones. If anyone here uses the pet meter, they identify it in your signature so we can do that subtraction of -30 when they post. The vast majority of people here use human meters because of the cost.
I think if I were you, I would just work with your meter. I wouldn't subtract 100 from each reading. That could drive you crazy.
Amps is am(morning) preshot number. Pmps is evening pre shot number. Here is a glossary thread. We do use a lot of jargon:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...used-about-our-jargon-read-our-glossary.1124/
I think if I were you, I would just work with your meter. I wouldn't subtract 100 from each reading. That could drive you crazy.
Amps is am(morning) preshot number. Pmps is evening pre shot number. Here is a glossary thread. We do use a lot of jargon:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...used-about-our-jargon-read-our-glossary.1124/
Thanks for the info. The vet's reading was 100 higher than ours. She said to add 100 to our reading, which to me doesn't sound right. We got a reading of 160 four hours after her morning shot. If I add 1oo, that puts her way up at 260. I will definitely take our meter to the vet next visit, and make sure to get an accurate comparison between the two.
geekgirldany
Active Member
BJM has this link to the Glucometer Notes
It shows the difference between human and vet meter. I have been using the vet meter and just recently started using both for comparison sake. Plus I will have to stop using the vet meter as the strips are so expensive and I now need to test more often. It is not always so cut and dry about adding 100 or 50, etc. Take a look at my SpreadSheet and you can see in the past few days the difference between vet and relion meter. The R stands for the Relion Number.
It shows the difference between human and vet meter. I have been using the vet meter and just recently started using both for comparison sake. Plus I will have to stop using the vet meter as the strips are so expensive and I now need to test more often. It is not always so cut and dry about adding 100 or 50, etc. Take a look at my SpreadSheet and you can see in the past few days the difference between vet and relion meter. The R stands for the Relion Number.
I see your numbers are quite different for the two meters. My question is, which meter do you make your decision on whether or not to shoot? It appears you are using the higher numbers rather than the Relion. If you start using the Relion only, will you then use its numbers, or add some amount to approximate what your other meter would have said?
BJM
Very Active Member
We have different reference numbers for when not to shoot and they are given in the protocols for our insulins, plus are summed up somewhat in my signature link Glucometer Notes.
We recommend you pick 1 meter to use consistently and report the numbers you actually get with no attempts to convert from a human to pet meter nor vice versa.
We recommend you pick 1 meter to use consistently and report the numbers you actually get with no attempts to convert from a human to pet meter nor vice versa.
C
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
Guest
I hardly ever post anymore, but feel compelled to do so in this case.
First off, your vet is dead wrong in saying there is a "100 point difference" between a human meter and a pet meter. I would ask them to provide research data that supports that claim. I am not aware of any that exists, but I'm not a vet.
For that matter, anyone who gives you a specific number to add or subtract from your reading across the entire range of blood glucose numbers is likewise wrong. The "old standard", and I have no idea where it came from was "30 points". I think it is just one of those things that got said so often by so many that it became a "standard" variance. But there is no real research to support 30 points either.
But what it comes down to is this - It doesn't matter what number someone gives you. 30, 50, 100, or whatever. It doesn't mean anything.
What are the numbers for? They are to let you know how well a dose of insulin is working in your cat. So you test before each shot, to make sure it is safe to do so. At first, we usually consider "200" to be the lowest number you would give a shot. But that isn't etched in stone either. A lot of it has to do with what your "normal dose" is, and more importantly, how much data you have at your disposal to make you feel comfortable giving insulin regardless of dose. Maybe you would reduce the dose if you weren't completely sure. Or skip altogether. The key is collecting data so that you can make those decisions on your own.
The thing to find out is "What is my vet going to do with the numbers?" If he's telling you to add 100 points, then he is going to base his advice on dose on higher numbers. That will likely cause him to advise a dose that is too high. Is he advising you to test in between shots to see what kind of numbers you get? Is he concerned with how low the BG goes 5-6 hours the shot when the insulin should be reaching peak effect? If not, then I wouldn't listen to a word he says regarding dose. You have to know the "low" to be sure the dose is not too high, and not too low. Many vets base Prozinc dose on nothing but the AMPS and PMPS test numbers. That is not a good way to base the dose on. You also have to know the low point.
One thing I am sure of after more than four years of reading and posting here is that anyone who gives you "dose advice" is going to err on the side of caution. Because the bottom line concern is the safety of your cat. None of us are vets. We might have a few vet techs around, not sure. But when people here give advice, they are going to be more conservative with your cat than they would be with their own cat. I personally was very aggressive with dosing when I had Bob, the Sugar Kitty. But I would never advise you to do the things I did with Bob. Because Bob was Bob, and he was right here in front of me. And if things went badly, I was here to intervene.
By the way, on the day Bob started insulin, I went to my vet to learn how to shoot, and to learn how to home test. She told me "Your Relion Micro is going to read about 30 points lower than my meter". I did test side by side with hers using the same drop of blood on two occasions. My meter was 30-35 points lower than hers. ON THOSE TWO TESTS. After a while, I began to feel that she was telling me to give Bob too much insulin (He got as much as 4 units of PZI if his BG was high enough. So without telling her, I started making all my own decisions on dose that were based on the numbers I got on my Relion meter. A few weeks later, Bob went into remission, and he lived another 2 and a half years without insulin. My vet was wrong too.
So take your Prime meter, test your kitty, and base your decisions on the data that you collect. Let your vet think what he wants. He isn't your kitty's caregiver. You are.
Carl
First off, your vet is dead wrong in saying there is a "100 point difference" between a human meter and a pet meter. I would ask them to provide research data that supports that claim. I am not aware of any that exists, but I'm not a vet.
For that matter, anyone who gives you a specific number to add or subtract from your reading across the entire range of blood glucose numbers is likewise wrong. The "old standard", and I have no idea where it came from was "30 points". I think it is just one of those things that got said so often by so many that it became a "standard" variance. But there is no real research to support 30 points either.
But what it comes down to is this - It doesn't matter what number someone gives you. 30, 50, 100, or whatever. It doesn't mean anything.
What are the numbers for? They are to let you know how well a dose of insulin is working in your cat. So you test before each shot, to make sure it is safe to do so. At first, we usually consider "200" to be the lowest number you would give a shot. But that isn't etched in stone either. A lot of it has to do with what your "normal dose" is, and more importantly, how much data you have at your disposal to make you feel comfortable giving insulin regardless of dose. Maybe you would reduce the dose if you weren't completely sure. Or skip altogether. The key is collecting data so that you can make those decisions on your own.
The thing to find out is "What is my vet going to do with the numbers?" If he's telling you to add 100 points, then he is going to base his advice on dose on higher numbers. That will likely cause him to advise a dose that is too high. Is he advising you to test in between shots to see what kind of numbers you get? Is he concerned with how low the BG goes 5-6 hours the shot when the insulin should be reaching peak effect? If not, then I wouldn't listen to a word he says regarding dose. You have to know the "low" to be sure the dose is not too high, and not too low. Many vets base Prozinc dose on nothing but the AMPS and PMPS test numbers. That is not a good way to base the dose on. You also have to know the low point.
One thing I am sure of after more than four years of reading and posting here is that anyone who gives you "dose advice" is going to err on the side of caution. Because the bottom line concern is the safety of your cat. None of us are vets. We might have a few vet techs around, not sure. But when people here give advice, they are going to be more conservative with your cat than they would be with their own cat. I personally was very aggressive with dosing when I had Bob, the Sugar Kitty. But I would never advise you to do the things I did with Bob. Because Bob was Bob, and he was right here in front of me. And if things went badly, I was here to intervene.
By the way, on the day Bob started insulin, I went to my vet to learn how to shoot, and to learn how to home test. She told me "Your Relion Micro is going to read about 30 points lower than my meter". I did test side by side with hers using the same drop of blood on two occasions. My meter was 30-35 points lower than hers. ON THOSE TWO TESTS. After a while, I began to feel that she was telling me to give Bob too much insulin (He got as much as 4 units of PZI if his BG was high enough. So without telling her, I started making all my own decisions on dose that were based on the numbers I got on my Relion meter. A few weeks later, Bob went into remission, and he lived another 2 and a half years without insulin. My vet was wrong too.
So take your Prime meter, test your kitty, and base your decisions on the data that you collect. Let your vet think what he wants. He isn't your kitty's caregiver. You are.
Carl
Merlin
Very Active Member
At first, I too was concerned with the number variance between the Alpha Trak2 and the Relion Micro meter. It took me some time and a lot of conversation with the experienced folks here at this website. I also tracked two numbers for a short time very early on. But finally, I got it. Our insulin protocols provide you a reference number for a human meter just like BJ states. For example, my goal is to get Merlin between the safe numbers of 50-120 because I have a human meter. If I used a pet meter, then my goal would be 80-160. Also early on, I had to keep reminding myself that data is data; if that makes sense. What is important is to collect that data; keeping in mind of the insulin protocol and its reference number, and making decisions based on that data. So I wouldn't get too hung up on the differences or results that these two meters give you as long as you have good, consistent data and are following your insulin's protocol. I would never add 30 or 100 to my numbers...it wouldn't be reliable data.
Last edited:
geekgirldany
Active Member
Yes I was making my decisions on the higher AlphaTrak number but I had a general idea of what that number should be. When I move back to Relion, I will use those numbers. I WILL NOT ADD ANY AMOUNT TO THAT.
Now with that said, when he first got Diabetes, I started with the Relion meter and went by posts/articles on the board using that meter. I did not know a thing about feline diabetes (not saying I am a expert now as you can see from my current posts) and my vet is a good person but I really had a hard time on understanding what to do.
As others mentioned, don't worry about the differences. The only reason I am still using the Alphatrak meter is because my friend insists on it. I will not go into detail but she believes it is more accurate... which is not true.
Mitzelplik's Mom
Active Member
There was long thread about meter differences recently but I can't find it. From everything I've read on this forum and else where, as well as my own experience with both AlphaTrak and a human meter, human meters generally read 30-40% lower than pet meters. My two meters differ by 32% on average, not on every test. You can look at Mitz's spreadsheets to see the 50 or so comparison tests I did. (the AlphaTrak tests are on a 2nd tab). The best explanation I've heard is that it's like Fahrenheit vs Celsius. Both are right but you have to understand the reference point. Your 247 and your vet's 336 are within a 25-30% difference. BJM's signature notes explain this in more technical terms.
Thank you everybody for all the input. I am feeling much better about everything! We have been getting readings in the mid 200's for a few days, but last night the number jumped to 356. Haven't checked yet today because of other problems, but will do so this a little later. Once again, thanks for all the comments.
I just checked Snowcone's reading and it was 254. Considerably lower than the 356 last night. My question is. Does feeding time have anything to do with the numbers. She had just had a big meal last night before getting the 356. Should you take a reading just before or after eating? The reading of 354 today was when she had not eaten for some time. Any input would be appreciated.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
yes, food raises blood glucose levels. That's why we suggest getting a test first, then feeding and shooting all at the same time.
It would be helpful if you'd set up a spreadsheet. It's a great color coded toll that you, your vet and we can use to see your cat's history of levels and doses. The instructions are here:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
It's a little tricky so if you need help, I can set it up for you. Just click on my picture and start a private conversation.
ProZinc should give you a curve shaped like a smile, from higher pre shot to lowest point 5-7 hours later (called the nadir) back up to a level around the am number. Have you read the protocol we put together for ProZinc? It's in my signature in blue.
It would be helpful if you'd set up a spreadsheet. It's a great color coded toll that you, your vet and we can use to see your cat's history of levels and doses. The instructions are here:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
It's a little tricky so if you need help, I can set it up for you. Just click on my picture and start a private conversation.
ProZinc should give you a curve shaped like a smile, from higher pre shot to lowest point 5-7 hours later (called the nadir) back up to a level around the am number. Have you read the protocol we put together for ProZinc? It's in my signature in blue.
BJM
Very Active Member
Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:
The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.
Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.
From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)
Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.
Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.
There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.
We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.
It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.
Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.
From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)
Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.
Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.
There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.
We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.
It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
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