OT - Cashmere Update - Still Pudding Poo

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mariko

mariko

Member Since 2011
Happy Sunday, LL friends.

Since I consulted here about Cashmere's poo situation about 2 weeks ago, I thought I wanted to write an update. and maybe get some insights.......
I hope you don't mind I'm renting a condo once again.

Previous condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/ot-please-help-spirochetes.134547/#post-1388104

After 10 days of Tylosin, her pudding poo didn't really improve, so the vet extended the course of treatment from 10 days to 14 days.
I made one mistake during this time.
She was on probiotic (this product: http://www.olienaturals.ca/pages_pet_products_newbeginnings.htm) before she was put on A/B, but I took probiotic off the routine in the 1st week of A/B because I didn't want to shove stuff in her mouth 4 times a day.
I put her back on probiotic in the 2nd week of A/B.
She had the last dose of Tylosin on Friday morning, and she's been continuously on probiotic for about 10 days now.
I've tried other probiotic, Fortiflora and ReNew, but New Beginnings seems to work better.
She hates the taste, but I like it because since it's liquid and I have to syringe it, I can be sure all dose got in.
With powder type, she wouldn't finish her food. She doesn't like her food messed with.

After 2 weeks of A/B and 10 days of continuous probiotic, her poop is still soft. :arghh:
It's not runny, but just soft.
I know she's capable of pooping normal firm poo, because I've seen it before without help of extra fiber like pumpkin, so I don't think enough/not enough fiber is really the issue here.

I spoke with the vet, and we decided to run an IDEXX complete diarrhea panel after all.
But since the test has to be done pre-A/B, and she just finished the 2 week A/B treatment last Friday, we are going to wait a week and I will collect her poop sample next weekend.
I hope one week is enough for the A/B to not affect the test results.
If the results come back all clean, then we'll have to look for other possibilities - like IBD or allergies.

I thought it might be time for me to give up denying the possibility of food allergy, so I went and got some different types of non-poultry wet foods this morning.
She's currently on Wellness Turkey and Wellness Core Turkey & Duck because they happen to be the foods she eats.
She's a picky eater, so I don't know if she'd eat any of the foods I bought today.

The reason I didn't (want to) believe she might be allergic to the food I am giving is because she spent several months at the shelter before I adopted her, and during that time, she was fed whatever happened to be available by donation, and Cashmere didn't have any diarrhea issue.
She was free-fed mostly kibbles and one table spoon of wet every night.
And again, she was being fed whatever donated - I think mostly Hill's Science Diet kibbles and Fancy Feast wet.
Is it possible she wasn't allergic to poultry then, but she is now?
I really hoped she was a cat who can eat anything.
As you all know, having limited food option is very frustrating especially when the cat if picky.

Anyway, that's where we are at right now.
I can keep going about this forever because this is pretty much everything I think about these days, and I have nobody else who would listen to me talk about my cat's poo forever, but this is getting too long even for you I guess so I'll post now.

Thank you for listening, and any insights will be very much appreciated!

Mariko, Ginger & Cashmere
 
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Hi Mariko, I'm sorry you are still having the poo issue. I'm glad you are running a panel because it very likely could be a parasite. A friend of mine adopted two kittens about 7 months ago and she had the same problem. It is finally behind her. Food allergy is also a possibility and it can happen all of a sudden. My Tiffany was on Wellness for years and then started having diarrhea with blood in it. This was after 5 years on the same food. Of course I now know that the manufacturers change the food without notice. Anyhow, my vet had me change her food and she was fine until being on KD for early CKD which led to lymphoma. Now I think she likely had IBD that morphed into lymphoma and was allergic to something in the food. :bighug:
 
As crazy and backwards as it sounds....high protein foods can be too rich for some kitties. I have 3 littermates who just can't handle high-protein foods...I'm mortified to admit that the best food for their poo is Purine One Hairball and Iams indoor healthy weight. I battled it for YEARS....tried all sorts of things to keep them on what I considered to be a feline-appropriate diet (I discovered Dr Lisa years before Trix developed FD), with absolutely no luck - they constantly had runny poop. Many tests, several rounds of various meds, etc. I finally caved and tried this food that I think is not great at all....but it really has helped their digestive systems settle down. They're still not perfect, but they are WAY better than they were when these guys where on high protein food. Crazy, but true...
 
Thank you, Elise.
I almost hope we'd find a parasite, and it would be easy to treat, and she'd be free to eat what she likes.

She had been given a bunch of deworming meds; Advantage, Strongid-T, Ivomec and Drontal in May through June 2014 by the shelter before I adopted her, and I also administered a dose of Revolution a minute after I signed the adoption paper.
But maybe there are stuff these drugs can't take care of.......

Maybe her tummy is sensitive to something in Wellness.... maybe not the particular protein, but some other ingredients like carragreenan.... I don't know.
I'll try other brads tonight, maybe Ziwipeak Rabbit & Lamb or Nature's Valley Instinct Rabbit....
But she's so picky I doubt she'd eat.
I thought I finally found wet food she likes enough to eat an adequate portion and succeeded to get her off kibbles..... :(
 
FWIW, Wellness happend to be among the higher in fat content foods. Maybe some other brand that's lower in fat may help.

Gabby went through a period where she was having poo problems. My vet was prescribing metronidazole (Flagyl). Gabby would be on the med for a 7 - 10 days -- maybe 14, and be fine and then once the meds were stopped, we were back to diarrhea/pudding poo. The last ditch effort, after all of the blood work and stool samples which turned up nothing, was to try her on the metronidazole for a month. That kicked whatever was going on.

 
Thank you, Amy.
I did think about your kitties when this started, and though Cashmere might be the similar case...

I haven't tried everything yet, so I want to try other options first, but I thought maybe she might be like yours and needs carby foods.....
But then what makes sensitive to protein if not allergy? Not enough protease? Would it be worth trying digestive enzyme?
Or maybe rather than protein, her tummy might be sensitive to fat because foods with high animal source tend to be higher in fat too....
Hmmmm.... maybe should I run a GI panel after the diarrhea panel??
 
First see what the diarrhea panel shows and I'd try flagyl. It works better than flagyl many times. I also think it could very well be a parasite. JMHO. I'll check with my friend to see what they gave her in addition to flagyl.
 
Thank you, Sienne.
Coincidence! I was just thinking about fat contents when you posted!
I think I'll try to find other brands of foods she likes.
 
Thank you again, Elise.
First see what the diarrhea panel shows and I'd try flagyl. It works better than flagyl many times.
Click to expand...
What do you mean what works better than flagyl? Diarrhea panel to find out more?
If so, yes that is what I intend to do, and I will not put her on any meds until this test is done.
I will continue probiotic, and I will probably try other foods since sticking with one food isn't working anyway......
 
I meant flagyl works better than Tylosyn. In the meantime I'll find out what they gave my friend's kittens.
 
Ask the vet about an empirical trial of digestive enzymes and if it would be safe to try them without doing a lot more tests. There are both prescription and over the counter versions of these. If there is not a down side to trying them, it could help as problems with digestion can result in softer, bigger, and/or more odiferous stools.
 
Thank you, Elise and BJM.

Interesting.... I always thought Cashmere's poo is not only soft but bigger too.
Oddly, I don't find it particularly stinkier than any other poops, unless my nose is becoming poo-smell blind.

The fear I have with digestive enzymes is mouth ulcer.
I have seen/heard of more than 3 cats who developed mouth ulcers after pancreatic enzymes.......
So I have to look into it more to know which one is safer.....
 
They can be given in a small capsule so they don't affect the mouth, or stirred into food well. (No, not to incubate them, just to reduce the concentration in the mouth).
 
I like the capsule idea.... Cashmere is easy to pill.

But would you not worry about ulcers in the other part of digestive tract where the powder happen to be released? Maybe stomach?
Do you think I shouldn't have to worry about it once it's in?
I looked into this once before when I was considering digestive enzymes for Lucy, but couldn't find the answer.
 
Hi Mariko, sorry to hear Cashmere is not 100%, poor baby! Hoping Ginger is still okay? :bighug::bighug:

Did your vet test tp confirm that the other Campylobacter jejuni was gone? You had said that Cashmere had diarrhea in your last post, and I am understanding that she now has soft poop? Did her poop ever change consistency at all upon starting the Tylosin? That AB could have caused diarrhea is what I'm getting at. And I take it that parasites have been ruled out?
 
Thank you, Ruth.
That is my best case scenario too.
That the A/B killed the good bacteria too, and her issue is now a bacterial imbalance, and that if I keep going with the probiotic it will settle.
They did find bad bacteria called campylobacter jejuni under microscope last time, but we didn't test again after the course of A/B treatment.
It may still be there or it may be gone, but the vet said if it was just campylobacter jejuni, she should be better by now.
So instead of just looking at her poop in-house again, we are doing a complete panel.

It's hard to tell if her poop changed since A/B.
It did, sort of, but not dramatically.
It sort of got better, and got worse, and got better... strange.
I feel that it's less mucousy, but I might be just imagining it because I don't like to see too much mucous in her poop since I think it means inflamed intestine.
It's hard to tell from the poo because she put a lot of litter on it, but her bum is cleaner, I think.
Picture me picking up Cashmere and flipping her after poo to inspect her bum.
 
Mariko, i sure hope you can get your beautiful kitty better again. Sending vines, lots of them.

Ella & Rusty

Golly, I almost wrote exactly what Liz did!!
 
Mariko, your difficulty with Cashmere is completely outside my experience so I can offer no advice or suggestions. But I can send bushels of vines. On their way. Special delivery.

Marilyn and Polly
 
Hi Mariko! Food allergies are the bane of Billie's existence. We went to an allergy specialist last summer and learned that food allergy symptoms develop over time after repeated exposure. So it is very possible for a cat to somewhat suddenly react to a protein she has been eating for months or years, like chicken. Billie's allergies mostly manifested in skin symptoms - she got very itchy and broke out in hives. The specialist recommended a novel protein diet, so we switched to Instinct rabbit and pork. We also tried some Wild Calling, Hound & Gatos, and Evo, but Billie is picky and didn't like those as much. I think the novel protein food is definitely worth a try. It can take a few weeks for results...I remember learning something about antibodies hanging around in the liver? I hope it is a simple fix and Cashmere feels better soon!
 
Thank you, Liz, Ella and Marilyn, for your support!
Thank you, Deanna, for sharing your experience.

Well, I tried a couple of new food tonight, something other than Wellness.
She didn't like them.
I think she tried a few licks and that was it. :mad:
So I offered her some kibbles and she was very happy about that. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
This is going to be the way it goes until I come across something else she likes or until she leans to like the new food - I put down some wet I'd like her to eat, and if she doesn't eat enough, put down some kibbles.
I'm back to square one as far as transitioning to a healthier diet goes, but I need to find a way to stop the soft poop first.
It will be interesting to see how or if her poop changes with kibbles......
 
mariko said:
...But would you not worry about ulcers in the other part of digestive tract where the powder happen to be released? Maybe stomach?
Do you think I shouldn't have to worry about it once it's in?...
Click to expand...

Digestive enzymes do most of the work in the small intestine, which has a more neutral to basic pH compared to the acidity of the stomach. The small intestine is lined with a mucosal surface which has a layer of mucus to help protect the surface from ulceration from either acidity or enzymatic action. If you are giving enzymes due to a deficiency, you are attempting to restore normal levels which the body is designed to handle.
 
If I decide to try digestive enzymes, I guess the hard part will be to find a product which one dose is small enough to fit in a capsule.......
She's easy to pill, but she won't eat it voluntarily even in pill pockets, so dividing a dose into multiple capsules will be a torture!
Maybe I can have it compounded......
But first I'll see what the diarrhea panel shows.....
 
Mariko - sorry to hear that there's still an ongoing poo saga. I hope you can get it sorted out soon. The vet may have a suggestion about digestive enzymes.
mariko said:
Interesting.... I always thought Cashmere's poo is not only soft but bigger too.
Click to expand...
Poop from raw fed cats will usually be smaller/thinner and firmer than those from canned food fed cats. So I would expect it to look different from Gingers.
 
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