I'm new here! Glad I found out I am NOT ALONE! Here is my story

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Tiggers_Dad

Tiggers_Dad

Member Since 2015
Tigger got diagnosed 5/21/2013, my birthday is 5/24. So I'll never forget the date

He was a very sick diabetic when I brought him into the vet, my warning sign was when he started peeing in the corner of the room, was very confused and extremely weak. After 5 days and 1,800USD, it was 2units prozinc 2 times daily. Prozinc caused very bad neuropathy in Tigger's back legs, so bad I nick named him peg leg because his legs were so stiff. I searched and opted for Novalin N, the neuropathy went away. And Tigger lived happily ever after untill just a few weeks ago he started getting sick.
Long story short, he went down hill quick and has been in the hospital for 7days now.
Please pray for him

I'm sorry I'm cutting this short, I look forward to being a member on this forum and receiving guidance from my experienced brothers and sisters
I'm on 1-2hours of sleep every night I can't sleep until I collapse from exhaustion, not ate much either I can't keep it down. I am so close with my cat, when he is sick I am too.
I will report back when I am not falling asleep

Anyways thank you for having this forum, I am looking foward to zeroing in on Tigger's diabetes I just bought an alpha trak 2

for more information on Tigger
 
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Welcome to FDMB.

Some other condition may have happened which resulted in the glucose becoming uncontrolled and causing diabetic ketoacidosis, hepatic lipidosis, or some combination of those complications. Often, it is infection.

Novalin (or Humalin) NPH works, generally for only 6-8 hours in the cat, leaving 4-6 hours unregulated if you give insulin every 12 hours. ProZinc probably did not cause the neuropathy, rather, inadequate dose resulted in the high glucose causing the neuropathy. Other long acting insulins for cats include Levemir, Lantus, and BCP PZI. If you go with either Levemir or Lantus, get the Rx for the pens, which we treat as small insulin vials. That may let you buy them 1 at a time (often sold as a 5 pack); also, they can be much less expensive if ordered from Canada, time permitting.

Vetsulin/Caninsulin (same product) last about 8-10 hours in the cat, we do not recommend those.

If you haven't opened it already, return the AlphaTrak; the cost for the testing strips will kill your budget. A low cost human glucometer such as the Target Up and Up or the WalMart ReliOn Confirm is much more economical and may be used with the feline glucose reference numbers in my signature link Glucometer Notes.
 
Hi and welcome. You are the same as me. If my cat is ill then so am I. You need to look after yourself and eat properly so you can look after Tigger.

Do you know what the vets think might be the underlying problem. Do they think he has pancreatitis? Or perhaps some sort of liver problem or maybe a combination of things? It sounds like he is having trouble eating and holding food down. Are they giving him an anti nausea medication such as ondansetron Or cerenia?

Do you know how much food they are getting into him each day? It is important that a cat eats in order to avoid complications such as hepatic lipidosis when if this means assist feeding. Over the years on forums I have come across situations where even when cats are hospitalised the vet practice don't get enough calories into them.

I see that he is getting fluids so this is good.

With regards the neuropathy my cats actually got worst after he started on insulin too. I believe it isn't unheard of and someone advised to check potassium levels and I feed my cats were low. Once we started a daily supplement he regained his strength and was fine. I wonder if tigger had the same issue.

I would agree with BJM. The insulin tigger is currently on may not last enough time. In the longer term a longer lasting insulin may be the way to go.

Best wishes to you and tigger.
 
Tigger did test positive for pancreatitis, and did have ketones in his urine
But now! No more ketones and I believe the pancreatitis is going away because last night Tigger ate for the first time in a week and a half and had a drink of water! It was such a glorious moment! I'll comment more in detail later I am visiting Tigger very soon here! :]

ps. WOW! You people have the know how! I'm excited to follow the guidance given here, I'm excited to get my kitty back soon! :]
 
BJM said:

If you haven't opened it already, return the AlphaTrak; the cost for the testing strips will kill your budget. A low cost human glucometer such as the Target Up and Up or the WalMart ReliOn Confirm is much more economical and may be used with the feline glucose reference numbers in my signature link Glucometer Notes.
Click to expand...


I bought it from Ebay, I'm sure I can still return it. I use the WalMart ReliOn its just that its not as accurate as the Alpha Trak.
The vet uses it. I planned on using the ReliOn along with the Alpha Trak to zero in on his curve

What insulin do you recommend? Tigger is still in the hospital and they are having a hard time regulating his glucose levels.

Current bill is 1,670$ lol

The things we do for our pets


When Tigger was in the hospital, they put him on prozinc and his peg legs came back. They put him on what I use(humalin) and then the peg legs went away.
 
phlika29 said:
Do you know what the vets think might be the underlying problem. Do they think he has pancreatitis? Or perhaps some sort of liver problem or maybe a combination of things? It sounds like he is having trouble eating and holding food down. Are they giving him an anti nausea medication such as ondansetron Or cerenia?

Do you know how much food they are getting into him each day? It is important that a cat eats in order to avoid complications such as hepatic lipidosis when if this means assist feeding. Over the years on forums I have come across situations where even when cats are hospitalised the vet practice don't get enough calories into them.

I see that he is getting fluids so this is good.

With regards the neuropathy my cats actually got worst after he started on insulin too. I believe it isn't unheard of and someone advised to check potassium levels and I feed my cats were low. Once we started a daily supplement he regained his strength and was fine. I wonder if tigger had the same issue.

I would agree with BJM. The insulin tigger is currently on may not last enough time. In the longer term a longer lasting insulin may be the way to go.

Best wishes to you and tigger.
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positive for pancreatitis. His blood work showed elevated liver things, but they weren't crazy high. He was puking 24/7 but they have had him on apatite stimulants, anti- nausea, antibiotics, and now a ear medication because he had bacteria in there(he kept shaking his head(starting at the hospital)). They give him humalin every 12 hours and a short acting humalin when his levels are high. The hospital is keeping his levels anywhere from 200-600, they are having a hard time. Do you recommend a specific insulin?

The vet was not syringe feeding him enough, i knew that because Tigger was so weak and weighed 7pounds (normally he weighs 10-11). Everyday I visit him twice, 3pm and 3am and I normally syringe feed him a liquid puree. First it was 15ml, then 25ml, then 30ml and now hes eating on his own(just not a lot of food yet). When he was first diagnosed with diabetes he did have low potassium levels and they gave me a gel that smelled like soy sauce to give him a little everyday. I need to ask what his blood work shown, and see if he needs it again. Do you give your cats potassium 24/7 365?


Thank you so much BJM and phlika29 for taking time out of your day to help me
 
If the dose is wrong or its the wrong insulin for the cat, you won't get optimal results. Many folks here use Levemir and Lantus. The upfront costs can be high; some folks order from Canada when there is time. If you use those, get the Rx for the insulin pens; sometimes, you can buy them 1 at a time. We take the pen needle cap off and use a syringe to get the insulin out.
 
What kind of food do you guys recommend my cat goes on? I normally feed him any blue diamond
I need something I can get from petsmart

I went with blue diamond because there are actual minerals and vitamins in it compared to the prescription crap they wanted him on
 
Tiggers_Dad said:
positive for pancreatitis. His blood work showed elevated liver things, but they weren't crazy high. He was puking 24/7 but they have had him on apatite stimulants, anti- nausea, antibiotics, and now a ear medication because he had bacteria in there(he kept shaking his head(starting at the hospital)). They give him humalin every 12 hours and a short acting humalin when his levels are high. The hospital is keeping his levels anywhere from 200-600, they are having a hard time. Do you recommend a specific insulin?
Click to expand...


Just what test did they do for pancreatitis? The best blood test is the Spec fPL test
https://ca.idexx.com/smallanimal/reference-laboratories/testmenu/innovative-tests/spec-fpl.html
However it is not a 100% accurate test. The best test is an ultrasound of the abdomen. Lever enzymes are not a good indicator.
The use of the two insulins is the proper procedure for in-hospital use.
 
Oh my god! At how much I'm learning from this website and from cat info
See the
Urinary Tract Health and Diabetes webpages at catinfo.org for
reasons why dry food is not recommended for cats. The main
reasons are: 1) Water-depleted diets do not promote urinary tract
health and they signifcantly increase your cat's risk for very painful
and potentially fatal urethral obstructions, as well as cystitis. 2)
Diets high in carbohydrates negatively impact the blood sugar
level of many cats and are not species-appropriate diets. The
insulin needs of diabetic cats nearly always decrease signifcantly
when their dietary carbohydrate load is decreased. A serious
hypoglycemic state can occur when this is not recognized. 3) Cats
are obligate carnivores and are designed to get their protein from
animal sources, not plants (grains and vegetables).
Click to expand...

I am going to ween him off of dry food, hes addicted tho! But with the help of http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf I have faith I can
Jeeez I feel so bad for giving him dry food but I didn't know any better!
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Just what test did they do for pancreatitis? The best blood test is the Spec fPL test
https://ca.idexx.com/smallanimal/reference-laboratories/testmenu/innovative-tests/spec-fpl.html
However it is not a 100% accurate test. The best test is an ultrasound of the abdomen. Lever enzymes are not a good indicator.
The use of the two insulins is the proper procedure for in-hospital use.
Click to expand...
It was a blood test that confirmed it, they told me an ultrasound will only show if its inflamed and that its usually hard to see the pancreas

The vet said if the test came back negative that they'll want to perform an ultra sound to see if there is a tumor or something, I didn't get the ultra sound down because of cost conerns. Tigger is eating again tho, a little bit at a time :]
 
Tiggers_Dad said:
Oh my god! At how much I'm learning from this website and from cat info


I am going to ween him off of dry food, hes addicted tho! But with the help of http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf I have faith I can
Jeeez I feel so bad for giving him dry food but I didn't know any better!
Click to expand...

Please don't feel guilty about feeding Tigger dried food, lots of people did the same before they discovered this board & both my previous cats ate partially dried food , lived til they were 19 & never had diabetes or any pancreatic problems.
 
LynRich said:
Please don't feel guilty about feeding Tigger dried food, lots of people did the same before they discovered this board & both my previous cats ate partially dried food , lived til they were 19 & never had diabetes or any pancreatic problems.
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Yeah, just like some people smoke cigs and live to be 100 and others die at 2 of cancer
we are all dealt different cards that we need to learn to play


I forgot to mention, Tigger was DKA
He isn't anymore tho I believe
 
If he has no ketones, then he's probably out of the DKA woods. Did they insert a feeding tube or were you guys literally feeding him off a syringe? Do you know when you might be able to bring him home?

Tiggers_Dad said:
When he was first diagnosed with diabetes he did have low potassium levels and they gave me a gel that smelled like soy sauce to give him a little everyday. I need to ask what his blood work shown, and see if he needs it again. Do you give your cats potassium 24/7 365?
Click to expand...
Low potassium is usually a side effect of DKA and/or hepatic lipidosis. His potassium levels should return to normal the better he gets.
 
So just to confirm he is still at the vets? Still being assist feed?

I have limited experience with insulin as my cat got off the juice fairly quickly but a lot of people here including me have good experience of using lantus. It builds up in the system and can therefore give longer lasting control of blood glucose. Over time this can get the cats blood glucose into the range where it can possible heal or at least do no further damage.

Re the wet food it can really help being the numbers down by 100 or so points. This is great but you need to make sure you are testing before you do it and do the transition very slowly. With pancreatitis is is REALLY important to transition slowly and find a food that suits you cat. For me that meant going for a high protein (single source), lower fat, low carb wet food as remi seems to be sensitive to fat as he has pancreatitis and has had a really bad cholangihepatitis flair. When he was bad he vomited each and every day. We treated him with the usual supportive meds such as sub q, anti nausea med and pain relief along with an antibiotic for the liver problem and a steroid (he want diabetic then).

the potassium supplement sounds like he had kaminox, this is what my cat has and yes I understand that once they are on it they would more than likely need it ongoing. I will retest in a few months but until then just carry on mixing it with his food.

The other thing that might help both the neuropathy and any IBD is vit b -both the injection your vet can give and the tablets of active b12 (MethylCobalamin )

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...and-methyl-b12-questions.130942/#post-1348246
 
KPassa said:
If he has no ketones, then he's probably out of the DKA woods. Did they insert a feeding tube or were you guys literally feeding him off a syringe? Do you know when you might be able to bring him home?


Low potassium is usually a side effect of DKA and/or hepatic lipidosis. His potassium levels should return to normal the better he gets.
Click to expand...
They want to send him home tomorrow night, I am excited but also nervous
when I brought him in there, he was comatose
glucose at 26, was dead in my arms.
Literally the scariest night of my life
I caught his sugar dropping at 90 to 70 to 50 to 45 to 40 34 30 26 all within 10 minutes and karol syrup was not helping fast enough!

We were syringe feeding him orally, he is eating on his own now great! :] he gets mad if you pull his food away lol so he wants it
 
phlika29 said:
So just to confirm he is still at the vets? Still being assist feed?

I have limited experience with insulin as my cat got off the juice fairly quickly but a lot of people here including me have good experience of using lantus. It builds up in the system and can therefore give longer lasting control of blood glucose. Over time this can get the cats blood glucose into the range where it can possible heal or at least do no further damage.

Re the wet food it can really help being the numbers down by 100 or so points. This is great but you need to make sure you are testing before you do it and do the transition very slowly. With pancreatitis is is REALLY important to transition slowly and find a food that suits you cat. For me that meant going for a high protein (single source), lower fat, low carb wet food as remi seems to be sensitive to fat as he has pancreatitis and has had a really bad cholangihepatitis flair. When he was bad he vomited each and every day. We treated him with the usual supportive meds such as sub q, anti nausea med and pain relief along with an antibiotic for the liver problem and a steroid (he want diabetic then).

the potassium supplement sounds like he had kaminox, this is what my cat has and yes I understand that once they are on it they would more than likely need it ongoing. I will retest in a few months but until then just carry on mixing it with his food.

The other thing that might help both the neuropathy and any IBD is vit b -both the injection your vet can give and the tablets of active b12 (MethylCobalamin )

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...and-methyl-b12-questions.130942/#post-1348246
Click to expand...
The doctor told me a few times, you can't give a pancreatitis cat steroids
um, I asked about his potassium levels and they said lets take one step at a time and that the pancreatitis is the first concern
The vit b injection, is that b12 to? or a multi b injection?

Where do you guys get lantus? I am 40 miles from the usa/Canadian boarder so I can drive there easily if necessary
 
Canada will be less expensive; get it in the pens or cartridges then use an insulin syringe to withdraw the insulin.
 
Tiggers_Dad said:
They want to send him home tomorrow night, I am excited but also nervous
when I brought him in there, he was comatose
glucose at 26, was dead in my arms.
Literally the scariest night of my life
I caught his sugar dropping at 90 to 70 to 50 to 45 to 40 34 30 26 all within 10 minutes and karol syrup was not helping fast enough!
Click to expand...
Ah, so he had a hypo, not a hyper. DKA is when ketones develop from not enough insulin, not enough food, and usually some sort of infection. Hypoglycemia is when their BGs drop too low. I apologize; I thought he had been hospitalized with DKA.
 
Cyano-b12 is pink and is usually in shot form. It's great for reducing pancreatic inflammation in cats prone to pancreatitis. I believe it is given either weekly or bi-weekly as maintenance.

Methyl-b12 is usually a powder or dissolvable pill that you mix into their food daily and it's great for diabetic neuropathy (cats walking on their hocks, constipation related to diabetes, etc...).

Tiggers_Dad said:
Where do you guys get lantus? I am 40 miles from the usa/Canadian boarder so I can drive there easily if necessary
Click to expand...

Any pharmacy in Canada and they sell them without needing a prescription, too.
 
KPassa said:
Ah, so he had a hypo, not a hyper. DKA is when ketones develop from not enough insulin, not enough food, and usually some sort of infection. Hypoglycemia is when their BGs drop too low. I apologize; I thought he had been hospitalized with DKA.
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Sorry for the lack of clarity, two days before the hypo he was DKA with ketones high sugar levels then I tried to keep it low and he stopped eating all together and crashed. From now on, I am going to be very strict on measuring his food and water. 2 thousand dollar lesson lol
 
Sorry, to clarify the steroid and the antibiotic for the cholangihepatitis which can be caused by either inflammation or bacteria. When we got this condition under control his pancreatitis levels decreased too as it was obviously ticking off his pancreas. According to his spec fPL levels he has chronic pancreatitis with the odd flair.

You were very lucky to catch that hypo and get him to the vet in time. With lantus whilst it is understood that every cat is different and every situation is to we have protocols that we follow and lots of members who can helped get you started and then help you each step of the way. If you look around the forum you will see there are sub forums on Lantus and levimer, prozinc, etc.
 
phlika29 said:
Sorry, to clarify the steroid and the antibiotic for the cholangihepatitis which can be caused by either inflammation or bacteria. When we got this condition under control his pancreatitis levels decreased too as it was obviously ticking off his pancreas. According to his spec fPL levels he has chronic pancreatitis with the odd flair.

You were very lucky to catch that hypo and get him to the vet in time. With lantus whilst it is understood that every cat is different and every situation is to we have protocols that we follow and lots of members who can helped get you started and then help you each step of the way. If you look around the forum you will see there are sub forums on Lantus and levimer, prozinc, etc.
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Yeah thank you

Right now my biggest concern is his diet, and dropping the carbs
I'm buying 6lb of rabbit asap, and making Tigger go cold turkey when I get it. That'll drop his insulin dosage dramatically down
plus I am going to try a product called Canna Pet, I've seen the studies and research on humans and it has removed the insulin dependency. I know cats aren't humans, but its worth a try
 
I think you need to go carefully ant do too many things at once especially if he has pancreatitis.

There is a great pancreatitis yahoo group. They always recommend changing one thing at a time so you can see what the effect is.

So when tigger comes out of the vet what is your plan? I would not go swapping food and insulin all at the same time. What is he eating at the vets? I would make sure he continues with whatever meds they are giving him.
 
phlika29 said:
I think you need to go carefully ant do too many things at once especially if he has pancreatitis.

There is a great pancreatitis yahoo group. They always recommend changing one thing at a time so you can see what the effect is.

So when tigger comes out of the vet what is your plan? I would not go swapping food and insulin all at the same time. What is he eating at the vets? I would make sure he continues with whatever meds they are giving him.
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Yeah I'll be going slow and steady, no sudden things. I'm so excited tho to get him on a raw food diet how nature intended

When he gets home the plan is to hug, cuddle and kiss him!!!!!
Insulin -> Novalin, they are using my bottle I brought up there. And they are giving him Hills prescription sugar food, I feed him blue buffalo at home. I want to start transitioning him to home made wet food when the time is right. I am going to start glucose curving him daily til hes steady and zeroed in. I have a ReliOn Prime, any comments? Same as confirm or not?
The food I have to swap because what they are feeding him is 37% carbs, thats way to much. I still have lots of bluebuffalo back so I'll use the rest of that to ween him off dry food. They are just giving him IV electrolytes, I have the same at home and can deliver it sub q if I feel he is dehydrated

Thank you for your time everyone
 
Would you consider switching to a longer lasting insulin like lantus? I think that might really help. Would your vet consider this. As BJM said the Novolin does not last for all that long and therefore there will be a part of the day where he is not under control. Better all day control will be much easier with an insulin such as lantus.

This link tells you the current recommended guidelines
http://www.felinediabetes.com/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf
And frequently asked questions
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetes-faq-newcomers-start-here.2502/

I would ask that they give tigger an anti nausea med for you to either take home or for them to give an injection. You don't want hi to stop eating when he gets home

Finally I don't want to sound like I am being negative about raw food but for a cat with pancreatitis because of the bacterial load adding more pressure to the system, it might not be the best thing for him so go carefully. Also you have to add all the right ingredients to make it complete for a cat as they won't get the right vitamins from just the raw rabbit unless it is made up to be a complete food. There are plenty of really good quality canned foods on the market now. See links below. Click on the blue words in BJMs quote

BJM said:
There is a terrific food list at Cat Info. Anything with under 10% calories from carbohydrates is fine for daily feeding. I feed all of mine Friskies Pates.
Click to expand...

Not sure about the meter. My guess is that if you are getting readings okay then I am sure it is fine.

When a cat has gone low they may be more sensitive to insulin so you may need to go lower on the dose. When is he coming home? I think you need to start a new post in the main forum with a brief resume of what has happened and what your plan is and ask for advice. More people with much more experience than me will see it there and be able to help. Make sure you title is with exactly what you want ie help needed after hypo ,etc.
 
The ReliOn Micro and Confirm take the same test strips. The Prime takes a different (cheaper) set of test strips. We usually recommend for people new to testing to start out with the Confirm or Micro because it takes a smaller blood sample, which for some people might make or break their testing experience. If you're able to get blood and aren't having too many problems with testing, then the Prime is fine. I even switched to the Prime once we got testing down in my house. I still keep my Micro as a backup meter, though.
 
Alright well just got back home from visiting Tigger!
He was eating and drink great yesterday! But today he was off his anti-nausea medicine because they can only give it to him for 5 days without bad side effects and he puked today at 3pm and is not eating now(he did eat this morning but after the puke at 3pm he is not eating nor drinking). His glucose level is currently 94, he is doing good besides the not eating and drinking part. I syringe fed Tigger 30ml because he has to eat, he is toooooo skinnny! Man oh man! What do I do guys!? the nurse took a note and is passing it to the doctor about another anti-nausea
this vet bill is 2 grand already, for 8 days hospitalized
How did you guys afford your pet stays? I'm about to start working the corner! lol
 
Oh poor tigger. It is difficult to afford these sort of things.

They must be giving him cerenia as this is given for a few days and then a break. When he is not on this he can have ondansetron. When he comes home you will want to have access to one if not both of these medications. I personally found the ondansetron to be the most useful over a longer period of time.

Can I suggest that you read this thread about another kitty in hospital with something similar. Towards the middle and end if the thread you will see lots of advice and explanation. Feel free to start you own thread on the main forum too asking for help
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dka-feedback-guidance.130464/#post-1358793
 
I'm getting so depressed reading about this online, I read 50% of dogs with severe do not survive

Tigger is a fighter
it just scares me

please help me people please help -tears-

I'll call the vet now and tell them vitamin b12 now
 
There is a difference between acute pancreatitis and chronic pancreatitis. I'm assuming that statistic has to do with acute, which can be deadly. With chronic, it's more about pain management, anti-nausea, and plenty of fluids.
 
I have no idea what Tigger has, its bad what ever it is

is that your kitty in that picture? if so hes so gosh darn cute lol thanks for my first smile of the day
 
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