6/22 Sampson PMPS 439 +2 258 +3 215 +4 164 +5 191, watching the drop.

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I didn't see you started a new condo and posted this in answer to your question in yesterday's condo.

+11 is 408, if AMPS is lower he will probably have another low swing and if it is higher he may or may not. Is that accurate?
That's usually how it works. He could clear the bounce today. Like on June 17 his AMPS was 425 and PMPS was 153. Once you get more data, you'll start to see patterns. I don't know how quickly he'll clear the bounce. If you're worried you can leave some food out for him. Will he eat? Do you have other cats that will eat any food left out?
 
I could keep my cats separate but if I put food out he would eat it right away. I don't have a timed feeder yet. I could have my brother feed him at +4 or +5 but being an hour away from work and my brother doesn't have a phone, just has to message me on FB which I don't normally check at work so that worries me a little.

You guys will have to help me with the patterns haha I am pattern challenged!
 
Since he is at work with you, if you can get some tests in throughout the day, you'll be able to see how fast he clears this bounce.
 
Need to remember to add the +11 from last night and his numbers for today on the SS!
 
If you're taking your meter from home, most meters save tests for the last 30 days so they should be in the meter if you don't remember to write them down somewhere
 
I figured that out quickly, Chris! Lol this was after I wrote on and lost a billion sticky notes haha.
 
I almost shared a link of the SS with the vet but I remembered that the dose is off from what she thinks I'm giving! :$ So now I've written it all out lol
 
Well ran in to another snag. Grabbed the wrong bottle of strips and opened it for his +2 and it was empty! I had two strips sitting to the side because they gave me error codes twice in a row, saved them in case there were a lot in the bottle so I could ask for a refund. I used those, one worked, one didn't. The one that worked read 257. Going to text the vet and see if she can swing by WalMart and pick some up. I don't have any money on me or a car!
 
Jenn said:
I almost shared a link of the SS with the vet but I remembered that the dose is off from what she thinks I'm giving! :$ So now I've written it all out lol
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Would the vet be super mad if she knew you were using this protocol and basing the dosing on that?
 
I don't think she would be super mad but I'm not sure how she would take it. So far so gold. He is up to 425 at +8. Figure hes rebounding from the low yesterday.
 
This could be a delayed bounce. I'm glad you have him with you, since he can't seem to decide what he wants to do, numbers-wise! Sounds like your vet is awfully nice, but you might want to wait to reveal the changes until you have some good, solid improvement to show her. Just a thought.
 
Well, the fiance has to work late every day this week so Sam is coming to work with me all week. I'm excited to be able to track him throughout the day. Updated his SS. His +11 was higher than his PMPS so we will see what his +2 does tonight.
 
PMPS was 439 +2 is 258. Should I give some low carb food to slow the drop or just see what happens?
 
It's a good idea to feed LC for any drop of 100 points or more to try and slow the drop.

It does seem like he's slowing down. Maybe he'll surf tonight.
 
+4 164, planning on doing a +5 as well.
Will his nadir always be the same or will it vary based on the universe lol?
Will these 100+ drops slow down as he gets regulated?
A normal or regulated cat has a flat curve, yes?
 
Tricia & Cinco said:
Sounds like your vet is awfully nice, but you might want to wait to reveal the changes until you have some good, solid improvement to show her. Just a thought.
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I figure eventually we will catch up to each others doses haha. Today she told a foster of a diabetic dog that I was becoming a diabetes expert. Told her I can only do one species at a time! Lol
 
His nadirs might vary. That's normal. Some cats are consistent with a nadir at a particular time unless there is a bounce or New Dose Wonkiness, some cats have nadirs that move.

What can help is to look at the change from one test to the next and see how fast the cat is dropping. It looks to me like Sampson might be clearing a bounce tonight, although sometimes cats will bobble around while they are still in a bounce. You'll know if he's clearing it if he continues to go down until he (probably) hits green again. Bounce cycles override normal cycles.

The drops will improve when he doesn't go so high. The goal with feeding is to ANTICIPATE the drops, or catch them at the first sign, and feed then. Feeding after the cat's dropped 100 points in an hour or two is too late to prevent the next bounce in most cats. There is a good thread on "Feeding the Curve" in the thread I've linked below, look in the second half of the first post.

Yes, a tightly regulated cat will have more of a line than a curve - they might only vary 10 points in the entire day.

It's good to read in advance on shooting low, ie shooting the full dose into normal numbers, before you are faced with it. Take a look at the Where Can I Find? post - the three things that relate to shooting low when faced with a normal preshot:

1. Sticky on Shooting and Handling Low Numbers - look at becoming data ready & handling low preshots
2. Shooting low (second half of the post)
3. Tight Regulation Protocol, Myths Debunked - look at the post on shooting a dropping number

Take the time to look at the spreadsheets that are linked in the second thread. It really helps to see the actual change after shooting a lower preshot.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Feeding the curve the way BJ is suggesting is an advanced technique. You need a great deal of data and need to understand where onset and nadir are as well as know how your cat responds to HC/LC food. I've been doing this for quite some time with Gabby. I also implemented this strategy after having the date to know much more about her bouncing and I had the support of a very experienced Lantus user. By using food in this manner, you can end up in a situation where there are very low numbers because you have been preventing dose reductions. So in addition to knowing all of the above about your cat, you also need to have the skill and fortitude to know you can steer the curve, in some cases rather aggressively, if you need to. This is not a strategy I recommend for someone who is new at managing their cat's diabetes and/or is new to Lantus.

For many cats, given a sufficient amount of time on insulin, the bouncing self-corrects. Elian is a very good, current example of how a curve levels out.
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Feeding the curve sounds scary. I found my patient pants and am wearing them everywhere (much easier she I'm at work with distractions!) so I don't mind waiting for a bounce to correct itself.
 
maybe. the nadir is just the lowest point of the cycle. if he goes up after the 191, then you could say the 164 was the nadir. Because meters have a 20% variance, individual numbers are less important than trends when you're looking at cycles.

For example, if you have too much blood or too little blood, or the stars aren't aligned just right, the same drop of blood that a lab might measure at 200 could be 200-20% (40) = 160 to 200+20% (40) = 240 using a home glucometer. So the same drop of blood could be 160-240. If a person tests and then retests quickly, they likely will get different numbers.

Not to make you crazy with it . . . you've got a nice simple question. I tend to take tests at their face value so i don't go crazy. Low numbers are very important - high numbers are just high. You want to learn to look at the numbers over the course of about 3-4 days, concentrating on the low numbers, in order to evaluate the dose.

About your earlier quote about feeding the curve, you just have to get the hang of it. The idea is simply to prevent a cat from dropping too low or too quickly by using food. Ideally, that prevents the next bounce from happening. But you certainly don't need to do that at this point if you don't want to - just tuck it away in your mind (and bookmark the post) and if you want it later, you can always look it up again.
 
Just to add to the peculiarities of a diabetic cat, the nadir can change. Just because it's at +4 one day, doesn't mean that's where the nadir will always be.
 
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