5/17 Marshmellow AMPS 304, +2 250, +4 194, +5 152

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Marshmellow & Steve

Marshmellow & Steve

Member Since 2015
yesterday

Good morning. Marshmellow is her usual rambunctious self, meowing 2 hours before feeding time, I wish she would be patient (like I'm one to talk)! I decided to increase today to 2.25 units. I do realize she is clearing a bounce, but we will monitor closely today (Marshmellow hates constant testing days). She had 2 good runs this cycle, but keeps bouncing so I can't really tell where here numbers are going, though from the ss I really think the increase is earned.

I hope everyone has a good day and vines and safe surfing to all the kitties!
 
Good luck with the dosecrease. If she seems to be zooming down today because of the bounce clearing, you may want to feed to try and stop her from going so low. That way she can hold the new dose for a while.
 
Thank you Carla, she does seem to drop quickly, so today I fed her 1/2 her food at 6, and the other 1/2 at 8 (+2) to try to spread it out a little bit. Wash she ever mad at me this morning, she KNEW she was short-changed! I am ready to feed her if necessary and also have the Karo syrup ready in case. My goal is to feed 1/2 her normal AM and PM and feed the other half at approx +3-5 depending on how her curve looks. On days she does well, she almost appears to drop throughout the cycle, perhaps by feeding her this way it will level the drop and maybe hold her numbers better. Again, thank you all for the encouragement yesterday, it was just kind of a pity-me day I guess. I don't expect things to change overnight, but yesterday I kind of felt like I ran up against a wall. :banghead:
 
We all have days where we get frustrated and it seems like nothing is working. I can remember laying on my kitchen floor (Furball's testing spot) crying when she was first diagnosed because I couldn't get things to work. Even after 3 years, I can still get frustrated. Vent here if you need to. We're here to support the beans too.
 
carfurby said:
I can remember laying on my kitchen floor (Furball's testing spot) crying when she was first diagnosed because I couldn't get things to work.
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You too?!?! Except for me it was the living room floor.....

I think patience was the most difficult thing I had to learn about diabetes....the carbs, the spreadsheet reading etc was nothing in comparison to the stupid patience required....and let's be honest, I am still not awesome at that.....


Sending many bounce clearing vines your way!
 
I'm in the same club as you guys. Tears of frustration and hopelessness, mine were on the dining room floor. Patience, patience, patience...grant me patience.

Clear the bounce, Marshmellow, we're cheering you on!
 
Morning Steve :coffee::coffee::coffee:

LOL, I was a kitchen floor tester, with much the same feelings as Carla, when I first started that journey with Mannie. and I so remember those brick walls. I ended up front loading his cycle with food, as he was a notorious cliff diver. He got half his allotment at shot time, a 1/4 at +1, the remaining 1/4 at +2. Sometimes there was an additional 1/4 at +3. It really did help him with the dives, and overall leveled things out a bit. We still had an occasional dive day, a rainbow day, but overall, he did much better. I hope it will be the same for Marshmellow. Good luck too with the new dose! Surf well little one.

Have a great day today. I hope all goes well.
 
I have been off the board a while just due to work demands so I'm trying to get caught up on a few things and one of them is Marshmellow :). I searched back through your condos to try and find out why you chose SLGS.

I know Julie mentioned to you some of the advantages of the TR protocol. Some thoughts I have are:
  • you are testing more than enough to follow TR
  • if you are frustrated with higher numbers, TR will allow you to raise the dose more often until you get to the good dose; you don't hold a dose that might not be working for a full seven days
  • the BG for reduction is 50 which would allow you to hold a dose that is working for her longer. The longer she stays in good numbers, the more her pancreas heal
  • you don't need to do a weekly curve; spot checks are great
Of course, it's still your decision but IMHO (and that is all it is), I think Marshmellow would benefit from TR if you are comfortable doing it and it *might* make you feel more comfortable.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I think Marshmellow would benefit from TR if you are comfortable doing it and it *might* make you feel more comfortable.
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Thank you. I think I will give it a try. My difficulty is because she bounces a lot that I am not quite sure when to try change the dose if she is bouncing. Yesterday, She hadn't quite cleared the bounce, but I decided to change the dose because of where her nadirs have been.

Per the protocol, "If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further." Do this mean any reading of 50? Thanks again.
 
Marshmellow & Steve said:
Thank you. I think I will give it a try. My difficulty is because she bounces a lot that I am not quite sure when to try change the dose if she is bouncing. Yesterday, She hadn't quite cleared the bounce, but I decided to change the dose because of where her nadirs have been.
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Well, those of us with bouncy kitties all deal with this. With almost five years of FD under our belts, I recently made the colossal blunder of raising the dose as Gracie cleared the bounce. Check out her SS on 4/24. She had been bouncing some but clearing it fast but I wanted to see a lower overall curve so I increased using the knowledge I have about Gracie (that she often gets a high before a break). But...I'm not in control of her endocrine system and she came screaming down which caused a horrific bounce that I just had to wait out. The take home is, you will probably have the same or similar scenario occur and it will occur whether you are doing SLGS or TR. I rarely agonize over bounces anymore but I did that one. :mad: If you do increase and the bounce clears that cycle, do what you did and what I did...monitor closely, feed the curve to slow it down.

If you look back to the night before you increased, I mentioned that Marshmellow's red number might be the high before the break. That's where it looks like she's coming down but then pops way back up. She how Marshy started down the morning cycle of 5/16 and then went way back up again...then a little down for her 5/17 PS. Just something to look for that might help you decide whether to increase or not if she's bouncing. And it is ok to increase during a bounce. It's the bounce clearing cycles where we want to try and avoid increasing....but it happens.


Per the protocol, "If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further." Do this mean any reading of 50? Thanks again.
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Any time Marshy goes below 50, she earns a reduction. However, there are caveats that we need to consider. For example, back-to-back cycles where she goes below 50. A higher dose can affect up to six subsequent cycles which means another low number right after you've reduced is probably from the depot of the dose you reduced from. We usually like to give it at least four cycles before you reduce again but sometimes situations warrant that you take another reduction during that period if numbers drop. We can help you with that. You have to learn Marshys patterns. I know that Gracie is one of those that the depot from a higher dose affects her pretty much six cycles so unless she really tanks in me in cycle five or so after a reduction, I don't give her another. ECID and know thy cat. And know that they aren't always the same :)

We also need to see how she holds reductions. Some cats go up and down around a dose as one seems too much and one seems too little. We have ways to help with that so if we see Marshmellow doing that, we will discuss "plan B" with you.

Sound good?
 
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Yes, thank you. I am trying to see a pattern, but it is difficult :facepalm:. It does seem she decreases throughout an entire dosing, see 4/20, 4/23, 4/27, 4/28, 4/29, 5/11. I am assuming this is d/t the bounce? (The only one that doesn't appear to follow a bounce is the 27th). But I like the idea of TR, I think between my wife's new hours and mine, we should be able to manage, though because of schedules, may have to stretch an occasional cycle. But looking at the ss, I am not always sure if there's a bounce or if it's food!
As for reductions, we'll worry when we get there (I am hoping sooner than later), but I appreciate the input, as this does get a little confusing. I just wish Marshy wasn't afraid of me!
 
She may be a late nadir kitty. There are different things going on in those cycles but what I am seeing, overall in those cycles is she needed more insulin. I think the 27th is very consistent with that.

Going from high numbers to lower (but not low blue or green) and then high is not always a bounce. Sometimes it indicates the need for more insulin. Sometimes, like 4/29, she was out of duration and had no carryover or overlap. It takes a very long time to learn to read SSs as there are so many nuances (e.g. Like sometimes members think high numbers after a lower one is always a bounce but it might not be....things might have changed and the kitty needs more insulin).

The goal for you all is to learn the protocol or whatever approach to regulation you choose to use and to study her SS, and others, to learn what different patterns look like on a SS. We are here to help you with that but don't ever beat yourself up....it's a steep learning curve. And even the most experienced members may occasionally miss a pattern on the SS. The forum is great because of all the eyes....where someone might not see a pattern, somone else might.
 
Hi Steve,

I am sorry Marshy is afraid of you. My daughter had a rescue dog who was mistreated and she was afraid of men. It took lots of love and patience to win her trust, but she became devoted to the male members of our family. But it took time and consistency.
Who feeds Marshy? If it is your wife, maybe you could start to give her her food as often as possible. And if you can be the one to give her the treats that will help gain her trust. It will take time but it can be done.

My cat Sheba is a very bouncy cat. She came out of remission 18 months ago after a couple of years of being food controlled.
The first time round she went into remission easily and quickly but the second time she started bouncing almost from the beginning, but I didn't recognise it....well I didn't know such a thing existed and either did my vet.
Nothing seemed to help and I was very worried and concerned about it all.
I found FDMB about a year ago but (stupidly) didn't join, but read all I could from the stickies and the SS and condos. I learnt a lot and found bouncing, but I still couldn't control it. Finally I came to my senses and joined FDMB in Feb this year and within a very short period of time I was getting much better numbers with the help and guidance from Wendy, Julie and Chris.
I was taught how the feed the drop when she started dropping fast. I got immediate results from doing that but she still managed many times to escape me on the drops and we would have another bounce. I tried different carb foods and at different times during the cycle.
I learnt when her onset of insulin was after the shot and started to feed before that so she had food aboard when she started to drop. It is a matter of trial and error and giving each one time to see if it works.
Sheba is still a work in progress, but I am getting there with it all. I am home a lot of the time so it is easier for me.
I get half hourly tests from +3 to +5 or +5.5 because that is her onset of insulin and when she falls the quickest. I feed extra in response to the tests.
If you work during the day you could put food out in a feeder in the earlier part of the cycle ( you probably do this already) and then do the extra testing during the weekend or at night to find Marshy's onset and fastest drop times and then you could load the feeder accordingly.

I also don't try and work out the dose on my own at this point. I leave that to Wendy, Julie or Chris because they have much more experience reading SS. I follow their directions. But I do study the SS and I know Sheba's normal response times to the insulin....but of course, just when you think you have it all sorted, they throw in a twist!

The greatest thing I have learnt is patience. I am not the most patient person but I think I am now with Sheba. It still gets me down at times though. Don't beat yourself up, be kind to yourself. Little steps, little steps gaining Marshy's trust. You will and then she will be devoted to you.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
If you work during the day you could put food out in a feeder in the earlier part of the cycle ( you probably do this already) and then do the extra testing during the weekend or at night to find Marshy's onset and fastest drop times and then you could load the feeder accordingly.
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We have two cats, Marshy and her civie Lizzy. They are both rescues, very close in age. We adopted Marshmellow a little over a year after we adopted Lizzy. I won't say they don't get along, but there is tension at times! Lizzy is a grazer who we are trying to adapt to wet food, but she still prefers dry food. Marshy is quite the pig, and as soon as Lizzy steps away from her wet food, she will devour it if we're not on our toes. Therefore, I really don't think a timed feeder will work in our particular situation, though I like the idea. At this time, I am the one who mostly feeds her and gives her snacks, but I am also the one who does most her testing. I do agree with you though, as she (Marshmellow, not my wife) is getting a little more trusting of me and will even sit with me after I test he glucose, she just won't come to me yet!

My wife works 3-1130 PM 4 days a week, I work 7PM-8AM 3 days a week, and we both work the same weekend. We are going to attempt changing to the TR protocol, but loosely as we will have to adjust so someone is able to home to monitor on change days, so 3 days to increase could theoretically be 3,4, or 5 days. But I do like the idea of not waiting 7 days.

Yes, I had a bad day yesterday, but the folks here are great. I try not to beat myself up, but this whole situation has tested my fortitude, and I know it will be a challenge for as long as Marshy is with us (hopefully a long time). Thank you Bron for you input, I don't know what I what I would have done if I hadn't found this site!
 
The early days in dealing with a diabetic cat and trying to learn all of this can be very overwhelming. You're doing really well - just hang in there and take it a day at a time. One thing that helped me a lot was when i had one of those light bulb moments - that this was punkin's illness, not mine. My job was to do the best I could to take care of him, which we did, and beyond that you simply can't control everything.

I tried very hard to control it all - i fed him the same food on the same schedule with the same volumes/carbs. Gave him his shots on time - got his acromegaly treated. But the reality is that insulin is a hormone and its action is not constant or even - i want to say - reliable. Absorption varies, responses vary. All you can do is to recognize that you can only do your best and to let go of those days when things go wrong.

The good news is that you have lots of people here in the same boat with you who totally get it. :bighug:
 
If Marshy is a food motivated, maybe you could sit down with a little treat in your hands and show her. Then let her jump up on her knee and then give her the treat (low carb of course, like a bit of chicken). Hopefully she might stay on your knee and let you pat her, especially if she gets a second bit a bit later.

I had another cat for a lot of the time Sheba was diabetic who had tummy issues and was on a totally different diet to Sheba. He was a grazer and liked to think about the food before he ate...but Sheba would eat it for him if she had half a chance, so I had to feed them separately. I used to shut him in a room on his own at night so he got all his food. He has since died poor darling, so I no longer have that problem, but I know it can be an issue.

Don't worry ....we all have bad days........and we all understand:bighug:
 
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