Skinky update. New Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
skinky44

skinky44

Member Since 2014
Good afternoon everyone! Here's a brief update of the little girl.

Her BG tested 176 w/ a back up meter.

I think she's a little better. *slightly* less swelling around the nose, but still quite prevalent. Still syringe feeding her and giving her flucazole. She makes less gurgling and rumblings in tummy area. The eye is still an issue. She pooped! Little oily, not sure if that's the cat sure that's making it like that

The vet mobile now has an online pharmacy. It's a little limited and I"m hoping I can get some scripts from them. They actually do NOT call scripts in, so hopefully this new formed alliance they have will help me.

I'm going to see if they will give me approval to order something for her eye. They do not have ondansetron but they do have cerenia tabs. Much of a difference??

Off to read up on posts, administer SubQs and hunt for more Hills AD somewhere before it's too late. I only bought two cans - I wasn't sure if she would make it through that...but my little fighter did! If I can't find the Hills I might try the liver shake if i can get the grocery store to puree the liver...then again, I'm still nervous that it might upset her stomach, she might not be at a point for that yet..

Any recommendations on eye treatment - if i can get approval?

Thanks EVERYONE for your support and wishes!
 
Good afternoon Laura and sweet Skinky! Good report overall. I like hearing that you're getting more help from the mobile vet. Hoping you can find the Hills but I don't think I've heard anyone's cat having tummy issues with the liver shake. If you can't find the Hills a/d, Royal Canin 'Recovery RC' is good too, I actually like it better as it's easier to syringe feed.

HUGS and prayers continue!
 
Laura,

Great to hear that Skinky's doing better - poops 'n' all! I'm glad the tummy rumbling's easing off. Hopefully that will help Skinky feel a bit more comfortable better, too. :) ((((Brave Skinky))))

You're doing a wonderful job looking after Skinky. :) Are you managing to get any bit of rest yourself?

I have seen other members here talk about using Cerenia tablets for their cats. I don't have any experience of using the tablets. I don't think the tablets are available for feline prescriptions in the UK. Saoirse did have one Cerenia injection and it helped her to eat. If you get hold of a prescription, perhaps some of the more experienced members here could tell you more about giving Cerenia tablets.

Hope your expedition goes well and you get all the supplies you need. Sending prayers and keeping you both in my thoughts.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
 
Last edited:
Ondansetron and cerenia work differently and can even be given together. Ondansetron is typically given twice a day while cerenia is one a day. Some vets consider that cerenia should not be given continuously without a break. I myself thinks that cerenia is better but it all depends upon the cause of the nausea.
 
Hi Laura! Happy to see you started a new thread. It's so good to hear you're seeing some improvement! :D

I've used cerenia a few times, but not ondansetron so I can't compare. I'm sure others will weigh in with their experiences. I'm afraid the eye problems Skinky is having is beyond my experience or expertise. Besides using warm compresses and making a "steam room" for her in the bathroom, you'll have to rely on others who have gone through this or one of your vets.

What I'd like to do is re-visit the subject of giving Skinky the insulin she needs at this time. I understand the 3 vets you've seen are in disagreement about whether Skinky is diabetic. Actually, her numbers may come down if her eye problems are resolved, but she's nowhere near that point at the moment.

Overall, Skinky's numbers really haven't been that bad. When a kitty's numbers aren't "that bad" we *usually* don't push giving insulin in an otherwise healthy cat. However, Skinky does not fall into that category. I think we would all agree Skinky is one sick kitty. Frankly, I'm very worried she'll develop ketones and/or hepatic lipidosis. As I posted in your last thread, the recipe for developing ketones which can rapidly turn into diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is:

an inadequate supply of insulin + infection/inflammation/systemic stress + inappetance.

Right now we have all three of those ingredients in place. In an effort to ward off ketones, I'd like to suggest giving Skinky a small dose of insulin if her BG is over 200 (shots not to be given any more frequently than every 12 hours if needed).
  • How much does Skinky currently weigh?
  • You still have Lantus, right?
  • Were you able to get more test strips today?
If you agree, we can discuss a dose after those questions have been answered. You might even want to discuss with your vet. :)

Hepatic Lipidosis is also a huge concern. I know you haven't wanted to push food on Skinky for fear you'll upset her tummy, but if I may, I'd like to suggest making it a goal to increase the amount fed everyday. There was a time my own cat was so sick that I remember assist feeding her small amounts with a syringe practically any time I walked by her. Eating will not only build her strength, but it'll go a long way in preventing her from developing hepatic lipidosis AND ketones. When Alex was critically ill, I made it my goal to feed her normal amount plus another half of that. Trust me, it didn't happen overnight, but eventually we met the goal. Boy, did I ever breathe a little easier when I knew she was getting enough calories to prevent these other illnesses from happening.

Hang in there and try to take care of yourself, too. I know first-hand how mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausting it can be to care for your sweet and precious kitty.
:bighug::bighug::bighug:


Just my thoughts...
I'm sure others will voice their own.
 
Laura, were you able to track down any of the a/d food you were hoping to find?
 
The thing is, I'm inclined to putting the treatment of the diabetes on hold, till I have some confidence she can make it through a few more days and get stronger. This was also suggested by Vet #1. She was at her absolute worst when mamma was very gung ho about syringe feeding, sub q's, pills and testing her BG. With the first three happening, Skinky became fairly neurotic and fitful. And this made testing her BG quite difficult. Honestly, all of that was just too much for her. Last night she was fairly calm, so I decided to test her BG and abided by what a vet #2 had suggested about administering insulin only if over 250, and if she had about a half can in her, which was the case last night.

I do syringe her frequently, small doses as often as possible seems to work best.

Right now, these are my priorities:
1. keeping her nourishment up, without making her gag, without causing her stomach to gurgle. We've built up to a little over a half can today and we continue to increase that. As long as I don't overdo it at any one sitting, she has been handling it well.
2. getting the SubQ's into her.
3. Doing the first two in such a way that she isn't absolutely miserable and stressed out and her little heart pumping a mile a minute. So it's time consuming, but we're making it work.
4. Getting that swelling down. The pictures don't always capture it. The steam helps, but often it comes back. It is difficult for me to be subjective, which is why I take so many pics of her. But it has to come down, and it certainly can't increase. If the latter happens, I'll be giving her that final "release".

Her weight is just under 7 lbs
I have SOME lantus left
can get a new meter across street, open 24 hours.

i'd be interested in what your viewpoint is about how much insulin to give her, what threshold number you would use. But I want to emphasize that I am disinclined to re-start pricking her continually. She is NOT an easy cat to draw blood from, but we were getting a routine down. Then when the SubQs and the syringe feeding entered the picture, combined with her getting skittish for the bg samples, she really REALLY nose dived health wise and I can't have that happen again.

Your advice is definitely appreciated - and more than welcomed....you're an experienced sugar momma! And I'd like to have it, if not to act on now, then at least I have it to act on when she either gets stronger, chills out more, or gets back to regular eating. .. THEN I can act on your suggestions..

I do have the ketone sticks and she has thus far tested completely negative. I have about 3 left and you bring up a good point/reminder that I should pick up some more...

ALSO if anyone has suggestions on how to reduce this swelling, please let me know. My plan B might be to use prednisone but I am aware of this being a problem w/ insulin/diabetes....I'm still hoping the flucazole will kick in more, combined with better nutrition, to aid in fighting this...
 
Carl & Polly said:
Laura, were you able to track down any of the a/d food you were hoping to find?
Click to expand...

Hey Carl, yes I sure did! Had to make a couple of stops but picked up two cans. I started mixing in a teaspoon of wellness turkey grain free too, to give it a little bit of flavor...and good ol' cat sure for added calories and nutrients. She seems stronger, much more so than wednesday, still a long ways to go. Her swelling waxes and wanes which is both encouraging and frustrating.

I actually got the food from the lower east side animal hospital and asked the vet tech ALL sorts of questions about xrays, cryptococ. and cancer. Seemed like a nice place. They said they don't seem many cases of cryptococ. fungus.
 
skinky44 said:
i'd be interested in what your viewpoint is about how much insulin to give her, what threshold number you would use. But I want to emphasize that I am disinclined to re-start pricking her continually. She is NOT an easy cat to draw blood from, but we were getting a routine down. Then when the SubQs and the syringe feeding entered the picture, combined with her getting skittish for the bg samples, she really REALLY nose dived health wise and I can't have that happen again.

Your advice is definitely appreciated - and more than welcomed....you're an experienced sugar momma! And I'd like to have it, if not to act on now, then at least I have it to act on when she either gets stronger, chills out more, or gets back to regular eating. .. THEN I can act on your suggestions..
Click to expand...
At this point in time (subject to change as/if she changes), I would suggest shooting a conservative dose of 0.25 unit of lantus insulin if her BG is close to or at 200 or over. I'm basing this suggestion after figuring out and giving due consideration to what the initial starting dose would be if she didn't have these other problems (using an actual weight of 6.5 pounds we would suggest an initial starting dose of 0.75 unit) as well as your wishes and goals. As mentioned, this advice may change at any given time. When offering suggestions, we follow Skinky's lead.

I understand and can respect where you're coming from. Skinky is your kitty and you hold the syringe. We're here to share our concerns, offer suggestions and give you support. :)


Lurkers and those following this thread:
This advice is offered for Skinky and Skinky only. She has her own set of unique circumstances which require special considerations.
If you find yourself in a similar situation, please start a new thread to ask for help for your kitty.
 
Hi All!
Glad to see some familiar names looking in on Skinky! I had the pleasure to meet Skinky and her mom a few weeks ago. I went to demonstrate how to home test and left some supplies. Skinky sure is a tough girl and we are praying something starts to make her turn around. She was not easy to test for me, she was fine, she sat there but to find the "sweet spot" was not easy. After poking a few times she did start to get agitated. With all that Laura is doing to her the multiple BG testing seems to be a little over whelming for both of them. Is there a way to just keep Skinky at a "safe" BG (ie-not worrying about her going to high or too low)? I hope that is not a stupid question.
 
Here are some pics. If you've noticed, i swear she changes not only from day to day but from one hour to the next. To me, her swelling in general seems to have gone done, her eye looks like it's popping out less. But the swelling besides the nose seems to have come to a little bit more of a head... Her nose is covered w/ antibiotic ointment
 

Attachments

  • sat tumor 1.jpg
    sat tumor 1.jpg
    58.8 KB · Views: 164
  • tumor 2.jpg
    tumor 2.jpg
    58.3 KB · Views: 157
  • tumor 3.jpg
    tumor 3.jpg
    51.3 KB · Views: 174
JenniferF said:
Is there a way to just keep Skinky at a "safe" BG (ie-not worrying about her going to high or too low)? I hope that is not a stupid question.
Click to expand...
No, it's not a stupid question. The problem is there are no guarantees.
In this case we don't have the data necessary to make even an educated guess. I wish I could say otherwise...
 
skinky44 said:
Here are some pics. If you've noticed, i swear she changes not only from day to day but from one hour to the next. To me, her swelling in general seems to have gone done, her eye looks like it's popping out less. But the swelling besides the nose seems to have come to a little bit more of a head... Her nose is covered w/ antibiotic ointment
Click to expand...
Poor baby! That looks like it would be so uncomfortable! It's no wonder she doesn't want anyone messing with her.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
At this point in time (subject to change as/if she changes), I would suggest shooting a conservative dose of 0.25 unit of lantus insulin if her BG is close to or at 200 or over. I'm basing this suggestion after figuring out and giving due consideration to what the initial starting dose would be if she didn't have these other problems (using an actual weight of 6.5 pounds we would suggest an initial starting dose of 0.75 unit) as well as your wishes and goals. As mentioned, this advice may change at any given time. When offering suggestions, we follow Skinky's lead.

I understand and can respect where you're coming from. Skinky is your kitty and you hold the syringe. We're here to share our concerns, offer suggestions and give you support. :)


Lurkers and those following this thread:
This advice is offered for Skinky and Skinky only. She has her own set of unique circumstances which require special considerations.
If you find yourself in a similar situation, please start a new thread to ask for help for your kitty.
Click to expand...

Thank you Jill! GREAT info! let me ask you....if i were to entertain using prednisone to try to attack this swelling, how would that interplay with all of this...
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Poor baby! That looks like it would be so uncomfortable! It's no wonder she doesn't want anyone messing with her.
Click to expand...

I know, I know...she really is a trooper. She IS getting stronger. Today she couldn't wait to get out of the kitty sauna and when she did, she hopped right up on the bed, which is JUST adjacent to the loveseat. As I type this now, her head is about six inches away from me. So you see how we are so day to day, it's not that I don't appreciate or acknowledge how important the diabetic aspect is, I just don't think we can re-introduce the monitoring at this stage...
 
skinky44 said:
Thank you Jill! GREAT info! let me ask you....if i were to entertain using prednisone to try to attack this swelling, how would that interplay with all of this...
Click to expand...
You know, obviously we try to avoid steroids, BUT sometimes there are darn good reasons to incorporate a steroid into kitty's care. Under these circumstances, if a steroid increases BG numbers, so be it. We simply work the insulin dose around it. In other words, we give kitty the amount of insulin needed to control blood glucose. Not a big deal!
 
I agree. If steroids can fix it, you adjust accordingly.
Some people have a really hard time getting kitty to eat low carb canned food because they are dry food addicts. It isn't the best choice but it beats kitty starving. If the "cost" is a higher dose, so be it.
I think if it comes down to steroids or nothing, you go with steroids and compensate as needed. The swelling thing seems to be the primary issue, so that has to go away.
 
skinky44 said:
So you see how we are so day to day, it's not that I don't appreciate or acknowledge how important the diabetic aspect is, I just don't think we can re-introduce the monitoring at this stage...
Click to expand...
Believe me. I "get it".

Before I lost Alex this past September, she used up every single one of her nine lives over the years. I had to make calls and judgements based on what was practical, do-able, and tolerable... and even that could change from day-to-day. On the other hand, it wouldn't be responsible of me if I didn't share concerns with you. I'd hate to see another problem you weren't aware of affect Skinky... a problem that could have been avoided if you had only known.
 
I also think she looks better but that spot now looks like an abscess. Poor sweetie.

I'm glad to hear she is feeling a bit more spunky. Good job gettting the calories in her, Laura.

I also like the idea of a conservative dose. Lantus is not like Humulin N. With N, you could shoot it once or twice, it would hopefully bring the numbers down for a very short period, and then numbers would go up. With lantus, you need some consistency in shooting so shooting it just once if numbers get higher, and then not shooting isn't an effective way to use the insulin...typically..
 
Last edited:
If it turns out you need to give steroids, the more consistently those are dosed, the more predictable the glucose levels will be.
Translation: with daily steroid dosing, it may be easier to manage the glucose than with alternate day dosing.
 
I'm HOPING its this cryptococcus. This is why I pushed for the antifungal med. However, it seems that it can take a long time to have an effect..and she might have already suffered permanent damage if it is this cryptoc virus. Even the vet hospital that I went to today to pick up the Hill's...when I engaged the vet tech in a conversation, she was familiar with cryptoc but said they get very few cases of that. I find that strange because if an animal gets it from inhaling pigeon the dust from pigeon droppings...let me tell you we got pigeons outside of the windows of closets that masquerade as apartments like you wouldn't believe. Half of us might as well say pigeons are our roommates. I don't know if it's just under-diagnosed or if I"m just reaching too much.

http://vetbook.org/wiki/cat/index.php/Cryptococcus_spp

Carl - she hasn't eaten dry kibble in a long time. If I thought that she would nibble on it though, I would put it out. In a few days, I might re-introduce the app stimulant cyproheptadine , maybe w/ either peptic or one of the other anti nausea meds if I can get them. I don't want to start too soon. When I gave her the ceph last friday, it just broke my heart. She "run" out to the feeding area, go right up to the bowl ...and then stop. and then she would cry, because i guess she wanted to eat so badly. I haven't given her any more ceph since then. With everything going on, this was actually the saddest for me to see...

The vets have written her off as cancer. The good news is they are working with me on what I want, provided I sign off that I understand xyz drug may have a very bad outcome. they do not want to take responsibility for giving her fluconazole w/o having done a fungus test - and i don't blame them. According to this one vet, the fungus test would have involved anesthetizing her and getting a soft tissue sample, so that wasn't going to happen. he wasn't familiar with a latex agglutination test. but i'm grateful he wrote a script for me for a compounding flucazole drug for her. She's been on it since Wednesday evening...
 

Attachments

  • cryptoc nose.jpg
    cryptoc nose.jpg
    92.1 KB · Views: 149
BJM and Jill: I thought the 'roids would throw her sugars way off and that it would be best to have her BG at a 'manageable' number before introducing the roids. not that i might have the time to do that.

I don't mean to sound all over the place w/ medications. just trying to be prepared should I feel that I need to immediately change track on what I'm doing.

because the fluconazole is supposed to take a while to work, i'm really trying/hoping/praying that it's going to have an impact...like tomorrow. it of course won't and it's like watching paint dry. Few of the vets i've been to and few of the vets i've phoned seem familiar with this fungal agent...although the first vet did on his own say that it COULD be a fungal infection.
 
It'll depend on the dose and her individual response. It might really kick up the glucose, or not. An option, when you have a med like that and do get an exaggerated response, is to use a tiny bolus of R insulin to knock down the high from it, so the usual insulin can do its thing. If it comes to that, there are several folks here who can inform you of safe ways to do that.
 
Laura, I wasn't suggesting you feed dry. Just used that as an example of how some people need to balance insulin dose with complications. But yes, if it were me, and my cat would eat dry on her own but not canned, she'd be getting dry food and a little more insulin. Whatever works big picture-wise.

I had one kitty, years ago, with a swollen face. We tried hot compresses, ointments, creams, eyedrops that probably had steroids in them. But he was a totally different case. He had no eyes, blind from birth. When he was found as a feral kitten, one of four, all of them had some sort of infection in their eyes. Winkie had one eyeball removed, and the other left in place. But it was so damaged it didn't work. It was basically scar tissue that looked like an eye. Winkie lived for 14 years if I remember correctly, and if you've never seen a totally blind cat function as well as one with perfect vision, it was pretty miraculous.
In Winkie's case, it did turn out to be inoperable cancer. Ironically, the empty eye socket concealed the tumor for a while and by the time his face started swelling, it was too late to do anything about.

I didn't even want to tell you that, because I don't think your dealing with cancer. Winkie never came close to pigeons, and there was no fungus or infection involved. And no noticeable outward signs like you've seen on Skinky. I just think it's sad if the vets have "written her off".

After the fact, with my diabetic cat, Bob - his vet told me after the fact that when she sent him home with me after dka, that she really didn't think he'd make it. She would have never told me that if he'd died. But 12 weeks later, I brought him to the vet for a check up along with my notebook that passed as a spreadsheet.
I laid the notebook on the exam table, and told her " Bob hasn't had a shot in two weeks. He's done with this diabetes crap". It was awesome! I made her cry. Happy tears.

I pray the only tears out of your eyes in the days ahead are happy tears.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Critter Mom said:
Laura,

Great to hear that Skinky's doing better - poops 'n' all! I'm glad the tummy rumbling's easing off. Hopefully that will help Skinky feel a bit more comfortable better, too. :) ((((Brave Skinky))))

You're doing a wonderful job looking after Skinky. :) Are you managing to get any bit of rest yourself?

I have seen other members here talk about using Cerenia tablets for their cats. I don't have any experience of using the tablets. I don't think the tablets are available for feline prescriptions in the UK. Saoirse did have one Cerenia injection and it helped her to eat. If you get hold of a prescription, perhaps some of the more experienced members here could tell you more about giving Cerenia tablets.

Hope your expedition goes well and you get all the supplies you need. Sending prayers and keeping you both in my thoughts.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
Click to expand...

Hi Critter Mom! Thank you! Absolutely very little rest for me. Next week I start physical therapy and resume doctors appts, so I do hope she's more improved by then.. He gave her a cerenia injection, but the vet store does have the cerenia pills online, if the vet approves it, but not the other ones that begin with an O.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for all of your prayers and help! :) :)
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Laura, has anyone given you the link to our collection of Financial Help Links?
A little help with finances may be helpful.
Click to expand...

NO! I did get an email about a particular organization - but I will definitely check out your link. The Animal Hospital in Manhattan can provide some assistance, but you have to pay for everything first and whether they offer assistance depends on prognosis. Haven't these people heard? Age is only a number!

I will review those links. I know I had googled and found some organizations but nearly all of them had curtailed additional applications due to low funding.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Believe me. I "get it".

Before I lost Alex this past September, she used up every single one of her nine lives over the years. I had to make calls and judgements based on what was practical, do-able, and tolerable... and even that could change from day-to-day. On the other hand, it wouldn't be responsible of me if I didn't share concerns with you. I'd hate to see another problem you weren't aware of affect Skinky... a problem that could have been avoided if you had only known.
Click to expand...

Girl, I don't even like to contemplate all of the problems she might have. I haven't read up too much on the hep. lip. issue from not eating, I truly hope she hasn't developed that. I'm concerned about her kidneys, lungs, liver and heart. Kidneys and Lungs due to not eating and the impact of the diff meds. Heart and lungs because of the way she is breathing. Sorry about Alex. I see that you do totally get it. I'm new to all of this and I do appreciate everyone's experience and input.
 
Carl & Polly said:
Laura, I wasn't suggesting you feed dry. Just used that as an example of how some people need to balance insulin dose with complications. But yes, if it were me, and my cat would eat dry on her own but not canned, she'd be getting dry food and a little more insulin. Whatever works big picture-wise.

I had one kitty, years ago, with a swollen face. We tried hot compresses, ointments, creams, eyedrops that probably had steroids in them. But he was a totally different case. He had no eyes, blind from birth. When he was found as a feral kitten, one of four, all of them had some sort of infection in their eyes. Winkie had one eyeball removed, and the other left in place. But it was so damaged it didn't work. It was basically scar tissue that looked like an eye. Winkie lived for 14 years if I remember correctly, and if you've never seen a totally blind cat function as well as one with perfect vision, it was pretty miraculous.
In Winkie's case, it did turn out to be inoperable cancer. Ironically, the empty eye socket concealed the tumor for a while and by the time his face started swelling, it was too late to do anything about.

I didn't even want to tell you that, because I don't think your dealing with cancer. Winkie never came close to pigeons, and there was no fungus or infection involved. And no noticeable outward signs like you've seen on Skinky. I just think it's sad if the vets have "written her off".

After the fact, with my diabetic cat, Bob - his vet told me after the fact that when she sent him home with me after dka, that she really didn't think he'd make it. She would have never told me that if he'd died. But 12 weeks later, I brought him to the vet for a check up along with my notebook that passed as a spreadsheet.
I laid the notebook on the exam table, and told her " Bob hasn't had a shot in two weeks. He's done with this diabetes crap". It was awesome! I made her cry. Happy tears.

I pray the only tears out of your eyes in the days ahead are happy tears.
Click to expand...

WINKIE!! Oh my gosh that is so cute. I LOVE your story!! I remember seeing a three legged dog on la-de-da Charles St. in Beacon Hill, Boston. This little guy was going up to all the tourists, happy as could be, everyone was looking for his owner and I think wanted to take him home. SUCH spirit! I'd love to see videos if you have any? One vet suggested removing Skink's eye to access whatever is in the nose. Not sure if I"ll go that route, because we dont' know IF it's cancer or IF it's spread. I HOPE it's not cancer either, but this seems to be the general consensus. I learned that the first vet told the second vet he didn't think Skinkys' chances were very good.

Winkie lived for 14 years? I think that's an awesome story. I'm glad you made the vet cry happy tears too and I'm very ready for mine...!
 
I have used both cerenia and ondansetron for my cat both at different times and even at the same time. In my experience cerenia works better to control physical vomiting but ondansetron works better for ongoing nausea.

I have given my cat cerenia and have seen him unsuccessfully try to throw up food whereas have found that when I give ondansetron dose 20 minutes before his food in the morning and then another 12 hours later he eats well all day. I have had my cat on ondansetron for approx 3 years for his pancreatitis.
 
Carl & Polly said:
I just think it's sad if the vets have "written her off".
Click to expand...

So do I. Big time. I'm not saying that the vet you consulted is wrong, but vets don't always get it right.

Saoirse was written off as an "old lady" who had had "a good run" in May of last year. The vet completely failed to recognise that her symptoms were strongly indicative of either diabetes or another number of conditions that should be easily recognisable to a trained veterinary professional. I knew my cat was sick, not old. My request for diagnostic testing was flatly refused. I returned a couple of weeks later - when Saoirse was frantic for food and drinking nearly a litre of water a day - and demanded she be tested for diabetes and a number of other conditions. Our new vets (who are very good) couldn't get over how youthful Saoirse looked after a couple of months on insulin and a wet, low carb diet she wasn't allergic to. Our main treating vet told me that if he didn't know Saoirse is 14 from her notes, he would never put anything close to that age on her! So much for the Dx of "old lady"...

Saoirse's is a good news story. Sadly, the stories of my Tara and my Danú didn't have happy endings. Two different vets got it wrong and I lost them. Tara was only six years of age, and Danú only seven. Both of them had curable illnesses.

At present, you have no confirmed diagnosis for the cause of Skinky's swelling. I fervently hope that it is down to infection and that Skinky's medicine and your love and dedicated nursing care will pull her through. As another member commented above, it does have the look of an abscess at the moment (but that's just speculation on my part - I have no medical training).


Carl & Polly said:
I pray the only tears out of your eyes in the days ahead are happy tears.
Click to expand...

And I am praying for the same thing.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
.
 
I agree with Aine and Carl's comments. Whilst remi has never been 'written off' I have been told on more than one occasion that the chances of him recovering was 'guarded'. I am a firm believer that you keep trying until your cat tells you otherwise. With remi he was so very poorly with his pancreatitis/cholanghepatits problem but as funny as it sounds I knew he didn't want to be ill, he so wanted to be better. So we kept trying treatments until we got one that worked. Now I know it's not always going to be that way but you have to hope that it is. I still have hope for skinky.

One of the many things I did learn from the yahoo pancreatitis forum was that ideally you only change one thing at a time. That way you can track how each individual drug or diet change etc is affecting her. I know that in the middle of an ongoing crisis like skinky's that is very hard to do and may be inappropriate but if you aren't already doing so perhaps keep records of each days progress or setbacks, how much she eats and pees, what drugs she had, how much fluid, etc.
 
Marje, I'm with you looks like an abscess. I know this is different but,I had a horse with
cancer in his nasal cavity and it just kept getting bigger. It was hard and never went up and down. It had no discharge. At first we thought it was an abscess but it never came to a head.
Is the swelling hard or does it feel like it has fluid in it? With my horse the vet said to take
a cloth with hot water and apply it to the bump and see if we could bring it to a head and make it break open. Wishing you the best. Peg and Toby
 
@Peg and Toby - Laura did comment earlier in her posts about some of the discharge she managed to drain from the swelling. Her description of it really sounded like what one would expect from an abscess.
 
skinky44 said:
Heart and lungs because of the way she is breathing.
Click to expand...
Laura, Skinky may be breathing the way she is just because the mass is preventing her from breathing through her nose. Mouth breathing takes more effort and makes you a bit more wheezy.

It's great you are seeing an improvement. I know this is incredibly hard for you, but keep up the good fight.
 
Hi Laura,

I have not posted to you before, but I have been following your posts. I just wanted to say that I think you are doing a wonderful job with Skinky. It seems that you have very good instincts when it comes to her care.

I just wanted to add my input to the other good comments that you have received regarding Cerenia vs. Ondansetron. It is commonly said that Ondansetron is an anti-nausea medication (I believe that it is given to humans undergoing chemotherapy) and Cerenia is an anti-emetic, or anti-vomiting drug. I have used both drugs, often at the same time, for my cats with multiple health issues. In my experience, they are both good medications. If you can only easily obtain one of them, and if that one is Cerenia, I would say that it is worth a try if Skinky is feeling too sick to eat well. I am not sure how helpful it would be if the issue is inappetance due to, perhaps, not being able to smell her food well or discomfort in her face, but it may still be worth a try. It also seems to have a slight anti-inflammatory effect, and I have seen many cats do well on it. It seems to me that they often need to have two or three doses before it really starts to show full effect.

As far as appetite stimulants go, it is often recommended that if nausea is present, it should be tackled before an appetite stimulant is given. I think you are the best judge of what is going on with her, and with which meds seem to be helping her. I do very much respect Jill's advice as far as treating the diabetes.

You have many people cheering you on here, even if, like me, we hesitate to add too much clutter to your posts . You are a wonderful Mom to Skinky, and I admire how well you are caring for her very complex health situation.
 
UPDATE:

HI All,

Well it's not the best day. some good things...but. So her eye has blood in it. I took a cotton ball and wiped inside to outside and got a good amount of blood. so sad. I JUST got up. I'm pretty anxious about the eye/blood thing - i've never encountered that before. I mean i'm really conflicted. it doesn't take a genius to figure out the pressure is causing that and on the one hand I"m thinking....this is the sign. On the other hand the little dickens has gotten so much stronger. Damn, is she fighting me with the syringes this morning. and she wants OUT of the sauna. One more slightly encouraging thing...i gave her some "flakes" of the ceph drug that is an app stim. basically i cut it in fours and put the crumbs of 1/4 into her syringe. i did that because she was circling around the water dish. so last night, after i put my water glass on the floor of course, she drank a few licks from it.

Anyhow, the eye thing is really freaking me out. she's in the steam room now. there were a few crusties at the tip of her nose I"m hoping to remove.

as far as the abcess or whatever it is. it feels more spongy than hard. the abcess itself doesn't seem to hurt her. it's the soundring tissue that hurts her, inparticular the tip of her nose. i sometimes have dried blood flakes on his whisker pores too.

she got her flucazole med in, vaseline on tip of nose and in sauna. small syringe of food, but she is very much fighting me regarding that....
 
Last edited:
Laura,
I have a cat that's prone to developing abcesses - just had one earlier this week in one of his legs. When they drain, there's also blood in it. I also had a dog rescued after being attacked by another dog - she developed a huge abcess on her side that looked like a terrible injury, owners weren't going to treat her. I worked with hot compresses until I got it to finally open - there was lots of blood in it also. The abcess is stretching the skin around the pocket which also includes small capillaries which bleed easily. The longer this goes on, the more this seems to be an abcess of some kind.

There was fever in the abcess area but their body temp was still normal.

Thoughts and prayers continue!
 
skinky44 said:
One more slightly encouraging thing...i gave her some "flakes" of the ceph drug that is an app stim. basically i cut it in fours and put the crumbs of 1/4 into her syringe. i did that because she was circling around the water dish. so last night, after i put my water glass on the floor of course, she drank a few licks from it.
Click to expand...

... she got ... her small syringe of food, but she is very much fighting me regarding that....
Click to expand...

Although I didn't syringe-feed Saoirse, I did assist feed her for the best part of a week and it was really tough on both of us. I really feel for you both: it's hard, but it IS worthwhile. I hated having to do it but if I hadn't persevered Saoirse wouldn't be here. Laura, you're doing way better than I did. ((((Laura))))

When I was treating Saoirse for nausea and inappetence I varied the combinations of doses of anti-nausea meds (cerenia injection, then metoclopramide, then ondansetron) and appetite stimulant (cyproheptadine) so that I could determine what she needed and what was helping her. Based solely on weeks of detailed observation of Saoirse's clinical signs I found that there was a much greater reduction in nausea symptoms when I used BOTH an anti-nausea medication AND cyproheptadine together. It was very much a case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. If I gave either of them on their own, she either ate very little or couldn't eat at all.

I investigated the properties of all Saoirse's meds and learned that cyproheptadine blocks receptors responsible for triggering stomach acid production (excess stomach acid being a common cause of nausea). Also, as an antihistamine cyproheptadine has anti-inflammatory properties. In some ways I think the anti-inflammatory and acid-suppressing effects of the cypro were of greater benefit to Saoirse than the appetite stimulation effect. There were times when she she would look for food when taking the anti-nausea med alone, but without the 'beneficial side effects' of the cyproheptadine she'd start lip-licking and give up on the grub. It used to make my heart sink to see her like that - wanting the food but just not being able to eat it. :( (sigh) I only had to give her a tiny amount of cyproheptadine: 1/8 of a 4g tablet or less. Sometimes an even smaller crumb would do the trick. The small doses were enough to get her eating without constantly making her crave food and without making her drowsy. If the 1/4 tablet dose works for Skinky that's great. If you find she gets too drowsy on it, I'd suggest giving slightly less until you find a dose that suits her (helps her eat but doesn't make her groggy).

Granted Saoirse didn't have an abscess so no discomfort around the mouth area, but if Skinky were mine I might try the following:

* Make up a soupy slurry of the a/d food with some water and leave it in a wide dish or on a plate so that Skinky's whiskers don't come into contact with anything (might be sore). Leave some down at all times for Skinky to try to help herself to the food between syringe feeds.

* Give the cerenia and a tiny crumb of cyproheptadine and see if Skinky can get any food down under her own steam between syringe feeds. If she starts taking the food that way, you might be able to gradually reduce the amount of water in the slurry - maybe spread it out on a plate so that she can lick it up without having to chew - so that she fills up on food rather than water, and once she starts eating more on her own, very gradually reduce the amount of syringe feeding until she's back to eating on her own. If she backslides, increase syringe feeding and so forth.

* Watch for the slightest sign of returning nausea (excessive lip-licking after a feed, licking food then walking away, etc.) and use that as a guide to when she needs more help from the meds. Provided it's not too soon to give them again, administer the meds with her next syringe feed. (I'd I'd imagine pilling is impossible at the moment with her little face being so sore. :( ) If too soon, administer the meds with a syringe-fed with the next meal that you give afer the dose is due.

Another 'on the fly' thought. If it is an abscess and it is draining into her nasal cavity the discharge may be draining into her mouth and she may be swallowing some of it. I wonder whether the taste of it might be nasty or that it might be also upsetting her stomach? These are the sort of questions I'd be trying to get answers to if it was Saoirse.

I really feel for you. It must be very scary for you at the moment but hang in there. Skinky has become stronger - such wonderful news! - because of the fantastic nursing job you're doing, and the love with which you're surrounding her.

As always, you're both in my thoughts. Sending more prayers for strength and healing.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top