Trying to switch to wet food and have a few ?

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Jan Radar (GA)

Jan Radar (GA)

Member Since 2015
Before Diabetes, I didn't know that cats shouldn't eat dry food... so I'm very new to the world of wet foods.
Before Diabetes, Radar didn't know wet food existed.... he is much wiser and happier now. :cat:

Early on, Radar didn't feel well so giving him shots was no problem. Then he started objecting and a solution had to be found. I started feeding him a small amount of wet food with his insulin shot for the purpose of keeping him busy and it works like magic. I've been buying by Nature 95% varieties - Salmon, Mackerel, Sardines but the cost is a little much so I went to Walmart and bought a bunch of Friskies and Fancy Feast. I got a lot of different varieties since I don't know what Radar will like other than the fish.

My question is what impact does the type of meat Radar eats have on the glucose readings? or does it not really matter? or is it dependent on the metabolism of an individual cat? or is it more about the particular recipe's ingredients?

I have been testing mainly every 10 days according to instructions from the vet and understand that I need to do it more when I begin taking the dry food out of Radar's diet and putting more wet food into the diet. I am in touch with my vet about wanting to change to wet food and he is willing to work with me on adjusting the insulin amounts. I also understand that the change needs to be done slowly so as not to upset the tummy. Is there anything else I need to be aware of? Any advice from your experience that will help my little guy transition is much appreciated.
 
The only caution we usually give is not to feed fish more than one or twice a week, because of the mercury. Otherwise, as long as you have picked foods in the 8% and below range, he should be good.
 
Jan Radar said:
I have been testing mainly every 10 days according to instructions from the vet and understand that I need to do it more when I begin taking the dry food out of Radar's diet and putting more wet food into the diet. I am in touch with my vet about wanting to change to wet food and he is willing to work with me on adjusting the insulin amounts. I also understand that the change needs to be done slowly so as not to upset the tummy. Is there anything else I need to be aware of? Any advice from your experience that will help my little guy transition is much appreciated.
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Are you home testing Radar's glucose levels with a glucometer? You need to be testing daily while your cat is on insulin. From looking at your spreadsheet, Radar is not being well regulated on Vetsulin and his BG numbers are too high. Lantus, Levermir or even ProZinc may be a better choice.

Be sure to have some high carb food or honey, karo syrup or gravy on hand in case Radar goes hypo.
 
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I am home testing glucose levels., but up until recently I've only tested as the vet has instructed. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it. As a result of your comments I realized that the wrong spreadsheet was posted... it's fixed now. :)
 
He is in very high numbers. This is on 8 units two times a day? What dose did he start on? Does he have any other complications like infections?

BTW, good job with the spreadsheet and the testing!
 
The vet started him on 1 unit of Vetsulin 2x a day at the end of March and we've gradually been inching up ever since. At the last curve we dropped back a unit from 9. We are due for another official curve for the vet in a few days. I too am a little concerned about the high numbers but am so unsure about what it all means that I don't even know what questions to ask the vet. His behaviors - bright eyes, purring, playing and grooming all indicate that he feels significantly better. I don't think there's any other complications. Until now he has always been Mr. Healthy with very few trips to the vet.
 
There are high dose conditions but they are finally rare. Most cats here are on 1-2 units. Just for reference, we call a cat regulated if they are in the mid 200s at pre shot and in double digits 4-6 hours after the shot.

Has your vet considered another insulin. Vetsulin is not one of the preferred insulin here. In most cats, it is too harsh, causing a fast drop and not lasting 12 hours. It looks like your kitty is high and flat, which is unusual.

The wet low carb should help. I'd watch him carefully as you change
 
Hi Jan another Vetsulin/Caninsulin user here. For sure as BJM said - feed when you test about 30 min prior to his injection and I usually feed again at shot and again at +2.5 or so, depending on the peak times(s). If you look at Genghis' spreadsheet - she peaks sometimes at 3 or 4 or even 6 hours - I haven't quite discerned a pattern but I know the fast acting insulin can really make her go pretty low. Doing your own curves if Radar will let you is a huge benefit to understanding how the insulin is working in him.

I am strongly considering changing to a longer acting insulin like Lantus because the Caninuslin tends to wear off in Genghis much sooner than 12 hours and makes her lows pretty low. Vets may suggest spreading out the dose 3x per day but that's just not practical for me as I work all day. Look at the World spreadsheet to see additional comments on food - some cats do well on mini-meals.

Good luck with Radar - he's a real cutie!
 
Looking at the spreadsheet and seeing in the signature the pancreatitis and food, I suspect the glucose can come down some with a change to lower carb food, but that the Vetsulin simply does not last long enough and the pancreatitis may be chronic with occasional flares.

Is your schedule such that your could test, feed, wait 30 minutes, and shoot about every 8 hours? Or, would you be willing to try another insulin? BCP PZI or ProZinc might work, but with the pancreatitis issue, I think a depot insulin could work better.

Also, are you using a pen to inject? Those typically don't do half unit doses, much less quarter unit increments, which may work better than full unit changes.
 
Jan I plotted his mini-curve from 7/03 and he's definitely not high and flat. What you see here is a steep drop in his blood glucose around hour 3 and then it comes right back up again about +7 to + 8 where you see his number climbing again.

Screen Shot 2015-07-10 at 8.41.15 PM.png


This suggests even such a high dose is wearing off too quickly. But I'm thinking of other factors, like his diet. I think the curve is also so steep because, if I understand your notes correctly, you are feeding the low carb canned food at injection, sort of a blood glucose "double whammy".

If he's then free feeding on the dry in between shots, that could also explain the high climb - I know when I fed Genghis some dry food and Temptations treats after she threw me a very low BG reading, her BG skyrocketed into red numbers very quickly. You should see improvement with a complete diet change, however gradual, and if you are testing a half hour before you shoot, you can sort of feel your way around lowering the dose as his body adjusts to the new food without putting him in to a hypo situation.

One caveat - I don't know anything about dosing with the history of pancreatitis, though.
 
Brash works is absolutely right. For some reason my phone only showed me earlier numbers. Definitely agree that drop is very harsh and fast. The lower numbers are nice but the cycle is too short.
 
Chronic pancreatitis is low grade, continuous inflammation of the pancreas. It can damage the insulin-producing islet cells as well as the digestive enzyme producing cells. It can spike the glucose extremely high when there is a flare, cause digestive upsets and food refusals, and thus be fatal. If your cat likes fish oil, a bit of that each day may be helpful as fish oil is high in the omega 3 fatty acids which may help reduce inflammation (I take it for my arthritis). Do discuss this with your vet.
Also monitor the fecal volume and color. Pasty grayish, largish, foul-smelling feces suggest the enzyme damage has happened. In that case, supplemental enzymes from the vet will be needed.
 
First I have to say that I'm so grateful to all of you for sharing your experience and wisdom. I need to digest all this info... And attempt to put the pieces together...
I was giving him fish oil mixed with a little meat baby food every day until he refused to eat it anymore. When I started giving him wet food- I started with abt a teaspoon of salmon each day - I was actually thinking that I'd outwitted his refusal for fish oil by giving him the real thing. After all, Doesn't "fish oil" come from fish?? When I started feeding him wet food his stools got really loose. The vet then gave me a probiotic which really helped and now the stools are back to being much more normal. However I will say that they are in the smelly category. When the curve was done on July 3 he was on the probiotic. He is not on the probiotic now and I'm thinking that he still needs it.

As for the feeding... This is the part of the puzzle I'm so scared of messing up... He was a"grazer" and a middle of the night eater before all of this so I don't want to shock him. He has adjusted well to wet food being on a 12 hr schedule and appears in the kitchen at the correct times. But the daily portion of dry food is still available to him whenever he wants it. Maybe I should move him away from free feeding ?? Is it safe to do this? I'm also thinking that the portion of wet food I give when I shoot should be the smallest portion I can get away with and give him the bulk of his meal 30 min before the shot. Is that a reasonable idea? It also sounds like snacks are a good idea. On his own he tends to get a snack at about +1 so I can use that as a starting point.

I will also be talking with the vet about the possibility of switching insulins. Right now my schedule is mine but when school starts again in august that will no longer be the case so summer is the best time to make these decisions.

Thanks again for taking the time today to help me. It has really helped me cope with my fears.
 
Many of us using longer duration insulins allow our cats to graze during the day, picking up the food 2 hours before the next test, feed, shoot time. For Vetsulin, which may wear off by +10, picking up the food 4 hours before the next test time may help.

If you are still giving some dry food, it may be that the carb level is too high. The only over the counter dry foods which are low carb are Evo Cat and Kitten dry found at specialty pet stores and Young Again 0 Carb which is available only online. Both are less than 10% calories from carbohydrates. If you aren't using one of them, you might try slowly switching.

Probiotics can be very helpful in restoring the GI tract back to its normal flora; if it seems to help, I'd continue with them.
A full teaspoon of fish oil may have been too much at one time. You might try a smaller amount if it seemed helpful.
 
BJM said:
Looking at the spreadsheet and seeing in the signature the pancreatitis and food, I suspect the glucose can come down some with a change to lower carb food, but that the Vetsulin simply does not last long enough and the pancreatitis may be chronic with occasional flares.

Is your schedule such that your could test, feed, wait 30 minutes, and shoot about every 8 hours? Or, would you be willing to try another insulin? BCP PZI or ProZinc might work, but with the pancreatitis issue, I think a depot insulin could work better.

Also, are you using a pen to inject? Those typically don't do half unit doses, much less quarter unit increments, which may work better than full unit changes.
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Thanks for your very informative comments. :bookworm: I am learning so much thanks to you and this great group of people. :bighug:

To answer your questions: I couldn't follow an 8 hour schedule because I'm a teacher. I think another insulin may be the answer for Radar. I am using U-40 syringes to administer the insulin not a pen. I was just following the vet's instructions and never really considered that the dose could be adjusted by half a unit or even a quarter. Something to investigate I think. Speaking of the vet, I just found out that the vet I've been using for all of Radar's life is moving to another practice in a few weeks... so now I'll be looking for someone new. - sigh

What is a "depot insulin"?
 
A depot insulin is one which when injected, doesn't immediately work 100 %. Instead it may form crystals which dissolve slowly to work (Lantus) or bind to blood proteins and then slowly get released (Levemir). This provides smooth, gentle curves with good 12 hour control, plus overlap from dose to dose which minimizes some of the fluctuation which happens with non-depot insulins like ProZinc, BCP PZI, Vetsulin/Caninsulin, NPH and R.

See my signature link Vet Interview Topics for questions to help you rule in or out candidate vets.
 
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