5.15.15 Zoey PMBG 33 +14 182 Shooting 3.5 units @+18

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Rose

Rose

Member Since 2015
hi!

I'll post a second post to catch everyone up to our dramatic day's events ... but real quick. Zoey was low (vet visit - enema) at PMPS ... dh just walked in door, took the test and it was low. I told him we couldn't shoot because it was too dangerous and he grabbed the honey and fed her two finger dips in it. ... thus the 182 two hours out. I know because she was so low she is going to bounce so I hate to not give her any insulin. Would I be okay to shoot her a half dose (2 units) and if so, does that move my new shot time to whatever time that is that we shoot?

Going to post this real quick so it doesn't get any later.

Tagging the ones I know give dose advice ... if there are others who stop by or are on the board checking, please advise.

Thanks bunches! @Wendy&Neko, @julie & punkin (ga)
 
Yes, your next shot time will be 12 hours after you shoot a late dose. I'm going to look at your spreadsheet. brb.
 
OT ... the day: It started out that Zoey and I were going to the office to open things up and cover for our secretary who was out. Was supposed to be just a morning thing and no clients were coming in until after lunch. ... comfy clothes and the cat in tow. Secretary was having an ultra sound and during the course, found out there was a problem with her baby. (Please add them to your prayers ... a one in ten thousand odds tragedy and really heart breaking). What turned into half a day of casualness was now full-on panic mode and I had a cat who wasn't wanting to eat. I threw her in the car, we rushed back home, I put her in the sauna with her canned food, in the can so she could see that I didn't "poison" it, while I threw on make up, rolled my hair, ironed my clothes and grabbed some high carb food for her and threw her back in the car. (Naturally I didn't throw her but she was definitely being moved a little faster than normal.) Got back to the office in time to get the coffee and cakes on the tables set up for the meeting and Zoey hid away in the very back office. (Always afraid someone will see the cat inside and then claim they're allergic and blame our cat for their meeting not being conducted.) I thought they'd never shut the doors, finally tested Zoey ... of course, being the drama queen that she is, she's dropping. As long as I kept opening a new can she would eat out of it for a bit. (Can't tell you how many opened cans I have in the fridge...) Got a phone call from our bookkeeper's daughter and our bookkeeper, who was supposed to leave the hospital today for therapy is being held for internal bleeding and not sure what they're going to do because of a defib. (So please pray for her, as well....). At this point, I'm just terrified to answer the phones. DH calls after his job finishes and finds out Zoey and I are still in the office and he stops by. Check Zoey again and even after feeding what I would say was at least 1.5 ounces of food (high carb, too) she was still down a few points. I had not seen that Zoey had urinated at all since yesterday afternoon and when I saw that her pee pad was still dry it dawned on me. DH, who apparently is now a cat whisperer, coaxed her to eat a good deal of food for him (half a can??) and it was at the end of her cycle when she should be going up in numbers so I sent her off with him to the vet to have her checked. He had instructions to check her again and feed her if necessary. So he's at the vet, they do another enema on her (she's impacted ... again) and he assumes they've checked her. No ... So that's how we end up at a 33. It was 7:00 before we got home. The goats were in the neighbor's yard. And we've got to be up early and ready to leave at 5:00 a.m.

Sure do wish I could click my heals and be back in Kansas, Toto.
 
@Dyana - Zoey's on some new Cushings medicine (Trilastane) and her numbers have been lower since she's been on it. The claim is that within a few weeks, her dose should be half of what it is. ?? I just hate to see her jump up in the reds and blacks which I fear is coming.
 
Boy, that sounds like a day. I'm glad she ate some.
If you shot 2 hours late, can your shot schedule change by 2 hours? You can slowly move it back to what you want it to be, but it will take about 4 days (15 minutes per cycle OR 30 minutes per day).
 
If you can be off by two hours and slowly make up the time (15 mins each cycle or 30 mins once a day), then I'd shoot 3.75u. She earned a reduction with that 33 and since you've stalled, it's fine to shoot the full, new dose.

If she is high in the morning, you can shoot an hour early to make up some of the time. But yes, the trilostane can csuse the numbers to drop as her condition improves so it could be a crazier time than it has been.

(((Rose))) Zoey is so incredibly lucky to have you and your DH and all this love and attention. That is where the miracles are coming from...plus our prayers don't hurt.
 
When you leave tomorrow, will Zoey go with you? If she was really high you could possibly shoot as much as an hour early, but two hours is too much. I think you have two options. Door A - skip. Door B - shoot at +18, which I think would be 11PM tonight, then skip tomorrow morning and do 18 hours after her last shot, which would be 5PM and back on track.

Due to the Vetoryl, maybe you want to do a .5U reduction this time? When Neko started screaming down the dosing ladder after SRT and her IAA broke, I took reductions when she hit 70. Just gave me a little safety margin. Just something for you to think about.

Been thinking of you today - will add your staff members to the vines list.:bighug:
 
That was one huge drop.
Unless you want to be up all night monitoring, I think I might skip.
 
Okay. Due to the improvement that I really think I'm seeing since she's been on the Vetoryl/Trilastane, and the definite preference to a 5:30 shot time, I think I will follow Wendy's suggestion and also decrease the dose the extra amount. We are going to be back out in the swamp lands tomorrow so I wouldn't mind if she wasn't quite so low. It's at least a half an hour to internet reception, and an hour to civilization/vets if something happened. Hoping tomorrow will be the last trip up there but I say that week after week, so.. whatever. And yes, Zoe will be with us. :D

@Marje and Gracie -- you posted something a couple of nights back and I've just not had a chance to get caught up yet .. but you said that sub q of any b12 would not really affect her other than maybe make her have more energy? Does that mean we should be doing her injections IM? Vet #1 had said to inject her IM but Great Vet said no need. Now I'm confused because I was thinking the B12 would be a big help for the neuropathy but if not, then do I need to give it to her at all? Or is it just an absorption issue with Zoe's conditions?

Okay... DH just came home with some onesies for Zoey and I'm laughing so hard. Really wish I could share this visual with everyone. He's picked her out 5 different ones and he's showing them to her. He's decided that she really likes the one with cupcakes. LOL Yeah ... he did. He has dressed her in cupcakes so she can have sweet dreams. ROTFL!! :p
 
Rose said:
Okay... DH just came home with some onesies for Zoey and I'm laughing so hard. Really wish I could share this visual with everyone. He's picked her out 5 different ones and he's showing them to her. He's decided that she really likes the one with cupcakes. LOL Yeah ... he did. He has dressed her in cupcakes so she can have sweet dreams. ROTFL!! :p
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I love this...it's an incredibly sweet visual! Piling on more prayers for all of you, as well as your coworkers...
 
Zoey's Sweet Dreams Nightie.jpg
 
Sweet girl!!!

There are two forms of B12 that are primarily used in cats:

Methylcobalamin which is best given orally and poorly absorbed subq and is given to fight early anemia in CKD cats and also to resolve neuropathy in diabetic cats. It is also helpful for cats with pancreatitis and helps with neurological disorders.

Cyanocobalamin which is typically given subq and helps give older cats a bit of energy and also helps with IBD. There is concern about aluminum that is often found in injectable B12 which is probsbly not an issue if the kitty occasionally gets an injection.

While B12 can be given IM, recent studies show it is just as effective given orally.
 
@Wendy&Neko +18 would be 1:00 a.m.. I can shoot that but I like the idea of the 11:00 p.m. shot better. Is +16 okay? (Due to vet visit a couple of nights ago, we were delayed and now we're shooting 7:00 a.m./p.m.) Ideally, I'd like to have her at 5:30 a.m./p.m.
 
@Marje and Gracie .. I knew you and Ms. Gracie would appreciate Zoey's new nightie. :smuggrin: Thank you for the info on the Bs. I understand, now, the way you explained it. So what about B-complex? B-complex is what Vet #1 said to shoot IM and up until the B12 Cyanocobalamin I was shooting it subq on Great Vet's instruction. I was worried about all the extra stuff in the complex and asked for the b-12. Should I continue to shoot the B-12 for her energy levels, and in addition, order some more Zobaline for the B-12 methyl? (High-priced stuff right there, now.)
 
BJM said:
Maybe just skip until tomorrow morning at 5:30
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You don't think she'll be up there in the reds and blacks to go that long? I'm going to test her in a few minutes. If she's climbing, I really hate to leave her high that long. At this point, it seems like an eternity.
 
It may seem like an eternity, but given how reactive she was today with the food change plus insulin, letting that settle until tomorrow morning and starting on your desired schedule may work out best for both of you. You'll be able to monitor better how she does during the day.
 
She's at 410 right now. I totally get what @BJM is saying and that thought crosses my mind about her being all over the place while we're in the middle of nowhere or on the road. Everything in me though is saying to not let her stay so high for so long. Can I shoot a 2 and then shoot a reduced 3.5 tomorrow night at 5:30? That would be the reduction from today's low BG plus a little extra because of this new med that we're not familiar with.

@julie & punkin (ga) and any other advisors still online (just looked and some are gone already).
 
You need to give at least 10 hrs in between the shots, preferably 12. I'm not sure what your times are, ie, if what you're suggesting allows that much time. I think you're suggesting a part of a dose now and a part of a dose in less than 12 hrs - I wouldn't do that personally.
 
Too bad you can't use a shorter, non-depot insulin to cover the gap. A unit or so of NPH might tide her over.
 
LIke what Wendy said, but less dose now. Wendy suggested I dose at +18 (which she thought was 11:00 p.m. here ... it's not, that's +16) a reduced dose of 3.5 units. I'm suggesting that I take it lower than that ... maybe a 2.5 and shoot at 11:00 p.m. (+16) and then wait and shoot tomorrow night at 5:30 and get it back on schedule with the full dose of 3.5.
 
Rose said:
Everything in me though is saying to not let her stay so high for so long. Can I shoot a 2 and then shoot a reduced 3.5 tomorrow night at 5:30?
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I'd want to get insulin in her, too.
There's no right or wrong answer. Given the circumstances, shoot as much insulin as you're comfortable giving.

@julie & punkin (ga) : my understanding is she's shooting an 18/18.
Rose, if I'm wrong, please say so.
 
a 16/20 .. shot at 7:00 a.m., wanting to shoot at 11:00 p.m. and then again tomorrow at 5:30 p.m.
 
to be clear: 7:00 a.m. shot a skinny 4.0; wanting to shoot a reduced dose tonight at 11:00; then shoot a normal dose of 3.5 tomorrow night at 5:30 (that's today's earned reduction, plus extra for new meds) @Jill & Alex (GA) @julie & punkin (ga) @BJM.

I do have some vetsulin/caninsulin in the fridge if that would be better.
 
If the Caninsulin has been stored properly, and tended to only last 10 hours or so, I'd be inclined to give a small dose just to keep her from zooming up any further. You hold the syringe. How long is until 5:30 your time?

I've used some N with Gracie when there was a wide schedule change using ProZinc and I needed to cover a gap of 4-6 hours. Note that ProZinc is non-depot, so that may factor into your decision.
 
Rose said:
to be clear: 7:00 a.m. shot a skinny 4.0; wanting to shoot a reduced dose tonight at 11:00; then shoot a normal dose of 3.5 tomorrow night at 5:30 (that's today's earned reduction, plus extra for new meds) @Jill & Alex (GA) @julie & punkin (ga) @BJM.
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That sounds fine. Would you note on her ss that this morning's dose was a skinny 4.0? It might be important later.

I don't have experience with the Caninsulin and can't help you make a decision regarding it.
 
5:30 is six and half hours out. I shot a 2.75 of Lantus. I will just have to monitor her closely tonight. The vetsulin was over 60 days old and cloudy.
 
The thing about a B Complex is you need to be sure that what is in it is in balance with what she needs. B Complex injections also sting. I'm just giving you this as info to discuss with your vet. I have given B Complex but it was oral and for my CKD kitties. The one I used was not suitable for diabetic cats. I am just not sure about whether it will help Zoey or not and so I'd discuss it with Great Vet...and decide whether it's worth it knowing it will sting her. Cyanocobalamin injectable is a pinkish red and does not sting.
 
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You guys deserve a medal for your total devotion, Zoey is very lucky to have you both. Prayers continue for her recovery:bighug: she looks so cute in her cupcake onesie.
Have a safe trip.
 
Zoey is so damn adorable in that onesie ! sure hope it gave her and your sweet dreams. Wow,you guys can't catch a breath with everything going on. More vines, prayers and added for your staff too. Keep on hanging in!!
 
Phew....I am exhausted just reading your condo!!!

I am joining the chorus of not only your awesome DH but how cute her outfit is!

I would have loved to be there when he got them if a sales person asked if they could help.....no, just looking for some onsies for my cat is all..

Lots of vines to you as well as your employees
 
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