3/26 Princess AMPS=161, +2=83, +3.5=73, +4.5=88, +6=114

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Princess mother

Member Since 2015
Good Morning,
A few days ago, the vet told me to take Princess off the insulin. I didn't because I am waiting for her final reduction from .25 units which she is currently on. My concern today is that her AMPS for the last few days have been increasing although still in a good range (still using Alphatrak2 meter). She is also more hungry than she has been since she was diagnosed in Feb, even on days when I've given her some food between shots. Any thoughts?
Marie
 
Hi Marie!

That's a pretty big drop, as you said. It's now an hour later, so I'm wondering where she is now. It'd be a good idea to feed her and try to get her to flatten out and surf along.

Can you recheck her and post again?

And thank you for mentioning that you're using an AT meter. It matters.
 
Hi Marie!

That's a pretty big drop, as you said. It's now an hour later, so I'm wondering where she is now. It'd be a good idea to feed her and try to get her to flatten out and surf along.

Can you recheck her and post again?

And thank you for mentioning that you're using an AT meter. It matters.
Just tested again at +3, shes at 73. Giving her food. Did she earn her final reduction or is it too soon to tell?
 
With SLGS you'd reduce at 90 on a human meter, which is roughly 120ish on an AT. So yes, she needs a reduction.

Let me get some other eyes on her - I'm not sure with SLGS if you reduce to 0.1u or if you do an OTJ trial after 0.25u. Unfortunately, it doesn't really say on the sticky. I'll get back to you before your pmps with some feedback.
 
With SLGS you'd reduce at 90 on a human meter, which is roughly 120ish on an AT. So yes, she needs a reduction.

Let me get some other eyes on her - I'm not sure with SLGS if you reduce to 0.1u or if you do an OTJ trial after 0.25u. Unfortunately, it doesn't really say on the sticky. I'll get back to you before your pmps with some feedback.
Thank you!
 
I heard back from Marje/Gracie, Sandy/BK and Wendy/Neko - the consensus was that you test often enough that if you WANT to go to 0.1u as a final step before doing an OTJ trial, you could. When FDMB first started and everyone used the SLGS with Lantus, people did go from 0.25u to OTJ. In more recent years with the Tight Regulation Protocol, people were encouraged to decrease the dose to 0.1u in order to support the pancreas as long as possible before taking the cat off of insulin.

It's a little more confusing because you're using AT and we don't have any "official" documents that give AT/human glucometer conversions. The Tight Regulation Protocol doc by Rand/Roomp uses AT 68 as the rough equivalent to a human glucometer 50, which is 30% more (50 + 30% = 65), so we've made guesses that the normal range on an AT *might* be 68-160ish. But it's just a guess. The decision on what constitutes normal in an AT is going to be up to you. All of these documents below are using human glucometer numbers.

From the SLGS sticky on remission:
Remission:
Remission is reached when kitty can go 14 days without insulin while maintaining normal blood glucose values in the 50 - 120 mg/dL (2.7 - 6.6 mmol/L) range. Most will remain in the 50 - 80mg/dL (2.7 - 4.4 mmol/L) range. However, some will experience infrequent BG numbers higher than the norm. Continue feeding low carb food. Test the cat's BGs once per month. If BG numbers begin to trend upwards, it's time to bring kitty in to see your vet for a check-up. Common reasons for kitty falling out of remission include dental issues, infection, inflammation, pancreatitis, etc. Just about any illness or disease can do it.​

From the Tight Regulation Protocol sticky on remission:
  • Since 2006 we've encouraged those practicing Tight Regulation to attempt reducing the dose from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely. During a two week OTJ trial, you want to see mostly green numbers (under 100) with only a few random blue numbers between 100 - 120 to help ensure a strong remission.
Remission:
  • From Tilly's Diabetes Homepage:
    Phase 5: Remission

    "14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.

    Approximately 25% cats that achieved remission using this protocol relapsed and required insulin again (frequent causes are hyperthyroidism or bouts of pancreatitis). Therefore, it is important to keep your diabetes kit up-to-date. Then you can react immediately by giving insulin and home testing. Importantly, the sooner you react to a relapse (i.e. preventing hyperglycemia and initiating other necessary veterinary treatment), the more likely a second remission will become.

    The longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission. Many long-term diabetics get stuck in Phase 3 or 4. Yet there is a benefit of using this method for such a cat as well: keeping the cat's BG levels as normal as possible is much healthier for it long term. Insulin requirements will often decrease to very low levels too."


What direction do you think you'd like to go with Princess?
 
I heard back from Marje/Gracie, Sandy/BK and Wendy/Neko - the consensus was that you test often enough that if you WANT to go to 0.1u as a final step before doing an OTJ trial, you could. When FDMB first started and everyone used the SLGS with Lantus, people did go from 0.25u to OTJ. In more recent years with the Tight Regulation Protocol, people were encouraged to decrease the dose to 0.1u in order to support the pancreas as long as possible before taking the cat off of insulin.

It's a little more confusing because you're using AT and we don't have any "official" documents that give AT/human glucometer conversions. The Tight Regulation Protocol doc by Rand/Roomp uses AT 68 as the rough equivalent to a human glucometer 50, which is 30% more (50 + 30% = 65), so we've made guesses that the normal range on an AT *might* be 68-160ish. But it's just a guess. The decision on what constitutes normal in an AT is going to be up to you. All of these documents below are using human glucometer numbers.

From the SLGS sticky on remission:
Remission:
Remission is reached when kitty can go 14 days without insulin while maintaining normal blood glucose values in the 50 - 120 mg/dL (2.7 - 6.6 mmol/L) range. Most will remain in the 50 - 80mg/dL (2.7 - 4.4 mmol/L) range. However, some will experience infrequent BG numbers higher than the norm. Continue feeding low carb food. Test the cat's BGs once per month. If BG numbers begin to trend upwards, it's time to bring kitty in to see your vet for a check-up. Common reasons for kitty falling out of remission include dental issues, infection, inflammation, pancreatitis, etc. Just about any illness or disease can do it.​

From the Tight Regulation Protocol sticky on remission:
  • Since 2006 we've encouraged those practicing Tight Regulation to attempt reducing the dose from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely. During a two week OTJ trial, you want to see mostly green numbers (under 100) with only a few random blue numbers between 100 - 120 to help ensure a strong remission.
Remission:
  • From Tilly's Diabetes Homepage:
    Phase 5: Remission

    "14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.

    Approximately 25% cats that achieved remission using this protocol relapsed and required insulin again (frequent causes are hyperthyroidism or bouts of pancreatitis). Therefore, it is important to keep your diabetes kit up-to-date. Then you can react immediately by giving insulin and home testing. Importantly, the sooner you react to a relapse (i.e. preventing hyperglycemia and initiating other necessary veterinary treatment), the more likely a second remission will become.

    The longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission. Many long-term diabetics get stuck in Phase 3 or 4. Yet there is a benefit of using this method for such a cat as well: keeping the cat's BG levels as normal as possible is much healthier for it long term. Insulin requirements will often decrease to very low levels too."


What direction do you think you'd like to go with Princess?
Thanks to everyone for all this great information. Princess thanks you as well. I think I will try a reduction to .1 and continue to monitor her. I may be lucky if shes heading for remission so quickly. I'll keep you all posted. Marie. :cat:
 
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