3/14 Sheba AMPS 138;+3 307. +8 156, PMPS 160

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Bron and Sheba (GA)

Bron and Sheba (GA)

Member Since 2015
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ps-165-3-253-4-167-5-104.134458/#post-1386866

Sheba had a lovely cycle last night after a PMPS of 165. Nadir at +7 was 70. :D I fed her some MC food at +4.5 and +5 as I didn't want her to drop too fast and cause a bounce. I also gave her some LC food at +7.5 as I was wanting to get some sleep. I feel chronically very tired from broken sleep and lack of sleep. (Just like most of the people here on this forum I am sure). I try to sleep between tests- sometimes I can sleep and sometimes I can't.

Wendy wrote---"Nice set of blues in the back half of the day. :cool: I bet she found a little green (below 5.6) sometime during the night.:)
How has Sheba been feeling/acting? We often ask about the 5 P's (peeing pooing, preening, purring, playing) as a cat is more than her numbers but only you can see that."

Sheba seems to be feeling full of life. Running up and down the stairs, jumping on the bed and generally moving around a lot more. Peeing is above what it should be, but I do give her extra fluids (orally) and she does have very early kidney issues. Poops are good. Preens after eating. Her little purr motor was going overtime last night when I stayed up testing. She just lay in her bed and let me test - didnt stop purring or move at all.:cat: She used to play with Maxie all the time, thundering through the house like 2 baby elephants but since he has gone, she doesn't play much. Nothing to do with the DM I am sure. Occasionally she will play with a toy.
Should I be doing anything else? Or just continue with the same?
Thanks, Bron
 
I checked Sheba's spreadsheet first thing this morning :D:D:D but yes welcome to the zombie club.

You could look at Astro's Oil for the kidney issues.
 
Lovely green surf last night. :D Personally, I like doses for Neko that get her to the 70's. It seems she bounces less and will flatten down a bit once she settles into the dose. I'd stick to this dose for a while and see if Sheba finds those greens again.

Great report on Sheba. :) When you say "early kidney issues", what do you mean? Do you have some lab blood work values that show that? We have some people here who are very good at interpreting what they mean.
 
Vyktors Mum said:
I checked Sheba's spreadsheet first thing this morning :D:D:D but yes welcome to the zombie club.

You could look at Astro's Oil for the kidney issues.
Click to expand...

Thanks Serryn for looking in on me. I was very happy to see the greens:D
I looked at Astro's Oil a few weeks ago, and I wrote to the man who made it to ask him about it. It looks really good. It has large amounts of fish oil, vitamin E and Co Q 10 in it. I already give Sheba fish oil and vitamin E, although not in such large amounts. I have been seriously thinking of buying it, but am not sure how Sheba would cope with large amounts of fish oil with her tendency to get pancreatitis at times. Do you use Astro's Oil?
Bron
 
Yes. At one stage I thought Vyktors kidneys were going so had researched and ordered some before we even got to the vet and got his test results. Turned out his kidneys were fine but since I had it on hand anyway and the theory behind it seems like it's good for any cat to have I started giving it to him at the normal cat dose of 1ml. Vyktor has had one confirmed pancreatitis attack (triaditis) and it hasn't caused any problems for him. I kept giving it to him as it seems to help with his arthritis. Seems like it would help with any inflammatory condition. He won't take it in his food but the thing they give you to administer it makes it quite easy to give.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Lovely green surf last night. :D Personally, I like doses for Neko that get her to the 70's. It seems she bounces less and will flatten down a bit once she settles into the dose. I'd stick to this dose for a while and see if Sheba finds those greens again.

Great report on Sheba. :) When you say "early kidney issues", what do you mean? Do you have some lab blood work values that show that? We have some people here who are very good at interpreting what they mean.
Click to expand...

Sheba has blood taken for kidney levels every 3 months because she has been on metacam. Last Dec she was showing some protein in her urine and her specific gravity was 1020. Her BUN was also up slightly. Creatinine and phosphorus normal.
The vet thought it was initially just the high protein diet - but put her on benazapril for the urine protein issue and to help her high BP. Her BP is now OK and the urine protein rarely shows protein. She had a full blood profile done 2 weeks ago.
Results:
Her creatinine and phosphorus are still normal.
Urea is 19 (5-15) and stable.
Calcium normal.
Total protein 87 (60-84)
Globulin 5.3 (31-52)
Cholesterol 5.9 (2.2-5.5)
CK. 1042 (64-400). Very high. Vet said this is from inflammation. Nothing to do with kidneys
Red and white blood cells normal, except for:
Monocytes 0.7. (0-0.6). vet said inflammation
Platelets low but clumped and adequate.
She also had a B-hydroxybutyrate Reflex Add-on 0.2 (0-0.5) which the vet said shows she is coping with diabetes well
T4 normal
All other tests normal

Since getting the higher urea reading etc I have changed Sheba's diet as a precaution. Still home prepared but:
egg shell powder instead of bone meal or bone to lower phosphorus
Egg white replaces some of the meat to lower phosphorus
Cut back on organ meat a bit
Tried to keep the overall phosphorus level down

I joined Tanya's CRD support group and the general opinion there is, 'they are not sure she does have CRD', but her high urea result and lower specific gravity result are from a high protein diet and the extra fluids I give her. They asked me to get another full blood test which I have done but I have not had a chance to post it yet. I only got the copy emailed to me a couple of days ago.
Apart from weeing more than normal, Sheba is showing no signs or symptoms of CRD. The extra fluids and higher BSLs at times, cloud the wee issue a bit.
Any comments or advise would be great thanks.

Happy to stick with the same dose and see where it takes us. Since I corrected the 6.5 units measurement, she seems to be getting better numbers.
Thanks Wendy. Very grateful for your help and advice.
Bron
 
My max used to play but only with Tiffany who has been gone for over 5 years. Are you giving her sub-q fluids? With normal creatinine I would not think it necessary. That would definitely cause more urination and a lower USG. How often do you get the BP checked? Was it very high?

Great to see that nadir of 70!:):D
 
tiffmaxee said:
My max used to play but only with Tiffany who has been gone for over 5 years. Are you giving her sub-q fluids? With normal creatinine I would not think it necessary. That would definitely cause more urination and a lower USG. How often do you get the BP checked? Was it very high?

Great to see that nadir of 70!:):D
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Hi Tiffmaxee,
I know Sheba misses Maxie still because when she isn't feeling great she always goes and lies in his favourite spot in the cupboard.
No, not giving subQ fluids. Sheba drinks fluids (broth I make) very well and maintains her hydration well ( except when she gets a flare of pancreatitis and then she needs a one off subQ fluids. She drinks about 300 to 400 mls a day of fluids. I put extra in her food and then some broth. When she is on metacam I have to make sure she is well hydrated - that is why I started to give the extra fluids. The vet said the extra fluids are good for her kidneys so I continue with it. She loves the broth and thinks it is a treat. That is what she has when I test her.

Sheba's BP was 160. I seem to remember it may have been a bit higher sometime last year. I think 180 but she was very stressed that day. I try and keep her calm before a test as she gets super stressed at the vet. I cover her with a towel and the vet takes the BP while she stays in the carrier. He just takes out her paw to do it and she just sits there covered with the towel, pretending she isn't there. It is hilarious to watch. Have only had the BP taken once since starting the benazapril and it was 135
Bron
 
That 160 is not actually too high considering the stress of a vet visit. Max was in the 200's and takes amlodipine. it's primary high BP. It's good that there is rarely protein in the urine. Why metacam?
 
hDCA1EC89


He'll never see me here!!
 
Sounds like you are doing everything right with the diet. :) BUN can be higher for kitties on a raw food diet. Some level of proteinuria is not uncommon with diabetic cats. I get the urine protein creatine (UPC) ratio done as it's a better indicator of protein in the urine, and benazapril is helping Neko there too.

Sheba's BP sounds pretty good for vetty stress. Neko has had anywhere from 210 (long wait, many barky dogs etc.) down to 128 at the dental vetty (quiet room, no other animals, Feliway plug-ins). The vets here think anything under 170 is fine, given the effects of the white coat syndrome.
 
Am cycle +10 is 117. Looks like I could have another low preshot. Wondering if anyone will be around in one and a half hours time. I am prepared with HC food, honey and plenty of strips. Just a bit nervous to shoot low.:nailbiting:
Bron
 
It's after midnight here, so I won't be up much longer. She still has two hours in the cycle. As long as she's about the same (surfing) or going up, you should be OK to shoot. Whenever you shoot your lowest yet to date, it's a good idea to get a +1 and a +2 test to give you an idea of what the cycle will look like. You might want to take the time to read the Sticky on Shooting Low Numbers. You shot as low as 115 in the beginning of the year. Think about what you'd be comfortable shooting this time. You can always wait 15-20 minutes and retest and see if she's coming up a bit more into your comfort zone. Often when you shoot low, they end up with nice flat cycles.

After that +2 for you, some of the people on the east coast of the US should be up and on the board. Between now and then, it's likely just going to be the Aussies (@Vyktors Mum ?) or Brits. You can always post over on the Health Forum and see if one of them is up.
 
Thank you Wendy. I will read the shooting low numbers sticky. I read it every time I need reassurances! Actually that one at the beginning of the year I have entered incorrectly. I just had a look back at it and I stalled for an hour when it was 6.2 and shot when it was 9.2. I need to correct that.
I am feeling a bit more comfortable about shooting low. I just hope I have the courage. I was up til 4 am last night with her. Just couldn't get to sleep between testing and today I fell asleep for 2 and a half hours when my grandson slept, so I should be ok for tonight. Thank you so much for answering my thread. I hope you have a good sleep. I really appreciate the support.Bron
 
Then your lowest shot to date is 155. Given that meters can have 20% difference, that could have been a number in the 120's, so you should be good to shoot that. Just hoping that gives you a little courage. Good luck tonight.:bighug:
 
Hi Bron. You aren't alone in your anxiety as I feel very anxious about dosing low too. I too have read the low numbers sticky many times for reassurance but I still get anxious so I am no expert on dosing low and can't advise you but hopefully more experienced people will be on the board soon.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Then your lowest shot to date is 155. Given that meters can have 20% difference, that could have been a number in the 120's, so you should be good to shoot that. Just hoping that gives you a little courage. Good luck tonight.:bighug:
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That is a good point Wendy and I appreciate that too. Thank you.
 
I can't give advice as to what glucose level you could dose at but I can be here for you as I know how anxiety provoking it can be. I have dealt with lower glucose levels more often lately so I can help a bit with that if needed. It is early evening here so I will be online for some hours yet if you need someone to talk to.
 
Thanks Voula. I still have half hour to go. Was hoping to reduce the time as we are still an hour off schedule because of stalling the other day, but hey I love low numbers. They are better than high numbers any day! Except when hypo of course. Thanks for support
Bron
 
Well hello there :) I think we're down to about fifteen minutes now, do you have any fingernails left :woot:

I'm just going to take a peek at her SS brb
 
I was about to post and suggest 100 for a cut off - she's not dropping she's surfing from where she was at +10 so this is a great opportunity to shoot low to stay low...
 
Tee hee hee, don't forget you're not shooting the number you see but the one that will appear a couple of hours from now

ETA - 3/10 provides a good example of what stalling the surf did for Sheba, once they start to rise lantus has a much harder time trying to bring them back down than it does keeping them down.
 
OK I tested and she was 6.0(108)..............so I gave her the insulin!:) Gulp:confused:
Sheba was just pleased to be fed!
Thanks for being there Serryn. Sometimes we just need a bit of a push;)
A nervous wait now to see if she decides to stay low or catch a rocket. I am using the iPad to write this but I do the SS on my computer which is slow and unresponsive and drives me nuts so if I have not updated the SS it is because of the computer. I will post her numbers here until we see where they are going. Thanks
Bron
 
Aha cross post. Well done Bron. I will be t/f/s Purrdy at your +1 but I will be back on ASAP afterwards to see what's happening :cool::):cool:

ETA - Would be great if you could update your numbers in the subject line as we go along so I (and others) can see immediately what's going on
 
+2 210. I think that is probably a food spike as she hasn't risen much from +1. She usually spikes about that much, especially if it is a lower number.
 
She's sliding down nicely :) but since she doesn't seem to nadir until around +7 I think a +6 would be prudent. Get a nap in if you can...
 
Well done Bron and I hope you got some sleep. I'll never forget the first time I was up all but a couple of hours with Max at night and nobody was around. I made a copy of the shooting low and kept reading it.
 
Thanks tiffmaxee.
Sheba has just jumped on the bed and woken me (it's 1am), something she never does during the night. Saves that for the morning. So I got up to test her and I am pleased I did as she has dropped from 167 to 104 in an hour.
So +5 104
I have just given her a teas of MC to slow her down. Guess I will stay up for a bit to see what she has planned!
 
Good she woke you up. She is responding well to the insulin :) they usually get hungry when they drop. My guy sometimes just lays by his empty dish rather than talking except in the morning when he wants food 30-60 minutes before amps and can't have it. I hope Sheba surfs the 70-95 range so you can get some more sleep.
 
Thanks tiffmaxee. I hope she surfs too. But she loves to dive, that is why I give her some MC to slow her down. :)
She is always very vocal about her needs?
Am going to try and grab some more sleep if I can. I find it hard when I know she is dropping
 
104 is still a nice safe number!! We don't usually start with the MC or HC until they drop below 50 or if they're dropping too fast early in the cycle to try to slow them down, but we understand you're not used to seeing good numbers and they can be nerve-wracking when you're first starting to see them!

Soon, you'll be addicted to them though!

That's an excellent curve you have going tonight but if her usual nadir isn't until around +7, you'll want to get another test in before turning in for the night...but nap when you can! Cell phone alarms are great tools!

Not sure what's going on with Google...telling me "resource unavailable" when I try to look at your spreadsheet
 
Hi Chris.
I have been having trouble with the SS tonight. It won't put in the numbers. I have just turned it off and will reboot to see it that helps.

Re the MC food. I have had a lot of trouble with Sheba bouncing from dropping fast. But since joining FDMB, I have been trying to stop the fast drops by feeding with MC food.( lC food does nothing to help). The strategy has helped a lot and the bouncing has reduced a lot and I have been getting much better preshots and generally better numbers.
I wasn't worried by the 104, just that she had dropped from 167 to 104 in one hour and knowing this couple of hours is when she does her biggest drops of the cycle, I was concerned she might trigger a bounce and just wanted to slow her down a bit.
Did I do the wrong thing? So much to learn.
I don't usually use HC unless she drops below 50
Yes my iPhone is my best friend. Has a great alarm and can be set multiple times!
Thanks for your advice and help.
Bron
 
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