? Can cats eat the high carb food if I'm prepared to increase the insulin?

[Ron]

Good evening everyone!

The trials and tribulations of trying to regulate my cat's diabetes continue. This will be my third post here. The first can be found in the Lantus forums here (post 1) and here (post 2).

I've been having a problem feeding my poor cat the proper low carb foods. No matter what I do, the healthier the food is for him, the less he wants to eat it. I've tried Fortiflora (worked for one day only), Buprenorphine administered orally (again ate for one day only), Cerneia (you guessed it!). Whatever it is I do, he won't eat the food. However, if I break out the food that is not good for him (the higher carb varieties that I keep around in case of emergency) he will generally devour it.

The question I have is: If he will only eat the higher carb foods and I'm prepared to monitor and up the insulin dosage, what are the downsides of feeding a higher carb diet?

Thanks everyone for your help and support, it's greatly appreciated.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

There have been a few who have to do that.... because it's so important for a diabetic to eat.
I'm going thru that right now.... but I'm lucky in that my cat isn't carb sensitive.... she does better on the 8-9% foods.

did you ever get something like ondansetron for nausea to try? Cerenia is better for vomiting.

One of the foods in the past that most kitties will eat ( besides that liver shake) is fried chicken.
Obviously you peel off the fried part and give them the meat inside....

 

[Ron]

The only meds I got from the vet was Cerenia and Buprenorphine and I got those only because I specifically asked for them. All in all, the vets have been really good about working with me to try to regulate Ratface but I get the sense that there aren't many people who will undergo the time and expense to try to treat their cats so it seems like we are both sailing in uncharted waters.

I'll try some fried chicken tomorrow (I'm assuming the chicken from a fast food place will suffice?) and I'll check in with the vet about Ondanse

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I have to wonder if he is still having a problem with nausea since he IS eating the high carb stuff OK

When you give him that, does he ever just sniff, lick and walk away, smacking his lips? (good sign of nausea) Or will he eat as much as you'll put down?

You might ask the vet for a script for Cyproheptadine too. It's an antihistamine but in cats, it acts like an appetite stimulant. Now if he IS nauseous, you don't want to give an appetite stimulant on top of it because the last thing you want is a cat that's sick to his stomach and also feels like he's starving.

 

[Ron]

About three weeks ago (just before the new spreadsheet was started) he was exhibiting what I now know to be signs of nausea. It was at that point that I switched food, lowered his dose and started regular testing. When he won't eat it usually exhibits with your listed symptoms. That's how it's been all day, but when I opened the high carb food he ran up and licked it for a bit before settling in to eat his fill. He's been going back and eating frequently though but he's always been a grazer.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Sounds more like he's being picky than anything else. If he's willingly eating the higher carb food, than he's most likely not having any nausea

You might need to find a totally new low carb food (something you've never tried) and see how that goes...IF he was nauseous when you were trying to get him to eat the other low carb, he may be associating that food with his nausea and now is thinking "this stuff makes me feel bad so I'm not going to eat it"...he's developed an aversion to those foods. A new food might not cause that reaction

 

[Louellen]

Most cats are going to balk at having to stop eating their favorite foods to eat something that's healthier for them. It's like having our favourite naughty dishes taken away from us and planting salads in front of us instead (unless of course, one loves salads )

The thing is...pretty much everyone is in agreeance (not just us but, vets as well) that they *should* be eating lower carb foods in combo with their insulin (same as for humans...diet and insulin). The problem is, we can't force them out of their patterns nor, explain why we need to do this so, we are caught with "spoiled fur children" who will actually get themselves into trouble by NOT eating or, not eating enough and causing liver issues.

How about we try to strike a compromise with him? Rome wasn't built in a day so, perhaps, (as I had to do) we need to go slowly with him?
Maybe, try giving him his favourite higher carb food (I'm assuming that you're meaning canned foods but, works with lower carb kibble as well if that's what Ratface is on) and MIX IN a small portion of the lower carb food? Then, over days, try mixing in more of the low carb and less of the high carb. It might take a couple of weeks but, hopefully, eventually, he'll be ok with a gradual switchover.

I'm still in a battle over wet and kibble foods, trying hard to get her over to the total canned food but, thus far, the best that I've been able to achieve is 50/50 with lower carb (m/d kibble from vets) and the properly advised canned foods.

What you want to do is to make sure that Ratface is eating. No matter what else, you want him eating because not eating can be worse for him than the battle for low carb.
I'd also suggest that as much of a pain in the you know where that it is, you go through the list of foods that are acceptable and posted here and get a couple of cans of each one that you can get your hands on in your area, trying to see if there's one that Ratface will like more than another. (I have to keep switching it up between brands and flavours to get Morrigan to eat).

Just keep on trying. It may take days and days and adding in small amounts of the proper foods in tiny quantities but over time and done slowly, he may just gradually adjust to having the new foods introduced. He may not even notice if done slowly enough.
But, remember that you may be tailoring his insulin levels to the higher carb foods so, as he will allow the new foods, you might find his levels dropping and need an adjustment on the insulin again to a lower dose.
But, first things first.

 

[Maggies Mom Debby]

Maggie was a total dry food addict and would eat nothing wet for most of her life. No people food, either. Not even baked chicken, tuna or tuna water. I did try all the tips and tricks. You just have to shoot a higher dose to compensate. It's not ideal, but they have to eat. You do what you have to do...

PS: This was years ago, and I got some grief from some people here. But I knew Maggie and ignored them. She lived a long life and her heart got her, not the diabetes. I also swore to feed low-carb canned food to any future cats, which I am doing.

 

[Louellen]

Maggie was a total dry food addict and would eat nothing wet for most of her life. No people food, either. Not even baked chicken, tuna or tuna water. I did try all the tips and tricks. You just have to shoot a higher dose to compensate. It's not ideal, but they have to eat. You do what you have to do...

PS: This was years ago, and I got some grief from some people here. But I knew Maggie and ignored them. She lived a long life and her heart got her, not the diabetes. I also swore to feed low-carb canned food to any future cats, which I am doing.

Maggie's Mom Debby, I completely understand what you are saying, why and what a struggle it is to get stubborn taste buds onto something that they don't want to eat. I'm there and while I'm still trying to get onto solely the proper canned food, the best that I can do right now is to allow her the lower carb prescription m/d kibble and the canned foods. I can't make her eat what she doesn't want to eat either. I think we both get one another on this one and why. I think it makes both them and us, totally miserable and creates a resentment situation on both sides. That's not living for anyone. It's struggling.

I think sometimes, we can get caught up in "numbers" and forget the cat themselves! We're so caught up in getting those numbers down (yes, for their sake first and foremost) that we tend to forget that their lives have to be happy too and so, we sometimes have to strike some sort of a balance so that both Sugar Kitty and us as their parents, can live our lives too. We can tend to become too "clinical" and not let cats be cats but rather, "patients". No one is enjoying anything then.

But, from your data in your signature, Maggie lived to a ripe old age and had to leave due to something or other. Even civie cats leave for one reason or another. And, yes....I feel SO guilty because I can't get Morrigan completely over to the much lower carb canned foods that I feel like I'm being a "horrible mom" for not being able to do so. Yet...truth is...by doing it with a lot of force, I was making her and I miserable. Like you, I recognize that Morrigan is Morrigan and she will do what she's going to do and not what she doesn't want to do (testing and shots aside as she'd still rather claw me silly than have them but I DO "force" those as I have to for her sake...and...we are getting better with it now). I have even tried all of the "low carb treats" and she won't go for them so, in compromise, I use the treats that she loves, even though not at all ideal for her and limit them to only the exact moment I'm going to inject and only 2 or 3 of them max. so that I can get those important shots into her.

I do admire so much, those who have been able to get their kitties over to the proper foods and test them 6 or 8 times a day, shooting down to really low numbers that would have me quaking in my boots all day, every day. I really do admire their strength, determination and resolve as well as their compliant kitty attitudes but, Morrigan is not one of them and I don't have those nerves of steel to fight her 6 or more times a day for testing and shooting down to really low numbers as other members do. I still am working on all of this as it's been 48 days since I started injecting and am still working on getting her numbers down as well as testing and foods and everything else that goes with it.

In looking at Ron's questions and your answers, I'm seeing more and more that I've seen cats who have had the best of care (both home and vet care) and only lived short lives. I've seen other cats (outside of this forum) who have been fed what we would consider "garbage" food, rarely taken to a vet, not treated fully for certain health issues etc., go on to live long, full, healthy lives. Go figure? Luck of the draw? Likely but, I also know that they need to live a CAT'S life in spite of our "humanizing" them and our quest to "save them"....which I am part of as well or I wouldn't be on these forums.

But, I'd like to add one more thing here. I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars in vet care, ER care etc on all of my animals and no matter how much I did, researched, spent etc., these pets lived how long they were supposed to live and nothing was going to stop them from passing. I may have delayed a few from passing earlier than what they did but, I couldn't stop it no matter what I did. That's not taking a defeatist attitude or saying that I'm not doing my very best for not only Morrigan but, every other pet I've ever had....but, rather it's taking a realistic point of view that we are not "gods" and can only do so much before Mother Nature takes over no matter what we do or don't do. Most of all, we have to live and let our pets live...even if it's not ideal circumstances. Doing otherwise, creates a wall/resentment and could make matters worse.

So, Don...do what you need to do for Ratface.
I totally agree with Maggie's Mom, Debby on this one! Just do the best that you can and keep trying but, don't go to war with it all and trying to be "ideal".

 

[Maggies Mom Debby]

Yes, we tend to get caught up with the "ideal numbers" and remission. That's great, but it's important to look at the whole cat.

I DO think testing is vitally important. It saved Maggie quite a few times.

 

[Louellen]

Yes, we tend to get caught up with the "ideal numbers" and remission. That's great, but it's important to look at the whole cat.

I DO think testing is vitally important. It saved Maggie quite a few times.

I totally agree with you there.

At first, I was hesitant to even try home testing as it wasn't done back when I had my previous diabetic cat over a decade ago now. As I was explaining in another post on another thread, I shook so bad that I thought I was going to chip my own teeth with chattering. I still don't like it much but, I found that from that "oh, I don't know about this..." I've gone to "I can't settle until I've tested" or, I can't give her shot until I've tested..even if her numbers have been consistent.

So, YES...THOSE numbers are extremely important to get "caught up in"! Agreed!