Diabetes & Eating

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scattergun2570

Member Since 2013
I am great need of advice..I have a 16yr old female who was
diagnosed with Diabetes 2 yrs ago. After getting her off dry food,she
was able to be taken off Insulin..and ate "normally". Anyway,the
Diabetes has returned,which they checked by Urine..she was put back on
Insulin this week, 1 unit every 12 hrs after eating. The trouble I am
having is the doctor said to feed her one can of food every 12 hrs.
Roughly 6 hrs after she eats,,right around midnight or so,,she starts
crying and howling,,seems pretty obvious she wants food.. So I ask
you,,is every 12 hrs the way to go? She is telling me there is no other
way to do this..she is crying all through the night,and we are not able
to sleep,,we feel horrible about having to feed her as suggested. Your
thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately she will only eat Fancy Feast Fish & Shrimp Flaked,I know its not great food,,but at 16,its unlikely she will change..
 
I disagree with your vet...
my cat was in remission ( until ibd/lymphoma) and the best way to support a diabetics pancreas ( besides insulin) is to feed frequent small meals.



as a diabetic, her body is dysfunctional.... it's not getting the nutrition it needs.... so she is literally starving.
Plus, we use food to help steer the blood glucose up when we need to ... when numbers get too low.

Are you testing yourself?
Which insulin are you using?
I'm going to go look up ff fish and shrimp flaked...

we also have a food list... low carbs are key with a diabetic.... ( under 10%)
 
okay... low carb... but the phosphorus is way up there.

Has her urine specific gravity been checked?

Have you ever tried Tiki Cat.... they have several shrimp /fish flavors ....

I understand the shrimp .... that is my girl's favorite food... but she wants them raw.
 
I disagree with your vet...
my cat was in remission ( until ibd/lymphoma) and the best way to support a diabetics pancreas ( besides insulin) is to feed frequent small meals.



as a diabetic, her body is dysfunctional.... it's not getting the nutrition it needs.... so she is literally starving.
Plus, we use food to help steer the blood glucose up when we need to ... when numbers get too low.

Are you testing yourself?
Which insulin are you using?
I'm going to go look up ff fish and shrimp flaked...

we also have a food list... low carbs are key with a diabetic.... ( under 10%)

Humulin I believe.. I am not testing myself,don`t know how..don`t have a meter...they said to bring her back Sunday to test again,but I did put out some food for her. I don`t know what to do in the morning,,give her the 1 unit with a whole can? give her half a can? with less insulin or no insulin? Does anyone know a good vet in the NYC area?
 
Regarding several small meals:

I agree. Katie gets a small meal every 4 hours. I started feeding her like that before she went OTJ and still continue to do so.
I had THREE vets commend me for feeding her that way, said gets the BG nice and level.
 
okay... low carb... but the phosphorus is way up there.

Has her urine specific gravity been checked?

Have you ever tried Tiki Cat.... they have several shrimp /fish flavors ....

I understand the shrimp .... that is my girl's favorite food... but she wants them raw.

don't know if specific gravity was checked,,,The Fish&Shrimp is low carb?
 
My diabetic was free feeding for 14 years and then he was diagnosed with diabetes last year and the vet informed me that they have to eat a full meal at the time of each insulin injection which I thought was going to be tricky. My vet initially told me to feed mine twice a day as well but just like you mine was crying out for food constantly. So now 9 months later I still continue to free feed my Julius but only leave out small amounts for him to nibble on then I make his main meals at the time of his injection. I told my vet and she said as long as his main meals are at injection time thats fine. I use Lantus insulin and free feeding on Lantus is great I've read many times because it helps with the insulin distribution over the 12 hours before kittys next shot. It took a few weeks to get mine use to having a main meal at certain times but he got there. As long as your kitty eats lots before or after his insulin injection you should be fine to give a little snack. The vet may have said that to try and get your kitty to lose some weight and not feed her too much all day long but honestly if your kitty is howling and hollering at midnight its crazy not to give her a light snack but the trick is to make sure she doesn't get too much so she eats lots with her morning injection. My Julius only eats Fancy Fancy and loves the Fish and Shrimp. You mention the flaked version I feed mine the pate version which is low carb and doesn't fill him up on cereals (check the ingredients on your flaked can if it has cereals in them). The cereals will make kitty feel really full, the low carb varieties have no cereals so kitty gets some food but won't feel bloated. I feed my Julius the low carb FF between his main meals so I know he will be hungry by the time injection time comes round.
 
Humulin I believe.. I am not testing myself,don`t know how..don`t have a meter...they said to bring her back Sunday to test again,but I did put out some food for her. I don`t know what to do in the morning,,give her the 1 unit with a whole can? give her half a can? with less insulin or no insulin? Does anyone know a good vet in the NYC area?
 
Home testing isn't hard and it so beneficial, because the trip to the vet is stressful and can impact the bg number. You don't have to buy the pricey AlphaTrak meter from the vet. You can use a human meter, the people here will help learn how.
 
Humulin N or NPH (also made as Novolin) lasts about 6-8 hours in most cats. This leaves the glucose uncontrolled anywhere from 4-6 hours before the next shot. Given that your vet prescribed this, I suspect he is not up to date on feline diabetes management, or is unaware of some longer acting options which will not break the bank in up front costs, such as BCP PZI or ProZinc. There are 2 newer insulin options in the US - Lantus and Levemir - which work very differently than PZI or ProZinc, as they overlap effects between doses. They also have steep up front costs and we've found that ordering from a reputable pharmacy in Canada reduces the costs considerably.

N insulin hits pretty hard, drops the glucose fast, then wears off abruptly, putting the cat on something of a roller coaster ride with each dose. We have a guide for using N optimally in cats here. One really important note is to test, feed, wait 30 minutes, then inject or shoot the insulin. Getting the food in a bit before the N helps offset the steep drop that usually happens.


With that 6-8 hour duration, you'll want to check how low she is going at the lowest point post-shot (called the nadir) for her safety. Glucose that goes too low, or hypoglycemia, can kill very quickly. This low point usually happens about +3 to +4 hours after the shot. You'll need an inexpensive glucometer such as the Target Up and Up, or the WalMart ReliOn Confirm or Confirm Micro, matching test strips for the meter, and lancets labeled for alternate site testing (25-28 gauge). I'm finding the new version of test strips for the Confirm are great - they barely need any blood at all, so its easier to get a successful test. Additional info on glucometers and what the numbers mean are in my signature link Glucometer Notes. Any time the glucose goes below 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer, you need to intervene to keep her safe. Instructions are here.

For newly diagnosed cats, it is also helpful to assess a number of other things, such as urine ketones, consumption and elimination of food and water, checks for dehydration, and so on. Many of these are described in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools.

 
Bandit has eaten 4 meals a day (every 6 hours) since he was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009. He went into remission in 2010, and he was in remission for 5 years eating low carb, canned food 4 times a day. Cats' metabolisms are twice as fast as people's or dogs', so it is actually best for for cats to eat smaller meals, 4 times a day, and it helps level out their blood sugar which contributes towards good regulation. The Fancy Feast Fish & Shrimp flaked is low carb so it is fine for him to eat for now, but you might want to try out some other foods just because it is a bit high in phosphorus for a senior cat. If he seems to like shredded, chunkier foods, maybe you can try out some Tiki cat, some BFF (Best Feline Friend), or some Weruva? There are lots of good shredded fish, non-fish, and combination flavors of both, and most a bit better in the phosphorus department. The BFF is especially good at enticing picky cats! (I linked to store locators for the foods above).

Honestly, I would look for a different vet. I'm in upstate NY so unfortunately I can't recommend a vet in the city, but I am hoping someone here can! Here is why I think you should change vets. First, the vet is not following the current treatment recommendations for diabetes in cats in several ways--home testing should be strongly encouraged (and a human meter is just fine). Second, Humulin is not a good insulin for cats, and most cats do not do so well on it because it just doesn't last long enough to provided good control over blood sugar levels (the recommended insulins for cats are Lantus, Levemir, and Prozinc). Third, it seems like your vet already has a "my way or the highway" attitude when it comes to the feeding time, which doesn't make it likely she'll be receptive to you wanting to change the treatment she is recommending. You definitely need a vet that is a bit more up to date in their treatment recommendations, and is willing to work with you.

So now for some tips! You can pick up a human meter at the drug store and learn to test at any time--you do not need your vet's permission and it will save you the money you're spending getting the testing done there. Adjusting the dose based off numbers you've gotten at the vet's office is dangerous--most cats will have inflated blood sugar numbers because of stress. Many people here use the Relion meters from Walmart because the test strips are cheap (and having low cost test strips is very important because you'll need to test several times a day). Here are some links to help you get started with the testing: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/.

In regards to insulin--I can't speak to the price of Prozinc or Levemir because Bandit has always been on Lantus, but the initial cost of Lantus is more expensive than Humulin up front. However, with a little smart buying, you can get the costs down to where you can certainly afford it (especially if you start saving yourself money at the vet by home testing)! Bandit had to go back on Lantus this month because he was diagnosed with an immune disorder and had to start taking steroids, which knocked him out of remission. I just about died from sticker shock when I found out how much the price of Lantus has gone up in the past 5 years! Luckily, the wonderful people here directed me to Mark's Marine Pharmacy, where you can buy insulin online from Canada. The most economical way to buy Lantus is to have your vet write you a script for the Lantus pens (5 pack), and then draw the insulin out of the pens with a syringe just like you would a vial. Including shipping to NY, the total cost of the pens was $158, and handled properly, they will last me at least 10 months, if not more. So if you're spending $30+ dollars on the Humulin per month, ordering the Lantus this way is cheaper, AND it is less dangerous and will work far better for your cat.

Best of luck, and I hope someone will stop by with a new vet recommendation for you!
 
Bandit has eaten 4 meals a day (every 6 hours) since he was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009. He went into remission in 2010, and he was in remission for 5 years eating low carb, canned food 4 times a day. Cats' metabolisms are twice as fast as people's or dogs', so it is actually best for for cats to eat smaller meals, 4 times a day, and it helps level out their blood sugar which contributes towards good regulation. The Fancy Feast Fish & Shrimp flaked is low carb so it is fine for him to eat for now, but you might want to try out some other foods just because it is a bit high in phosphorus for a senior cat. If he seems to like shredded, chunkier foods, maybe you can try out some Tiki cat, some BFF (Best Feline Friend), or some Weruva? There are lots of good shredded fish, non-fish, and combination flavors of both, and most a bit better in the phosphorus department. The BFF is especially good at enticing picky cats! (I linked to store locators for the foods above).

Honestly, I would look for a different vet. I'm in upstate NY so unfortunately I can't recommend a vet in the city, but I am hoping someone here can! Here is why I think you should change vets. First, the vet is not following the current treatment recommendations for diabetes in cats in several ways--home testing should be strongly encouraged (and a human meter is just fine). Second, Humulin is not a good insulin for cats, and most cats do not do so well on it because it just doesn't last long enough to provided good control over blood sugar levels (the recommended insulins for cats are Lantus, Levemir, and Prozinc). Third, it seems like your vet already has a "my way or the highway" attitude when it comes to the feeding time, which doesn't make it likely she'll be receptive to you wanting to change the treatment she is recommending. You definitely need a vet that is a bit more up to date in their treatment recommendations, and is willing to work with you.

So now for some tips! You can pick up a human meter at the drug store and learn to test at any time--you do not need your vet's permission and it will save you the money you're spending getting the testing done there. Adjusting the dose based off numbers you've gotten at the vet's office is dangerous--most cats will have inflated blood sugar numbers because of stress. Many people here use the Relion meters from Walmart because the test strips are cheap (and having low cost test strips is very important because you'll need to test several times a day). Here are some links to help you get started with the testing: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/.

In regards to insulin--I can't speak to the price of Prozinc or Levemir because Bandit has always been on Lantus, but the initial cost of Lantus is more expensive than Humulin up front. However, with a little smart buying, you can get the costs down to where you can certainly afford it (especially if you start saving yourself money at the vet by home testing)! Bandit had to go back on Lantus this month because he was diagnosed with an immune disorder and had to start taking steroids, which knocked him out of remission. I just about died from sticker shock when I found out how much the price of Lantus has gone up in the past 5 years! Luckily, the wonderful people here directed me to Mark's Marine Pharmacy, where you can buy insulin online from Canada. The most economical way to buy Lantus is to have your vet write you a script for the Lantus pens (5 pack), and then draw the insulin out of the pens with a syringe just like you would a vial. Including shipping to NY, the total cost of the pens was $158, and handled properly, they will last me at least 10 months, if not more. So if you're spending $30+ dollars on the Humulin per month, ordering the Lantus this way is cheaper, AND it is less dangerous and will work far better for your cat.

Best of luck, and I hope someone will stop by with a new vet recommendation for you!


I really appreciate all this info... I have to mention that this is my moms cat,and she has been feeding her Turkey,,like Boars Head Low Salt Cold Cut turkey..for years. I am not sure if this is a problem,I didn`t see it as problem because there are practically no carbs..it was given to her a few hrs after eating her wet food when she would stare you in the face,,sit by the cabinet move..anywhere from 1/2-1oz was given..do you think this is bad?
 
No salt, no sugar, sliced turkey as a treat is probably OK, but I'd want a full ingredient list to see what was in it. Some additives are not good for cats, like sorbitol.
 
okay... low carb... but the phosphorus is way up there.

Has her urine specific gravity been checked?

Have you ever tried Tiki Cat.... they have several shrimp /fish flavors ....

I understand the shrimp .... that is my girl's favorite food... but she wants them raw.
I tried many brands,,she turns away from everything except Fancy Feast
 
I tried many brands,,she turns away from everything except Fancy Feast
Tiki cat, and the BFF and Weruva I mentioned are of a similar "shredded" texture to the Fancy Feast shrimp & fish flavor, where the other brands you tried were probably pate or gravy style foods. It's worth a try! You could pick up a few different flavors of 3 oz cans so you're not wasting a bunch...
 
I am in Westchester just north of NYC. If you are interested in home testing maybe we can arrange a time to meet? I have Lantus pens here if you choose to switch to that insulin and I could bring one. Not sure what side of the city you are in but Manhattan Cat Specialists have been very good with a few diabetic cats that I know.
I love Tiki Cat (chicken) and if I could afford it would be feeding it to my cats. I have switched to Weruva it's a little cheaper for almost the same style of food.
 
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