Natural Choice soft loaf food

[mislissa777]

Hi all,
Quick question, I'm looking for a low carb low phosphorus food. I did a search through the forum & found a few lists containing numerous selections which is great! Trina does not have CRF yet but her BUN & CRE are on the high end of normal so I'd like to have her on a low phos. food too. One of the foods she's been eating is Natural Choice soft loaf turkey. I cannot find info. on it on any of the charts. So I emailed Nutro & I'm not sure I got the type of answer I was looking for. But I may have not asked the question correctly either. I wanted to know what the phosphorus level was meaning if it was under 250 or not. (I didn't specify that though.) Am I able to know that by this response I'm copying below. Thank you, Missy & Trina

Thank you for your recent email.

The phosphorus amount in the NATURAL CHOICE® Turkey Soft Loaf formula will be approximately 0.36g per 100g of product.

If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.

Sincerely,

The Nutro Company

 

[bsmith]

You should ask for the % of phosphorous based on dry matter analysis or, at the bare minimum, mg of phosphorus per 100 kcals. You could do the conversation with what you have if you know how many kcals there are per gram of food as I am assuming that the 250 number you are quoting is for mg of phosphorus / 100 kcals. Is that correct?

Tanya's CKD site has a fairly complete list: http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

Catinfo.org also has a good list: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

I'm not sure if either of these contain the specific food you're looking for, but it does give you some other choices that might work. In addition, some people use phosphorus binders in higher phosphorus foods. I'm not very familiar with the use of binders. Perhaps someone else can jump in with more information about them.

For my diabetic and CKD cat I feed just Friskies Special Diet "Turkey and Giblet" and "Beef and Chicken," since my cat can't have fish. You could also include Special Diet "Whitefish Dinner" and "With Salmon."

 

[mislissa777]

Thank you so much for the links & suggestions!!!! Hmmm.....I think the 250 number is for mg of phosphorus/100 k cals. I could try responding to the email with both of the things you suggested. And I will keep the Friskies Special Diet in mind too! Thank you!!! I'm always scared to change foods with her, she has allergies & we've never figured out to what. We've tried numerous food elimination diets. An antihistamine controls her from injuring her face from the itching but I'm always leery to make any changes. Thanks again!!! Missy & Trina

 

[bsmith]

Thank you so much for the links & suggestions!!!! Hmmm.....I think the 250 number is for mg of phosphorus/100 k cals. I could try responding to the email with both of the things you suggested. And I will keep the Friskies Special Diet in mind too! Thank you!!! I'm always scared to change foods with her, she has allergies & we've never figured out to what. We've tried numerous food elimination diets. An antihistamine controls her from injuring her face from the itching but I'm always leery to make any changes. Thanks again!!! Missy & Trina

Ahhh, one of those tricky allergy cats. That does make food changes more difficult. Edwin has had bizarre reactions to some foods. When I first started testing his BG, I realized that canned foods with fish in them made his BG spike quite a bit. Strange, but apparently that happens in some cats. He also had huge BG spikes and a hard painful stomach after trying to switch to a new dry food. I never did figure out what it was in that food that was the issue.

I know that you've done elimination diets, but have you ever had any actual allergy testing done? I'm just curious if they found anything.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

The phosphorus amount in the NATURAL CHOICE® Turkey Soft Loaf formula will be approximately 0.36g per 100g of product.

Hi,

'0.36g per 100g' is the same as saying there is 0.36% of phosphorous in the food (I think...).
But when comparing phosphorous content it's necessary to do a dry matter calculation, so you also need to know the moisture content of the food.

Then you grab a calculator and do this:
First calculate the dry matter of the food: 100% minus the moisture% will give you the total dry matter%.
Then you divide the phosphorous by the dry matter%.

So, for example, let's say that the moisture content of this food is 80%. That would mean the dry matter content is 20% (100% minus 80%)
0.36 divided by 20% = 1.8
So, there would be 1.8% phosphorous in the food (dry matter calculation).

Edited to add:
Actually I just looked the food up online and it says it has a max moisture content of 78%. So, that would mean 0.36 divided by 22% (100% minus 78% = 22% dry matter). And on that basis the phosphorous content of the food would be 1.63%.
.

 

[mislissa777]

Ahhh, one of those tricky allergy cats. That does make food changes more difficult. Edwin has had bizarre reactions to some foods. When I first started testing his BG, I realized that canned foods with fish in them made his BG spike quite a bit. Strange, but apparently that happens in some cats. He also had huge BG spikes and a hard painful stomach after trying to switch to a new dry food. I never did figure out what it was in that food that was the issue.

I know that you've done elimination diets, but have you ever had any actual allergy testing done? I'm just curious if they found anything.

Oh yes, tricky allergy cat indeed! I can't believe Edwin had strange reactions like that. Poor baby....a hard painful tummy does not sound fun.
I took Trina to a dermatologist but she didn't do actual testing. I know someone that did have testing done on her cat & it came back as dust mite & storage mite allergy. Some type of serum was made up. My Trina has been battling the facial itching for years & tried numerous types of antihistamines. They usually controlled it. Then I found a flea on her 2 different times (which I was in shock about but then learned even though she doesn't go out she can still get them.) So I thought she may have a flea bite allergy. I still don't know to this day. My vet says maybe a little bit of everything......food, dust, flea, pollens, etc. If she gains weight I slightly increase the antihistamine & that seems to keep the itching under control. Thank goodness! For awhile she had to wear one of those inflatable collars around her neck to stop her from making her sores worse.

 

[mislissa777]

Hi,

'0.36g per 100g' is the same as saying there is 0.36% of phosphorous in the food (I think...).
But when comparing phosphorous content it's necessary to do a dry matter calculation, so you also need to know the moisture content of the food.

Then you grab a calculator and do this:
First calculate the dry matter of the food: 100% minus the moisture% will give you the total dry matter%.
Then you divide the phosphorous by the dry matter%.

So, for example, let's say that the moisture content of this food is 80%. That would mean the dry matter content is 20% (100% minus 80%)
0.36 divided by 20% = 1.8
So, there would be 1.8% phosphorous in the food (dry matter calculation).

Edited to add:
Actually I just looked the food up online and it says it has a max moisture content of 78%. So, that would mean 0.36 divided by 22% (100% minus 78% = 22% dry matter). And on that basis the phosphorous content of the food would be 1.63%.
.

Hi Elizabeth! OMG I cannot believe you figured that out for me!!! THANK YOU!!!!! And thank you for explaining how to do that. I haven't fully researched CRF yet but I remember seeing on the charts 2 different columns about phosphorus. So I think this 1.63% number might be too high. I think this is the column that would need to be under 1%. I'll have to check though. Uugh......I was hoping I didn't have to do a food change. Thank you again!!!! Missy

 

[bsmith]

Hi,

'0.36g per 100g' is the same as saying there is 0.36% of phosphorous in the food (I think...).
But when comparing phosphorous content it's necessary to do a dry matter calculation, so you also need to know the moisture content of the food.

Then you grab a calculator and do this:
First calculate the dry matter of the food: 100% minus the moisture% will give you the total dry matter%.
Then you divide the phosphorous by the dry matter%.

So, for example, let's say that the moisture content of this food is 80%. That would mean the dry matter content is 20% (100% minus 80%)
0.36 divided by 20% = 1.8
So, there would be 1.8% phosphorous in the food (dry matter calculation).

Edited to add:
Actually I just looked the food up online and it says it has a max moisture content of 78%. So, that would mean 0.36 divided by 22% (100% minus 78% = 22% dry matter). And on that basis the phosphorous content of the food would be 1.63%.
.

I didn't even think to look up the moisture content online. Of course it should be there as it's generally included on the food label itself. Thanks for reminding me of what I should have remembered.

 

[bsmith]

Oh yes, tricky allergy cat indeed! I can't believe Edwin had strange reactions like that. Poor baby....a hard painful tummy does not sound fun.
I took Trina to a dermatologist but she didn't do actual testing. I know someone that did have testing done on her cat & it came back as dust mite & storage mite allergy. Some type of serum was made up. My Trina has been battling the facial itching for years & tried numerous types of antihistamines. They usually controlled it. Then I found a flea on her 2 different times (which I was in shock about but then learned even though she doesn't go out she can still get them.) So I thought she may have a flea bite allergy. I still don't know to this day. My vet says maybe a little bit of everything......food, dust, flea, pollens, etc. If she gains weight I slightly increase the antihistamine & that seems to keep the itching under control. Thank goodness! For awhile she had to wear one of those inflatable collars around her neck to stop her from making her sores worse.

That sounds like the allergies I have and Edwin probably has too. That's how I can tell if it's a cold or allergies; if the cat's stuffy too it's allergies, otherwise it's a cold. Benadryl is my friend.

 

[mislissa777]

Hi Elizabeth! OMG I cannot believe you figured that out for me!!! THANK YOU!!!!! And thank you for explaining how to do that. I haven't fully researched CRF yet but I remember seeing on the charts 2 different columns about phosphorus. So I think this 1.63% number might be too high. I think this is the column that would need to be under 1%. I'll have to check though. Uugh......I was hoping I didn't have to do a food change. Thank you again!!!! Missy

Hi, before I received your response I had already sent another email to Nutro asking for more specific info. I just wanted to share their response. I'm not so sure the numbers she is telling me are correct. I'm copying below. I'm just a little confused by all of this because I haven't had alot of time to research. These numbers are different which Nutro provided this time, I was more specific than the 1st email I sent them. Do you think she is saying there is 1.12% compared to the 1.63% using the carb calculator? I'm wondering if Nutro made a mistake with figuring out the numbers. Hmmmmm.

Dear Melissa,

Thank you for your quick response.

The information you are looking for is listed below:

Approx. 1.12% Dry Matter Phosphorous

Approx. 3.20g/1000kcal (0.32g/100kcal) of Phosphorous

111 kcals/100g (1.11 kcals/g) of Product

If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.

Sincerely,


The Nutro Company

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Do you think she is saying there is 1.12% compared to the 1.63% using the carb calculator? I'm wondering if Nutro made a mistake with figuring out the numbers. Hmmmmm.

It may be that the company have now given you the current 'as fed' values.

With US food cat food labelling the 'analysis' on the label shows guaranteed minimum and maximum values for fat, moisture etc. Only the manufacturer can say what the actual values are at any given time.
This looks like the phosphorous level is lower than we first thought. Excellent.
.

 

[mislissa777]

It may be that the company have now given you the current 'as fed' values.

With US food cat food labelling the 'analysis' on the label shows guaranteed minimum and maximum values for fat, moisture etc. Only the manufacturer can say what the actual values are at any given time.
This looks like the phosphorous level is lower than we first thought. Excellent.
.

Oh geez, this can get a little tricky figuring this stuff out!! So we should go with the actual value which is lower! Yay!!! I can't thank you both enough for your help through this. I wouldn't have known what to specifically ask Nutro & I wouldn't have known where to begin in figuring out the phos. values!! I"m also impressed with how quickly Nutro responded to both of my emails. Thanks again!!!

 

[mislissa777]

Oh geez, this can get a little tricky figuring this stuff out!! So we should go with the actual value which is lower! Yay!!! I can't thank you both enough for your help through this. I wouldn't have known what to specifically ask Nutro & I wouldn't have known where to begin in figuring out the phos. values!! I"m also impressed with how quickly Nutro responded to both of my emails. Thanks again!!!

Just for the heck of it I decided to ask Nutro the exact amount of carbs in this specific food & this is their response:
Actually, there are no carbs in the NATURAL CHOICE® Soft Loaf Turkey formula.