Princess' numbers dropped very low..

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Princess mother

Princess mother

Member Since 2015
Help! Princess' BG this morning fell to 79. Last couple of days her numbers were in the high 200s. I gave her a new food yesterday...blue wilderness turkey with her usual FF chopped Grill. what happened? DO i give her any insulin? She usually receives 2 units. This ever happen to anyone?
 
Hi Marie,

Princess mother said:
How could this happen?
Click to expand...

It may be that Princess's blood glucose drifted down gradually overnight.
Or it may be that she actually dropped lower than this and is now rising from a lower number (in which case a dose reduction could be indicated).
It may be that the food change lowered her blood glucose.
But we actually don't know what happened.

It may be that her pancreas is doing some work here and is holding those numbers down....

Is this 12 hours since her last shot?
What was her pre-shot number?
Are you able to get another test in maybe 20 mins to half an hour's time?

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Marie,



It may be that Princess's blood glucose drifted down gradually overnight.
Or it may be that she actually dropped lower than this and is now rising from a lower number (in which case a dose reduction could be indicated).
It may be that the food change lowered her blood glucose.
But we actually don't know what happened.

It may be that her pancreas is doing some work here and is holding those numbers down....

Is this 12 hours since her last shot?
What was her pre-shot number?
Are you able to get another test in maybe 20 mins to half an hour's time?

Eliz
Click to expand...
Hi Eliz,

Last night's 7 pm pre shot number was 277 which i thought was trending in the down direction from 292 in the am. I just did another test after she ate and it was 114.

She looks fine and is acting normal but this is scary. It came out of nowhere!!!

Marie
 
Okey dokey,
So she's come up from 79 to 114 (not still dropping). And was that just her normal food that she ate?

I know it's scary when this happens, Marie; but it is quite possibly an indicator of good things happening. Maybe Princess's body is starting to heal a bit.

Am I right in thinking that Princess is on Lantus?

And it would be super-duper if you could add Princess's recent blood testing data onto a spreadsheet (Marje @Marje and Gracie is a bit of a whizz at that, and she may assist if you need some help.) Having data on a spreadsheet makes it much easier to see the patterns and to work out what might be going on.

What food were you feeding before yesterday? And do you happen to know if that has a higher carb content than the blue wilderness turkey? (I'm in the UK and we have different foods here).
.
 
Following on from Eliz's post, it would really help if you could let us know the carb content of the different foods. Sometimes a particular carb % can help the pancreas to work better.

Great job with the testing to catch the low number, Marie. :)
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Okey dokey,
So she's come up from 79 to 114 (not still dropping). And was that just her normal food that she ate?

I know it's scary when this happens, Marie; but it is quite possibly an indicator of good things happening. Maybe Princess's body is starting to heal a bit.

Am I right in thinking that Princess is on Lantus?

And it would be super-duper if you could add Princess's recent blood testing data onto a spreadsheet (Marje @Marje and Gracie is a bit of a whizz at that, and she may assist if you need some help.) Having data on a spreadsheet makes it much easier to see the patterns and to work out what might be going on.

What food were you feeding before yesterday? And do you happen to know if that has a higher carb content than the blue wilderness turkey? (I'm in the UK and we have different foods here).
.
Click to expand...
She usually eat Fancy Feast which has low carbs. I wanted to try an even better ingredient food so I gave her the Blue Wilderness mixed with the FF. She is on Lantus. I think the fact that I have almost totally weaned her off dry food may be helping her. I have worked on a spreadsheet. I will try to upload it.
 
Critter Mom said:
Following on from Eliz's post, it would really help if you could let us know the carb content of the different foods. Sometimes a particular carb % can help the pancreas to work better.

Great job with the testing to catch the low number, Marie. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks. I have gotten much more comfortable with the testing and try to do it before each meal if she allows. I am lucky that she is such a good girl to allow me to do the testing.
 
Thanks, Marie. If you're reducing the dry, that may be the most significant factor in play but it would be helpful to see how Princess responds to different carb levels.
 
Critter Mom said:
Thanks, Marie. If you're reducing the dry, that may be the most significant factor in play but it would be helpful to see how Princess responds to different carb levels.
Click to expand...
The Fancy Feast that i have fed her for years with her dry food is low in carbs...between 1 and 5% of calories according to the chart by Lisa Pierson dvm. She doesnt list the actual Blue Wilderness percentages but she says they are low carbs.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Okey dokey,
So she's come up from 79 to 114 (not still dropping). And was that just her normal food that she ate?

I know it's scary when this happens, Marie; but it is quite possibly an indicator of good things happening. Maybe Princess's body is starting to heal a bit.

Am I right in thinking that Princess is on Lantus?

And it would be super-duper if you could add Princess's recent blood testing data onto a spreadsheet (Marje @Marje and Gracie is a bit of a whizz at that, and she may assist if you need some help.) Having data on a spreadsheet makes it much easier to see the patterns and to work out what might be going on.

What food were you feeding before yesterday? And do you happen to know if that has a higher carb content than the blue wilderness turkey? (I'm in the UK and we have different foods here).
.
Click to expand...
Hi Eliz,

I've uploaded an Excel file on Princess' numbers.
 
Princess mother said:
Hi Eliz,

I've uploaded an Excel file on Princess' numbers.
Click to expand...

Hi Marie,

Do I understand correctly that Princess has been getting 2 units Lantus am and pm, and that you've been getting preshot tests (before giving insulin) but not any other tests? (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

If that is the case then we don't have data to show how low Princess is typically dropping during the cycle.
It would be great if you could get some mid-cycle tests so we can see what is happening there. Are you up for doing a few more tests..?
.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hi Marie,

Do I understand correctly that Princess has been getting 2 units Lantus am and pm, and that you've been getting preshot tests (before giving insulin) but not any other tests? (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

If that is the case then we don't have data to show how low Princess is typically dropping during the cycle.
It would be great if you could get some mid-cycle tests so we can see what is happening there. Are you up for doing a few more tests..?
.
Click to expand...
Yes only twice a day before each meal. Then the lantus 15 minutes after she eats. I am up to more testing, not sure if she is! When would be the best time to test? Midway between the feedings?
 
How many hours after the last insulin dose, Marie? (I don't have Excel on my PC so can't view your spreadsheet.)
 
How is it going? I am a little concerned that she at 141 and from what you said that is only 2 hours after her 2 units lantus. If this the case then she could drop a lot more and you need to test her frequently and have your hypo kit ready to go.

I've looked at your spreasheet and I can't really work it out. As Elizabeth already said you need to adjust lantus based on the lowest point in the cycle. I really feel two units twice a day is too high and this should be reduced back down. Hopefully others will comment.
 
I've just realised you didn't give the insulin today after the 79 reading. I still think that the 2 units is too high especially as you haven't got any mid cycle readings to confirm that dose is safe.
 
phlika29 said:
I've just realised you didn't give the insulin today after the 79 reading. I still think that the 2 units is too high especially as you haven't got any mid cycle readings to confirm that dose is safe.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your concern. I only gave her 1 unit of lantus this morning. I will be checking her level in about 2 hours. She appears ok today. The vet says only 1 unit tonite if she is under 300.
 
Have you taken any more readings as she may have gone a lot lower especially as the depot from the high dose would still be in her system.

I think I would stick with the 1 unit maximum twice a day until you can get some mid cycle readings. Then if the lowest point is still a little high then increase slowly by 0.25 unit at a time, wait for the new dose to settle and then if necessary increase again.

I would also feed small, mini meals during the cycle to try to limit too steep a drop. You know what do do if she goes below 50?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Now you are taking readings I would advise that you post on the lantus board and ask for their help, you will find no body with more experience of using lantus.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/
 
It's possible that might be a bounce after the earlier low number. I hope someone who can see your spreadsheet data will be along soon to give you some feedback, Marie.
 
You'll need the US version of the spreadsheet. If you get stuck, just pop up a post and we can help you sort it out. :)
 
phlika29 said:
Have you taken any more readings as she may have gone a lot lower especially as the depot from the high dose would still be in her system.

I think I would stick with the 1 unit maximum twice a day until you can get some mid cycle readings. Then if the lowest point is still a little high then increase slowly by 0.25 unit at a time, wait for the new dose
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17N2IgnbAm_sk2bKXaFKMNxmqYkQkjRI6H-6etXWOGY0/pubhtml
to settle and then if necessary increase again.

I would also feed small, mini meals during the cycle to try to limit too steep a drop. You know what do do if she goes below 50?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Now you are taking readings I would advise that you post on the lantus board and ask for their help, you will find no body with more experience of using lantus.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/
Click to expand...
please see my spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17N2IgnbAm_sk2bKXaFKMNxmqYkQkjRI6H-6etXWOGY0/pubhtml
 
Link works like a charm. Great job, Marie! That'll make it much easier for experienced members to give you better feedback.

I wonder whether the high PMPS tonight might be a bounce after the low value this morning. Hopefully members with more experience will give you better feedback. I've not got enough experience to comment on dosing.

@phlika29 - Sarah, can you have a look at Princess' spreadsheet and maybe ask someone from the Lantus board to give some feedback, please?
 
Critter Mom said:
Link works like a charm. Great job, Marie! That'll make it much easier for experienced members to give you better feedback.

I wonder whether the high PMPS tonight might be a bounce after the low value this morning. Hopefully members with more experience will give you better feedback. I've not got enough experience to comment on dosing.

@phlika29 - Sarah, can you have a look at Princess' spreadsheet and maybe ask someone from the Lantus board to give some feedback, please?
Click to expand...

Thank you. This is nerve wracking!!!
 
I usually leave the spreadsheet open on a tab in my browser. If I accidentally close the tab, I find a post I've made on the forum and then click on the link in my own signature. I'm sure there are far more elegant ways of accessing it, but that method works. :oops: Then all you have to do is sign in (top right hand corner of spreadsheet screen).
 
Hi Marie!

I agree that tonight's numbers are due to a bounce from the low number this morning. What happens is that our cats body gets used to living at those higher numbers, so when the insulin brings them down into "normal" numbers (or even just numbers lower than they're used to) the liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring them back up to where it's used to being.

What I would suggest is holding that 1.5 unit dose for at least 6 cycles and let's see how it goes. If Princess should drop below 50, she'd earn a reduction of .25 unit

Please try to get some tests in at night too...at least a "before bed" test. Most cats go lower at night, and by getting a last test before you go to bed, you might catch her dropping and know you need to set an alarm to get more tests in.

Think of the spreadsheet as a puzzle...if you only have edge pieces filled in, it makes it really hard to tell what the picture is, but if you sprinkle pieces throughout, the picture becomes clearer.

We usually tell new members that if they get a Pre-Shot under 150, they should "Stall", DON'T feed, and post for help so someone with experience can advise you. Make sure your subject line says something like "stalling, need help!" so the people that scan the forums know you need help. If nobody has had a chance to get back to you, retest in about 20 minutes and if the number is starting to rise, it's probably fine to shoot, but you should make sure you get a +1 and +2 to make sure.

If you'll start posting in the Lantus/Levemir insulin support group, you'll get the benefit of the most experienced eyes to help you learn how to help Princess, so I hope to see you there!
 
Chris & China said:
Hi Marie!

I agree that tonight's numbers are due to a bounce from the low number this morning. What happens is that our cats body gets used to living at those higher numbers, so when the insulin brings them down into "normal" numbers (or even just numbers lower than they're used to) the liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring them back up to where it's used to being.

What I would suggest is holding that 1.5 unit dose for at least 6 cycles and let's see how it goes. If Princess should drop below 50, she'd earn a reduction of .25 unit

Please try to get some tests in at night too...at least a "before bed" test. Most cats go lower at night, and by getting a last test before you go to bed, you might catch her dropping and know you need to set an alarm to get more tests in.

Think of the spreadsheet as a puzzle...if you only have edge pieces filled in, it makes it really hard to tell what the picture is, but if you sprinkle pieces throughout, the picture becomes clearer.

We usually tell new members that if they get a Pre-Shot under 150, they should "Stall", DON'T feed, and post for help so someone with experience can advise you. Make sure your subject line says something like "stalling, need help!" so the people that scan the forums know you need help. If nobody has had a chance to get back to you, retest in about 20 minutes and if the number is starting to rise, it's probably fine to shoot, but you should make sure you get a +1 and +2 to make sure.

If you'll start posting in the Lantus/Levemir insulin support group, you'll get the benefit of the most experienced eyes to help you learn how to help Princess, so I hope to see you there!
Click to expand...
Thank you for all your help. Her number before bed last night +3 was 366 and this morning before the shot was 317.
 
It might well still be the bounce from yesterday's very low (they can take a few days to clear) and this will hopefully settle on the 1.5.

I really would recommend that you post over on the lantus board that Chris and I linked yesterday now you have got your spreadsheet up and running. They are a great bunch and have do much experience of using lantus day in and day out.
 
phlika29 said:
It might well still be the bounce from yesterday's very low (they can take a few days to clear) and this will hopefully settle on the 1.5.

I really would recommend that you post over on the lantus board that Chris and I linked yesterday now you have got your spreadsheet up and running. They are a great bunch and have do much experience of using lantus day in and day out.
Click to expand...
I did. Thanks.
 
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