The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
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The Rock, aka big kitty boy
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Elizabeth and Bertie
Member Since 2010
Hello, and welcome to FDMB.
May I ask why Rock was staying at the vet's. What are the "complications"? Was he admitted with DKA?
Are you testing Rock's pee for ketones at home?
Blood glucose numbers around 400 are very common when diabetics are newly diagnosed.
The general advice regarding insulin is to start at around 1 unit and work up from there, so 2 - 4 units is a high starting dose, especially for a kitty with variable appetite.
Which insulin are you using?
Best wishes,
Eliz
May I ask why Rock was staying at the vet's. What are the "complications"? Was he admitted with DKA?
Are you testing Rock's pee for ketones at home?
Blood glucose numbers around 400 are very common when diabetics are newly diagnosed.
The general advice regarding insulin is to start at around 1 unit and work up from there, so 2 - 4 units is a high starting dose, especially for a kitty with variable appetite.
Which insulin are you using?
Best wishes,
Eliz
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
DKA yes, we are not testing ketones at home. He is on 4 units of novolin n 2x daily. But his liver or pancreas may be too far gone. It is too early to know. He was on an iv drip with a few things in the bag. The vet is only staffed and run 8-5 m-f. I have his blood work papers in case we have to put him down.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Since you are dealing with ketones at home, it will be very helpful in managing him if you can test his glucose in any way.
The best option is an inexpensive human glucometer (ex WalMart ReliOn Confirm) , matching test strips, and alternate site testing lancets. We can coach you through getting tests on him. Meters with Free or Tru/True in the name may not work well for cats.
Urine testing is a rough guide, so getting some KetoDiaStix (or generic) from the pharmacy will help monitor his ketone status and how much glucose is spilling.
My signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools has some info on urine testing and the other assessments you may use to monitor him.
The best option is an inexpensive human glucometer (ex WalMart ReliOn Confirm) , matching test strips, and alternate site testing lancets. We can coach you through getting tests on him. Meters with Free or Tru/True in the name may not work well for cats.
Urine testing is a rough guide, so getting some KetoDiaStix (or generic) from the pharmacy will help monitor his ketone status and how much glucose is spilling.
My signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools has some info on urine testing and the other assessments you may use to monitor him.
Elizabeth and Bertie
Member Since 2010
Oh, sweetie. Poor you.
That must be really tough on you all. But please know that there are other cats here who have come through DKA just fine. So, don't lose hope.
You can monitor ketones at home with Ketodiastix strips or Ketostix (the first measures ketones and glucose, the second measures just ketones). You may also just want to have an awareness of how Rock's breath smells (fruit/peadrops/acetone smell is indicative of ketones).
There's a page of pics and info here about urine testing:
http://www.sugarpet.net/urine.html
If you do feel able to take up BJ's suggestion of hometesting (testing Rock's blood glucose at home) that will really help you to monitor his condition, and to keep him safe from hypoglycemia. (And you may feel much easier about going to sleep!)
Hometesting is quick to do and should not hurt your kitty at all. We can help you learn to do it.
Huge reassuring hug to you,
Eliz
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
Any idea how much the "pee sticks" cost? Are they over the counter? My mom is diabetic, I can do that, no problem.
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The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
Thank you! I am about to offer a lunch at noon. They indicated more importantly than the dieting now is to just get him to eat but not free range. I think I can get a nap once he has some food. Unfortunately we are not as concerned about the blood sugar as we are about him eating and not processing fat in the liver.
phlika29
Member Since 2014
I am sorry you are going through this and very sorry it is happening at the weekend. When my kitty was poorly I used to count the hours down until the vet opened up on Monday.
It is important to get him to eat and also to drink. What food are you giving? Is the rock managing to do both?
It is important to get him to eat and also to drink. What food are you giving? Is the rock managing to do both?
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
Yes I heard him drinking in the middle of the night. I am giving him various wet foods moistened with more water. He is actually eating, but I will force feed a/d critical care to him. In 2 days he has had 2 cans do a/d at the vet Thursday and Friday. Thursday night he only licked gravy off the top of the wet food, nothing at home on Friday morning so I rushed him back. They gave him a 3 day appetite stimulant before we left Friday and he ate about 1/3 of a can. This morning he was up with us and meowing for food. He ate 3/4 of a can and got his morning shot at 7am. One more hour and I will let him eat some lunch, he is making a funny meow while purring noise every now and again. After breakfast he was quite chipper and purring while kneading to bed down for a morning nap. I am just freaking out I gave him too much insulin. The vet said if he eats 1/4 of a can only 2 units, 1/2 or more 4 units. He is a fat boy and the variety of wet foods are ones we have had on hand as his "treats" prior to being diagnosed.
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
BJM
Member Since 2010
You're very welcome.
An important note on Novalin: it may last only 6-8 hours in the cat. Since you are dealing with ketones, you need as much insulin coverage as possible throughout the day. Can you possibly give it every 8 hours? I know that can be a tough schedule, but combined with the glucose testing, it will improve your chances for a good outcome.
An important note on Novalin: it may last only 6-8 hours in the cat. Since you are dealing with ketones, you need as much insulin coverage as possible throughout the day. Can you possibly give it every 8 hours? I know that can be a tough schedule, but combined with the glucose testing, it will improve your chances for a good outcome.
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
I can, I have no good sleep schedule, and I am willing to do it. Today is just the first day of treatment at home, we are waiting to see if he makes it through the weekend. I can bring this new info to he vet and suggest it be a 3x daily occurrence. If it helps kitty boy I will wake up every hour! I know it is not the best kind of insulin to have him on but we cannot afford prices of "the good stuff." My hubby gets up at 6:30 for work and we rarely go to bed before 10:30 so we could easily to every 8 hours!
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
Your blog is a nice touch, just read the first page. I knew it was treatable because my husband used to tell me of stories of one of his friends from back home who had to "share" his insulin with his cat.
phlika29
Member Since 2014
It sounds like you are one dedicated moma and that will go along way in helping your Rock. If you are still struggling with nausea on Monday I would ask the vet to prescribe ondansetron. It can really help with the eating but so can getting fluids into them. You can syringe water into a cats mouth if you do it carefully and slowly aiming the water from one side to the other. Have you got a 5 ml syringe that you could use? If you do this a few times a day This will help flush out ketones and aid with any nausea.
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
I was cautious at first on doing it with water, but it is quite easy. I have a pipetter tip to go on the syringe. I just do tiny amounts of water in the corner of his mouth and he accepts it. I think he knows he is really sick and is allowing me to do all this stuff to him. I do not know the signs of nausea for cats but he did not eat Wednesday and ate minimally on Tuesday. Thursday and Friday he was good eating while at the vet. But when he came home Thursday night he refused food that night and Friday morning. So far he is resting, I hope our 6:30 feed goes as well as the previous ones!
phlika29
Member Since 2014
That's great news. Just keep doing small amounts often. Maybe not too close to feeding time as you don't want to fill him up with water but otherwise just keep going. I do it the same way. Just tiny drops at the corner if the mouth and they soon lap it up. When remi was poorly I would aim to get 30 or 40 ml into him each day. With sub q the amount is up to 100 ml per day but ofcourse that isn't going into the tummy.
Nausea can show up as lip licking, teeth grinding, hungry but walking away from food, licking food but no more and probably a few more things that escape my mind. It is important to get some food into rocky in whatever way you can (and then you can give some insulin) I think you've already said you will water down and syringe food into him.
Nausea can show up as lip licking, teeth grinding, hungry but walking away from food, licking food but no more and probably a few more things that escape my mind. It is important to get some food into rocky in whatever way you can (and then you can give some insulin) I think you've already said you will water down and syringe food into him.
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
I have been giving him between 5-8mL of water every 45 min. Though sometimes he does not get most of it in him. We had a bad feed tonight, barely got 1/4 of a can with force feeding! Therefore I only gave 2 units of insulin, per vet recommendation. He does show the symptom of just licking food and walking away sometimes, but he has kept all food down so far! We are convinced his ear skin is less orange/yellow.
phlika29
Member Since 2014
That's good about the water. Perhaps don't do it for an hour before he eats. You don't wasn't his tummy to be full of water. It sounds like he has some nausea and so I would ask for ondansetron if he is not throwing up. This may help him eat more.
What were the complications for the rock. Why did the vet say he was jaundiced? Did he mention a problem with his liver or pancreas? Did they test for that and if so what tablets was he prescribed. The jaundice could be related to the diabetes or could be a separate liver issue. My cat had cholangihepatitis and became very jaundiced and was prescribed an antibiotic for a number of weeks. This helped him feel better pretty quickly.
What were the complications for the rock. Why did the vet say he was jaundiced? Did he mention a problem with his liver or pancreas? Did they test for that and if so what tablets was he prescribed. The jaundice could be related to the diabetes or could be a separate liver issue. My cat had cholangihepatitis and became very jaundiced and was prescribed an antibiotic for a number of weeks. This helped him feel better pretty quickly.
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
They were not 100% sure but if he was not eating and vomiting they suspected liver failure or pancreatic cancer. He is so normal after a feed and shot, I cannot believe it. Nothing was tested further no drugs for theses organs. They did not think he would survive the weekend. But he is eating, though the appetite stimulant they gave does seem to be diminishing as the weekend progresses. I will bring him in on Monday since he is still improving throughout the hours! 25 hours until the vet is open again, 37.5 hours of doing ok....if he is well enough we will be digging deeper and see what is going on. I force fed a little this morning but he ate more than last night.
phlika29
Member Since 2014
You are doing really well. I could see if remi was jaundiced the easiest by looking at the whites of his eye. It was quite yellow at one point when he had his cholanghepatits. I do think it is worth exploring the reason for the jaundice.
If you could afford it you might like to discuss doing a blood screen to check for his liver and kidney values. A spec fPL test would give you an idea about what his pancreas is up to but in the UK it is one of the more expensive tests as it has to be sent away as it was developed by IDEXX laboratory. I always an open with my vet about how to get the best out of tests, medication from a money point of view and when I have had tests I have asked what range of tests would give me the fullest results for the least amount of money. I have found that depending on how they clump them together the price ranges a fair bit.
I would certainly discuss having an ongoing anti nausea medication that you can give at home. I wonder whether they gave your cat a cerenia injection which is great at preventing vomiting and there is also a medication that is a tablet ondansetron which is good for stopping nausea and thus encouraging them to eat.
If you could afford it you might like to discuss doing a blood screen to check for his liver and kidney values. A spec fPL test would give you an idea about what his pancreas is up to but in the UK it is one of the more expensive tests as it has to be sent away as it was developed by IDEXX laboratory. I always an open with my vet about how to get the best out of tests, medication from a money point of view and when I have had tests I have asked what range of tests would give me the fullest results for the least amount of money. I have found that depending on how they clump them together the price ranges a fair bit.
I would certainly discuss having an ongoing anti nausea medication that you can give at home. I wonder whether they gave your cat a cerenia injection which is great at preventing vomiting and there is also a medication that is a tablet ondansetron which is good for stopping nausea and thus encouraging them to eat.
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
I did a blood panel first thing in the door. I have the sheets, any value in particular on there? He was orange at one point, but yellow now. I notice it best in his lips and ears. He does not hate me nor run away when I come with the water or food syringe. He just, sometimes reluctantly, takes it. He has been purring and kneading so much lately. I am tired, I think this is similar to parenthood, no sleep and full of concern. Taking it 45 min at a time.
phlika29
Member Since 2014
Okay I am not an expert but if you could post up a picture of the test results (making sure any personal details are blanked out) then maybe people can help. Or just list them out.
The liver values are the ALK and ALT
ALB-albumin-protein that indicates general health
Globulin-protein that indicates general health.
Bilirubin-liver and gall bladder issues -raised if jaundiced
The kidneys are urea, creatinine, BUN
Pancreas is spec fPL
It is often the interplay between the different results that give an idea as to what might be happening so the more info the better.
It is great that you are getting water, fluid and insulin into the rock. Hopefully the jaundice is lessening but still a good idea to follow it up next week if you can. There are lots of options for treatment but need to narrow down the cause if not related to his diabetes.
When you do post them it might be an idea to do so in a new thread with a title that directly asks for help interpreting test results. Or alternatively you could go back to your first post here and press the edit button and amend the title to say the same sort of thing.
The liver values are the ALK and ALT
ALB-albumin-protein that indicates general health
Globulin-protein that indicates general health.
Bilirubin-liver and gall bladder issues -raised if jaundiced
The kidneys are urea, creatinine, BUN
Pancreas is spec fPL
It is often the interplay between the different results that give an idea as to what might be happening so the more info the better.
It is great that you are getting water, fluid and insulin into the rock. Hopefully the jaundice is lessening but still a good idea to follow it up next week if you can. There are lots of options for treatment but need to narrow down the cause if not related to his diabetes.
When you do post them it might be an idea to do so in a new thread with a title that directly asks for help interpreting test results. Or alternatively you could go back to your first post here and press the edit button and amend the title to say the same sort of thing.
phlika29
Member Since 2014
I see that you have posted the results and have got a fair few parameters that are out of the norm. I am going to start a new thread for you in the main forum specifically about this as I had forgotten that this thread is in the newbie section. That way you will get more eyes on it
Will link it back to here in a second.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...lp-interpreting-test-results-jaundice.131648/
Will link it back to here in a second.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...lp-interpreting-test-results-jaundice.131648/
The Rock momma's boy
Member Since 2015
Thank you, I think I am getting the hang of how FDMB works. Rock is getting comfy in many places around the house again, changing positions and even taking mild interest and batting at toys!
. You are doing a fantastic job. I have replied to the other thread ask well.- Status