1/20-21 Lolly Update following near hypo

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Martha and Lolly (GA)

Martha and Lolly (GA)

Member Since 2015
Those of you helped me avoid a hypo night of the 18th, thank you again:bighug:

All these numbers are in spread sheet

I skipped am dose on 1/19, and tested at what I think is approximate nadir-- +7 of 314. Carbs shot her up, as you predicted. Her PMPS was 318. Shot 1u, a .5 reduction, her AMPS was 193. I have a hard time testing on T and TH, but my husband will do insulin, 1u at pm- next BG I could get was at +2.5 of 167. So numbers are coming down.

I spoke to Lolly's vet Tuesday; she pointed out that I did not follow the protocol on 1/17. With AMPS of 83 I should have reduced dose by .5 or 1, but mistakenly left it at 2u. She said the fact that she is coming down is a good sign - (it's likely that Lolly had been diabetic for a while before dx) I am to stay at 1u, do another curve this weekend. I expressed my concern that I can't get enough tests due to schedule, but she says she's never known a cat to hypo on 1u. ***WHAT do you think?***

I asked about getting a human glycometer, she was very emphatic in stating that they weren't accurate enough for a cat.

I really don't know what to think, since most here seem to use them. I have difficult financial constraints and it would really help to go to the human one. But I think I'd have to find another vet, and there don't seem to be many around here that do more than the 2 shots a day, no testing philosphy.

Anyway, I want to thank everyone again, and I will do my best to continue this protocol while keeping Lolly safe. I'll keep posting to spreadsheet, and try to do my "Condo". Any help and advice is appreciated!!
 
She may have never known a cat to hypo on 1 unit but that just shows her lack of experience. Vyktor did not hypo because he was closely monitored and managed but if you look at his spreadsheet on 1/4/2012 he was down to 31 on half a unit.

She is very wrong about the meters as I think you already realise. In fact over here in Australia most vets seem to use human meters. Furthermore I believe the Roomp and Rand study for tight regulation was conducted predominantly if not completely using human meters. Your vet will probably have some trouble understanding the numbers if she thinks in cat meter numbers but that is the only problem I can foresee and quite frankly you won't need her to understand the numbers if you're testing and posting the results here anyway. The group here has so much more experience with diabetes than your vet would have - like comparing an ocean of knowledge to a drop!

If you are otherwise happy with your vet I don't think there is a need to swap vets. You would just need to tell her what you're doing in relation to the diabetes rather than asking - don't forget you are paying her to provide a service so it is up to you what services you want. Let her know that you appreciate her as a vet but for this particular problem you feel more comfortable dealing with it in accordance with the vast experience of others.

My vet was a bit heeby about my decision to follow the board rather than their advice initially but that was my decision and he accepted it. He kept a nervous eye on Vyktor's spreadsheet for a while until he was satisfied that what I was doing made sense (even though it wasn't how he would have treated) and then told me to just keep doing what I was doing. The results speak for themselves...

I am really concerned about Lolly getting her insulin without testing tonight he could have shot a dangerously low number without knowing it. Can your husband not learn to test?

It would be helpful to add ALPHATRAK to the top of your spreadsheet as well - in a row just under the colour coding - most people here use human meters which read lower so to avoid any potentially dangerous errors the more you shove it in our face that you're using an alphatrack the better.

You've certainly had the baptisim of fire!
 
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Vyktors Mum said:
She may have never known a cat to hypo on 1 unit but that just shows her lack of experience. Vyktor did not hypo because he was closely monitored and managed but if you look at his spreadsheet on 1/4/2012 he was down to 31 on half a unit.

She is very wrong about the meters as I think you already realise. In fact over here in Australia most vets seem to use human meters. Furthermore I believe the Roomp and Rand study for tight regulation was conducted predominantly if not completely using human meters. Your vet will probably have some trouble understanding the numbers if she thinks in cat meter numbers but that is the only problem I can foresee and quite frankly you won't need her to understand the numbers if you're testing and posting the results here anyway. The group here has so much more experience with diabetes than your vet would have - like comparing an ocean of knowledge to a drop!

If you are otherwise happy with your vet I don't think there is a need to swap vets. You would just need to tell her what you're doing in relation to the diabetes rather than asking - don't forget you are paying her to provide a service so it is up to you what services you want. Let her know that you appreciate her as a vet but for this particular problem you feel more comfortable dealing with it in accordance with the vast experience of others.

My vet was a bit heeby about my decision to follow the board rather than their advice initially but that was my decision and he accepted it. He kept a nervous eye on Vyktor's spreadsheet for a while until he was satisfied that what I was doing made sense (even though it wasn't how he would have treated) and then told me to just keep doing what I was doing. The results speak for themselves...

I am really concerned about Lolly getting her insulin without testing tonight he could have shot a dangerously low number without knowing it. Can your husband not learn to test?

It would be helpful to add ALPHATRAK to the top of your spreadsheet as well - in a row just under the colour coding - most people here use human meters which read lower so to avoid any potentially dangerous errors the more you shove it in our face that you're using an alphatrack the better.

You've certainly had the baptisim of fire!
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Thanks Vyktor's Mom,

I appreciate your clear answer. I do not like the non-testing before a shot, I'm really in a bind. I don't know if I can ever get him to test. He really doesn't want to, and I don't think he's really on board with this protocol, which takes more $ and effort. I did try to teach him (and my technique still leaves something to be desired), but he's just seems to be one of those people who is not good at doing this kind of thing. I'll try and work on him, as I cannot get home on T and TH.

I would prefer to find another Vet. I don't think her instructions to me were very clear. She also tends to speak in overly technical jargon (you should have heard her explanation about why a human glucometer doesn't work). Worst, she is VERY unavailable. She works at the clinic T and TH only, and though I have asked repeatedly to be allowed to get in touch with her on an emergency basis, she just refers me to the other practice vet, who is not on board with TR. We have an arrangement of a phone appointment on Tues at 4. I missed it last week, and she couldn't talk to me until Thurs.

Vets won't tell me if they practice TR over the phone, so I've had to pay for cosultations just to find out!! So far tried two more, no luck, and one told me increase to 2 and don't worry about testing- Lolly would be dead if I hadn't tested.

In short, I do want a new vet, but don't know how to locate one that's available and does TR. This vet has never done it before, and keeps telling me its a completely NEW protocol, when it's obviously been practiced for years. She does not approve of me getting advice from FDMB, though she doesn't come out and say it, just ignores what I suggest.

****HOW DO I FIND A NEW TR VET?*** I think i'll make a post just that heading-- in Lantus and reg Health. from.

Thank you again.
 
Where do you live? Maybe you could put your location in your signature. There is also a database of members and where they live, I'm not sure where it is, but that might give you a connection to find a vet too. You and DH (Dear Husband) are doing a SUPER job! Give him a big hug for being willing to give shots. That is pretty creepy for us non-medical, squeamish types. :) I do hope he will be willing to test in the near future, because it's so important to keep Lolly safe.

We started out with the AlphaTrak and eventually switched to a human meter, so much cheaper, and easier to use too.
Liz
 
You both are doing a very wonderful job with Lolly. :D I, too, use a human monitor and strips, which is the Relion Confirm. I bought the monitor at Walmart, and get the strips there, too. The strips are $9.00/box of 50. Not bad, really. You can always shop around and find out the best deal for you both. Good luck, and keep up the excellent work!:D
 
If I had followed the advice here from the beginning maybe Max would have gone OTJ or gotten regulated sooner. I used my vet who I love but because of health issues with my mom and my fear of testing I didn't. When I decided to was when I couldn't get ahold of my vet in the middle of the night and I realized I needed more immediate help. I started sending him the ss each week. Most of the time he agreed with the advice here. He's a tad more conservative. Now he doesn't even call when he gets one unless he is concerned.

I know people that use an Alpha for their vet when they do curves and a human meter the rest of the time. Might be a good compromise. I have a Relion Micro and a Arkray which is a generic version which I can get cheaper test strips for and the results are sometimes exactly the same and sometimes within the 20% meter variance. It's nice to have a second one for when you aren't sure if the test makes sense.
 
Martha,
I am new to FD diagnosis as well (2 months) and started using the Relion Prime a month ago and I use the AlphaTrak as my back up to monitor really low numbers. It has worked out great for me. The Relion gives me numbers lower than the Alpha. I have noticed that when my cat is either below 100 or above 500, the variance between the two monitors decreases significantly. Hope that helps.
 
I knew a bunch of my post disappeared while I was looking for the links!:banghead: You can put your location in your personal information too :
  • click on your name on the left side of the dark blue bar on top of the page
  • select "personal information"
  • fill in location
That way if someone clicks on you avatar they can see where you are. It also helps advice givers to know what time zone you are in. I have my location in both there and my signature.

Be a little patient w/ DH, he'll be able to do the tests. It's early days yet. I think testing is easier than giving the shot! I've done it in my sleep many times. John is squeemish about blood, but even he learned to do it! Of course I was going out of town and he HAD to finally do it!
icon_rolleyes.gif
 
With regards your partner whilst mine was happy to help test he was concerned about the possible restriction on our lives, cost, etc. I kept reminding him that If we put the effort and time in at the beginning we have a window of opportunity that means he might be able to come off the insulin completely. So our goal was off the juice or tight regulation.

I have a good relationship with my vet but once I had the insulin on a day to day basis I was guided by the members here. A vet won't be able to hold your hand through a problem day or night. These people live and breathe diabetes. So I fed back to my vet and he gave advice when I did or just gave encouragement.
 
In case I didn't note it before, there are Vet Interview Topics in my signature link, should you need them.
 
Of course we're another human meter user here, too....nothing wrong with using the Alphatrak at all, but it is so expensive.

I don't know if you'll find a vet who specifically practices TR, as the majority of caregivers won't go that route, so the vets don't even bother trying. What you need to find is a a vet who supports you doing TR and let's you make the dosing decisions based on the data you gather and you're own personal knowledge of both the protocol and of LollT. My own vet was iffy about it at first, but when she saw Trix's SS and how we were making sure Trix stayed safe at all times, she was fine with us doing, and ultimately left all dosing decisions up to us.

Hopefully DH will come along in the process. It can be overwhelming at times (especially at first) so maybe once he gets into the groove of it, it will be smooth sailing.
 
I use a human meter for daily monitoring and Alphatrak for my vet. The human meter supplies are much less which makes it easy to do as much testing as I think is needed. Sometimes I can get a reading for both meters with one stick.
 
Hello Martha, here is the link to your last thread here for people who want to follow along. We like to add the link to the previous post so we can see what was suggested previously.

Lolly seems to be doing quite well on the 1.0U dose this time. Very nice numbers for an AlphaTrak. The spreadsheet doesn't show what you shot this morning, but I presume it's 1.0U.

I'm going to add to the chorus about getting a human BG meter. My vet uses a OneTouch Ultra in her office. She says it's tested very close to lab results every time she's used it. They also told me to just find a meter that needs the smallest amount of blood. A month or two later the vet asked if I wanted to use the cat meter, but it was a hard sell given that they use the human one themselves. :p

As for finding a vet, find someone you like to work with, will listen to you, and is willing to learn. My vet prescribed Caninsulin - cause that's what they did there. It's a lousy insulin for cats. A locum vet got me onto Lantus and pointed me to FDMB. My Neko has acromegaly - something the vet didn't think I needed to test for, but she humored me. She was more surprised than me at the positive test results. My vet's been learning a lot from Neko. But her approach has always been to lay out the options, and ask what I want to do. You are with Lolly all day, the vet just gets to see a snapshot. You know Lolly best.
 
I wonder if your DH is a little squeamish when it comes to blood and just doesn't want to admit it? We've heard that one too, but with some patients and reminding him that if you can get her under control sooner rather than later, maybe he just might go into remission and then your lives would really change!

We've been through 4 vets before we landed with #5 and she's a member of the American Association of Feline Practitioners ...she still doesn't understand TR, so when I have to go in with China and she gives me "advice", I nod my head in agreement and go home and do what the people here have taught me.

You're the one holding the syringe and you're the one who has to deal with it day in/day out. If you can find a vet that will work with you, that's great, but if you can find a vet that will at least write your scripts for insulin when you need them, you can deal with the diabetes here

Usually once you show them your spreadsheet and offer to let them follow along, a lot of them will say "continue what you're doing" too!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello Martha, here is the link to your last thread here for people who want to follow along. We like to add the link to the previous post so we can see what was suggested previously.

Lolly seems to be doing quite well on the 1.0U dose this time. Very nice numbers for an AlphaTrak. The spreadsheet doesn't show what you shot this morning, but I presume it's 1.0U.

I'm going to add to the chorus about getting a human BG meter. My vet uses a OneTouch Ultra in her office. She says it's tested very close to lab results every time she's used it. They also told me to just find a meter that needs the smallest amount of blood. A month or two later the vet asked if I wanted to use the cat meter, but it was a hard sell given that they use the human one themselves. :p

As for finding a vet, find someone you like to work with, will listen to you, and is willing to learn. My vet prescribed Caninsulin - cause that's what they did there. It's a lousy insulin for cats. A locum vet got me onto Lantus and pointed me to FDMB. My Neko has acromegaly - something the vet didn't think I needed to test for, but she humored me. She was more surprised than me at the positive test results. My vet's been learning a lot from Neko. But her approach has always been to lay out the options, and ask what I want to do. You are with Lolly all day, the vet just gets to see a snapshot. You know Lolly best.
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Thanks Wendy. From reading posts, I'm starting to think I should stop complaining and just be happy that my vet wants to do TR. In fact, I wouldn't have known about it except for her. She is so adamant about the Alpha Trak though. I'll keep with it for now, and when I know what I'm doing, I'll switch. Or use KeikosHuman's idea of both, with the purpose of showing my vet it works.

Wendy- question for you: I thought I was supposed to post one thread to the Lantus forum each day with my numbers. Should I always post a link from the previous post then?
 
Martha said:
Wendy- question for you: I thought I was supposed to post one thread to the Lantus forum each day with my numbers. Should I always post a link from the previous post then?
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You are correct, a new post each day with the numbers is helpful because of all the people here. If you do include that link back to the previous post, it's easier for us to see what happened before. Some people post less often than each day, so it's much faster to find the link if you include it.
 
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