Could Really Use some Help

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Michaellh33

Michaellh33

Member Since 2015
Hello,
My cat just got diagnosed with diabetes last Thursday and I fell for the trap of paying more money than anyone should to reduce suffering in the world.
The vet prescribed dry food for his diet (I only fed it to him once because his blood-glucose level was 26 on a reading) but I try to feed my cats grain free canned food now. They prescribed a dosing of 2.5 units but I think it will be too much if I am feeding him the canned food and not the crap the vet prescribed.
My cat had ketoacidosis but he was released today. I could really use some help on getting a handle on this and the process.
I know there are a lot of resources on the site but I am already under a lot of stress from my current job that trying to find what I need has been a nightmare and it has only just begun.
So can someone please, spell it out very simply, as if to a child, and very concisely , help me through this.

My ultimate goal would be to get him into remission (of course) but I don't know what all of the terminology means.
What do the +4 or +7 numbers mean?
What is the general dose I need to give my cat? The vet prescribed 2.5 units but that is according to the higher carbohydrate food and I feed my cats grain free now.
Is there a more concise guide than just the huge mass of information on the stickies? (it may not seem like much to you but partnering my current stress level from my job and this new thing to deal with it is a lot for me, call me weak minded.)
 
Hello and welcome :)

We all understand how it feels to be dealing with a new diagnosis - we've all been there and we all know exactly how confusing and frightening the whole thing feels to begin with. It does get better, I promise!

So that we can help you better, can you give us a few pieces of specific information so we can point you in the right direction with information and just the relevant links to help you best? What insulin has your cat been prescribed? Oh, and can you let us know whereabouts in the world you are please? That 26 is a high reading on the international scale, but very low in US numbers so it does make a difference!

The +4 and +7 numbers are the BG readings we get that many hours after the last dose of insulin was given. 2.5 units does seem like a high starting dose, especially if you're switching to low carb food for your cat. There really isn't a standard dose we give - it depends very much on the cat, the insulin and the cat's response to the insulin they're on but there are people here who can guide you through getting to the right dosage with any of the insulins that are prescribed for cats.
 
Indeed, there is just so much. I am very grateful for the assistance.
He has been prescribed Lantus. I am in the US. He was behaving like it was low, kind of lazy and sleepy looking.
 
A brief precis on feline diabetes:

1) Grain free isn't low carb. Dry food lacks essential moisture the cat needs. Friskies pates except Mixed Grill are low carb. There is a downloadable list at Cat Info.

2) home blood glucose testing will help keep your cat safe, allow you to save money on vet bills, and monitor the dose. You need an inexpensive human glucometer like the Target Up and Up, or the WalMart ReliOn Confirm/Confirm Micro (aka the Glucocard 01 from ADW). The glucose should stay above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer and above 68 mg/dL on a pet meter.

3) Good insulins for cats are Levemir, Lantus, ProZinc, or BCP PZI. They are dosed every 12 hours.
Protocol for Lantus/Levemir
Protocol for ProZinc/PZI
 
Thank you - that really does help. My Rosa is a Lantus kitty too, so fortunately it's the insulin I know a bit about. :)

26 is very low in US terms - we don't usually like cats on insulin to hang around under 50 for long because, although a non-diabetic cat can run in the high 30s or low 40s, a cat on insulin has the insulin we've injected pushing their numbers further down where usually they'd be able to stay level in the 40s. At 26, we would have been getting you to feed high carb food with a little karo syrup or honey to bring his numbers back up! I'm glad you've found this board so we can help you to keep him safe and get his diabetes regulated.

2.5 units is definitely a very high starting dose for Lantus. There are 2 protocols we use here - Tight Regulation and Start Low Go Slow. The protocol you choose depends very much on how much you're going to be able to home test your cat. On the Tight Regulation (TR) protocol, the starting dose is 0.25 units per kg of the cat's weight. If your cat is currently underweight, you would use his actual weight to calculate this. If he's overweight, you would use his ideal weight for the calculation.

On the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) protocol, you would give 1 unit if he's not on a low carb wet food diet and 0.5 unit if he is. All doses for both protocols are twice daily.

So, unless your cat is extremely heavy, and meant to be that weight, 2.5 units would be too much of a starting dose!

The stickies for both protocols, as well as a lot of other information are on the Lantus/Levemir sub-forum but for now I'm trying just to give you the most relevant information to get you started so you don't get too overloaded with everything all at once. There's always time for catching up on the huge amounts of information later.

Are you already home testing or is that something you think you might be able to do? We do strongly recommend it here as it helps to keep your cat safe - at the very minimum, we try to get readings before we give insulin. Just as you wouldn't give insulin to a human without knowing what their blood glucose level is before you give it, we feel that it's much safer to know a cat's blood glucose level before giving a shot. That way, if a cat is low just before their shot is due, there is the option of avoiding a possible hypo by either reducing the amount of insulin given or skipping the shot completely.

One thing I would suggest, especially as he's already had a low reading, is that you prepare a hypo kit. You'll need some high carb canned food (the type in gravy works well - a lot of us here use Fancy Feast gravy lovers varieties for that) and some karo syrup or honey. That way, if he goes low, you have the means to bring him back up quickly and safely.

Edited - I see you are already testing him at home. That's great news and it really will help to keep him safe. Well done on being ahead of the game with that! :D
 
Michaellh33 said:
Thank you for your reply,
1) I am feeding them canned food. The brand is wellness. The vet prescribed royal canine diabetic dry food. I only gave him a small amount becase I got a reading of 26. I will review the list though.
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat-wellness.aspx
2) I have a human blood glucose tester.
3)He was prescribed lantus.
Click to expand...

Lets get that info into your signature.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
 
manxcat419 said:
Thank you - that really does help. My Rosa is a Lantus kitty too, so fortunately it's the insulin I know a bit about. :)

26 is very low in US terms - we don't usually like cats on insulin to hang around under 50 for long because, although a non-diabetic cat can run in the high 30s or low 40s, a cat on insulin has the insulin we've injected pushing their numbers further down where usually they'd be able to stay level in the 40s. At 26, we would have been getting you to feed high carb food with a little karo syrup or honey to bring his numbers back up! I'm glad you've found this board so we can help you to keep him safe and get his diabetes regulated.

2.5 units is definitely a very high starting dose for Lantus. There are 2 protocols we use here - Tight Regulation and Start Low Go Slow. The protocol you choose depends very much on how much you're going to be able to home test your cat. On the Tight Regulation (TR) protocol, the starting dose is 0.25 units per kg of the cat's weight. If your cat is currently underweight, you would use his actual weight to calculate this. If he's overweight, you would use his ideal weight for the calculation.

On the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) protocol, you would give 1 unit if he's not on a low carb wet food diet and 0.5 unit if he is. All doses for both protocols are twice daily.

So, unless your cat is extremely heavy, and meant to be that weight, 2.5 units would be too much of a starting dose!

The stickies for both protocols, as well as a lot of other information are on the Lantus/Levemir sub-forum but for now I'm trying just to give you the most relevant information to get you started so you don't get too overloaded with everything all at once. There's always time for catching up on the huge amounts of information later.

Are you already home testing or is that something you think you might be able to do? We do strongly recommend it here as it helps to keep your cat safe - at the very minimum, we try to get readings before we give insulin. Just as you wouldn't give insulin to a human without knowing what their blood glucose level is before you give it, we feel that it's much safer to know a cat's blood glucose level before giving a shot. That way, if a cat is low just before their shot is due, there is the option of avoiding a possible hypo by either reducing the amount of insulin given or skipping the shot completely.

One thing I would suggest, especially as he's already had a low reading, is that you prepare a hypo kit. You'll need some high carb canned food (the type in gravy works well - a lot of us here use Fancy Feast gravy lovers varieties for that) and some karo syrup or honey. That way, if he goes low, you have the means to bring him back up quickly and safely.

Edited - I see you are already testing him at home. That's great news and it really will help to keep him safe. Well done on being ahead of the game with that! :D
Click to expand...

He ate the vet prescribed food extremely fast and he seemed a little more perky afterwards. I will work on getting the kit together, is all of it available on ebay or amazon? or is there another advised approach?

I am not sure which one to follow. I would only be here in the morning then gone for at least 8 hours before I could do anything else. My cat weighs around 10 lbs, a little chubby I guess? So that would mean .5? He is eating wellness and a variety of them but all of them are below 15% carbohydrates.

I will pick up some fancy feast tomorrow after work.
 
If you're away from home for just 8 hours a day all at once, then you can do either protocol. But that may be something you'll want to think about over the course of a few days while you take in the information on both. Everything you need should be available in your local Walmart or similar - I haven't had to make a special order for anything I've needed so far. I use honey rather than karo because it's something we have in the house anyway. And the Fancy Feast foods are readily available in most of the major stores.

A weight of 10lb would put him on 1 unit twice a day as a starting dose on TR as he'd be about 4-5 kg.

It sounds as though he already likes canned food which is a big plus - a lot of us started off here with dry food addict cats and had to transition them to wet. We do usually prefer to try and keep the carbs below 10% where possible as most cats seem to do better at that level but for now, while he's possibly prone to going low from being on a higher starting dose, the 15% might well be what's kept him safe - I wouldn't change that too quickly until you can bring his dose down for a few days and his depot from the higher Lantus dose has a chance to clear.
 
Oh, I should add - I've heard of people using ice cream and other things to bring numbers up. The method doesn't matter as much as getting some sugar into him if he's really low like he was at 26 - you can use a sugar and water solution too...as long as you can get sugar into him somehow. It doesn't have to be anything you buy in just for him (apart from the high carb cat food - I'd assume most people wouldn't want to eat that themselves ;) ).
 
manxcat419 said:
If you're away from home for just 8 hours a day all at once, then you can do either protocol. But that may be something you'll want to think about over the course of a few days while you take in the information on both. Everything you need should be available in your local Walmart or similar - I haven't had to make a special order for anything I've needed so far. I use honey rather than karo because it's something we have in the house anyway. And the Fancy Feast foods are readily available in most of the major stores.

A weight of 10lb would put him on 1 unit twice a day as a starting dose on TR as he'd be about 4-5 kg.

It sounds as though he already likes canned food which is a big plus - a lot of us started off here with dry food addict cats and had to transition them to wet. We do usually prefer to try and keep the carbs below 10% where possible as most cats seem to do better at that level but for now, while he's possibly prone to going low from being on a higher starting dose, the 15% might well be what's kept him safe - I wouldn't change that too quickly until you can bring his dose down for a few days and his depot from the higher Lantus dose has a chance to clear.
Click to expand...

Please have mercy on me and spell out the acronyms. What is TR?

I am about to have to go to bed and straight to work tomorrow so what should I do for his dose tomorrow?
 
Sorry, Tight Regulation - it's the one that gives Brody the best chance of remission if that's what you'd like to aim for! :)

If you can test his level in the morning and post asking for help before you give the shot I think that would be the best thing you can do. At the very least, I'd reduce to 1 unit but if he's running low you might need to go less than that - I'm wary of recommending skipping a shot completely because he's recently had DKA. There should be people around in every time zone - I'm West Coast so might not be about that early, but there will be someone here for sure. If you post on the Lantus/Levemir subforum someone will help you. :)
 
manxcat419 said:
Sorry, Tight Regulation - it's the one that gives Brody the best chance of remission if that's what you'd like to aim for! :)

If you can test his level in the morning and post asking for help before you give the shot I think that would be the best thing you can do. At the very least, I'd reduce to 1 unit but if he's running low you might need to go less than that - I'm wary of recommending skipping a shot completely because he's recently had DKA. There should be people around in every time zone - I'm West Coast so might not be about that early, but there will be someone here for sure. If you post on the Lantus/Levemir subforum someone will help you. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, I would definitely like to go with that rout then. I will try to test him in the morning but I find that to be pretty difficult and nerve racking but I will do my best. Thank you again so very much for the help.
 
If you can, great. If you can't, it'll get easier - it really does become routine after a fairly short time - and we'll help you figure out a safe dose until you can get tests from him reliably. I'll look out for you tomorrow to see if there's anything else I can help you with. :)
 
There are very few nerve endings on the edges of their ears, they just don't like you fooling with them!

What you can do is decide on one spot in your home that's going to be your "testing spot". (I liked the kitchen counter because it was a good height and already blocked two escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) You can use anyplace though....even a rug on the floor as long as it's consistent

Take Brody there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Many cats really love freeze dried chicken (or other meat) or you can use real meat...as long as there's no seasoning/oil/salt/sugar (I used to buy chicken on sale, bake one piece for the cat, chop it up, freeze most and leave some in the refrigerator)

Soon, Brody will associate that spot with the yummy treat and not care what you're doing with his ears! Most of our cats will come running to their "spot" when we call their name, or just jiggle the test strips!
 
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