7/13 Alex AM 88 Two Sick Cats :(

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Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)

Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)

Member Since 2009
Yeah that's right. Jackson has a bad stomach also now. Much to my dismay (I won't say shock because this will be the third time they have gotten what my vet calls an intestinal virus at the exact same time)I woke up to see that Jackson had diarrhea and I figured it was from too much Miralax. Alex had some more diarrhea also. I cleaned out the pans and went back to bed for an hour and woke up to more from Jackson. Then looked at the floor and saw that he had vomited as well. And he wasn't very happy looking either. I was about to call vet to tell him when the phone rang and it was him telling me that Alex's blood was basically better than it's been in a year. He didn't do the specific test for Pancreatitis but will if this happens again and said that another test in the chemscreen he did(I forget which one)would have been more than likely elevated if it was that. He won't rule out the BAD thing until Alex stops having diarrhea though and THAT is freaking me out.
When I told him about Jackson he first said "are you kidding me, again"? and then thought maybe I had a bad batch of food, but Alex really hasn't eaten much since I got home from PetSmart Saturday afternoon and Jackson has eaten a lot and only threw up today.

So now Jackson is on the Centrine and Flagyl that was originally given to Alex and Alex is on Reglan and Orbax and fluids and and heart meds and they're both on tapezole and neither is on food (although I'm trying to get Alex to eat small amounts but he doesn't want any). He doesn't want anything. Last night I cut his insulin back to 1.5 units from 3 and he went down to 64 this morning. I didn't have to HC him but I don't know what to do with his next dose. I guess maybe keep it at 1.5 if he's still not eating. I hear that fortiflora works well for diarrhea and to stimulate appetite but my vet doesn't have it and no stores around here seem to have it either...Liv-a-littles aren't cutting it these past few days. sigh :YMSIGH:

sorry to babble but I am crazy tired now.

yesterday
 
ohmygod_smile sorry for the mess this morning and what a bummer they are both sick together :YMSIGH:
Hang in there, take a nap if you can :lol:
Sending you feel better vines today for the kidz and hugs to you :smile:
 
sorry to hear about both kitties not feeling well ... but they know they are in good hands and you will get them back to better in no time!
 
If it's a virus, or even a bacterial infection, they could be infecting each other. (Kinda like a family passing a cold or flu around.) If this is the case, it's probably not p'titis.

Your vet raised a reasonable point about the food. You might want to Google cat food recalls and see if what you're feeding may have been recalled. (I think it's unlikely but there are many times when a small scale recall flies under the radar.)
 
You also might want to get a good human or animal probiotic to try to normalize their digestive tracts... All that diarrhea and A/B really destroy the balance in the gut... I wouldn't necessarily rely on the Fortiflora for repopulating their good bacteria - I think it's only 1 type of bacteria... Sienne recommended 1/3 capsule Renew Ultimate Critical Care to me and I use it daily, but especially when on A/B. You can google it - any health food store type place should have good probiotic options and you can use them on the kitties as well.
 
Can you try calling other vets in the area to see if they sell Fortifora?
(((Caryl & Alex & Jackson))). I hope your boys feel better, soon.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
If it's a virus, or even a bacterial infection, they could be infecting each other. (Kinda like a family passing a cold or flu around.) If this is the case, it's probably not p'titis.

Your vet raised a reasonable point about the food. You might want to Google cat food recalls and see if what you're feeding may have been recalled. (I think it's unlikely but there are many times when a small scale recall flies under the radar.)
Click to expand...

For the last three years they have gotten this stomach thing together and no one has ever heard of this except for you, my vet, and of course me. I have read numerous articles that state that stomach viruses could exist between cats but it would be unlikely with indoor cats. Well...3 times it has happened with my cats !
it might be rare but it's awfully coincidental that they get sick like this together. Jackson didn't have a random pukus. He is lying on the rug next to me now like mr. gloomy pants and hasn't wanted food today either. he's sick too. I doubt that he's evolved enough to have sympathy pains with the same symptoms as his brother(rant over..lol)

My stomach is starting to feel queasy..I wonder if..naaaah :roll:

I'm just feeding the FF classics low carb, ff appetizers and some Sophisticat low carb for snacks...all I see on recall is Iams Proactive and Feline Pride.
 
Hillary had some Fortiflora, I think! Is she driving distance from you?

Something they've had three times and recovered from isn't the worst diagnosis...unless you're right in the middle of it, with diarrhea, vomiting, not eating, etc.

Remember to keep your own strength up. Someone needs a milkshake. Seriously.

Hugs hugs hugs!
 
Caryl and Alex said:
My stomach is starting to feel queasy..I wonder if..naaaah :roll:
Click to expand...
You have a carbon monoxcide (or however you spell it) detector right? Just a thought.
 
Well, whenever I see Kasha looking queasy, it makes me feel a little queasy too. Especially if I'm cleaning vomit and LB!!!
 
I'm sorry :( I hope they both feel better very soon. We went through this a month or two ago, Napoleon and Bella(my civvie) both had a stomach bug and took turns puking. It was nasty. Stomach bugs don't last long in humans, so hopefully it will be over quickly for your babes. Take care.
 
I have had stomach virus's here on a kinda regular basis I feel like its brought home from a cat shows or maybe even on me from work at the clinic :?: but it can move thru my house if I am not careful my cats do not live altogether so I am lucky not everyone has ever been infected but 2 years ago I had a terrible virus hit at the same time a ice storm knocked out our power for 10 days in a cold Jan not fun so be treating I think it was 6-7 of my cats and trying to keep them warm etc.. I know I am babbling sending healing vines to both of your babies and sure hope things improve for you I agree about the probiotic to try and get something for them it should help ((((HUGS)))) for support hope you can get some rest
 
Carly, have you tried an appy stimulant, like mirtazapine or cyproheptadine?
I loved the mirtazapine -- you give it once every three days.
 
D and Noisy said:
Carly, have you tried an appy stimulant, like mirtazapine or cyproheptadine?
I loved the mirtazapine -- you give it once every three days.
Click to expand...

I can't get my hands on any my vet doesn't believe in it. I'm about to put my fist through the wall. I have tried everything I have to get Alex to eat. he doesn't want anything.
 
I did have fortiflora and I sent it to Andrew & Mim last year and the stupid Aussie's flagged and tossed it out. So, it's gone.

Do you have a vitamin shop local? See if they have Pet Dophilus by Jarrow. Need to keep in fridge, but that may help. I've got an extra bottle if you want to drive down....or not.
 
Sweety, Tell that vet to write you a prescription for mirtz. You can fill at any pharmacy.
If I had some here I would drive it to you.
 
Hang in there, Caryl! Stomach viruses are awful, but they clear up pretty fast. I don't blame the kitties for not wanting to eat. People with stomach viruses don't want to eat either. Stu would like to make your boys some chicken broth. He'll bring it over later. Try plain, Greek-style yogurt to add the good bacteria to their digestive tracks.
Sending bouquets of healing vines to your guys.

Ella & Stu
 
It is an appetite stimulant. Many people here have used it. I don't know of any side effects -- Meowzi's mom CF would probably be able to give you the most detail. I will PM her and ask her to stop in here.

We affectionately call it the happy pill. When Noisy was on it he would become extremely affectionate and more importantly hungry. Literally, 20 minutes after he would take his pill he would be eating with gusto, that after not being able to get him to eat anything. Noisy remained very calm with it -- after eating he would take a nap. I'm going to go PM CF. She also might be very good at helping with what is going on with Alex.

I see Ella & Stu's post before I post this and they have a good point about the why of not wanting to eat. The milder foods would be great and the appy stimulant might make it easier for you to get something in him. I get scared when cats don't eat. Hugs.
 
Mirtazapine

Side Effects

The most common side effect of this medication is drowsiness.

Mirtazapine decreases cortisol secretion by the adrenal glands but has not actually panned out as a treatment for Cushing's syndrome, where excess adrenal steroids are produced by the adrenal glands.

Serotonin syndrome is a potential side effect should brain levels of serotonin get too high, but this syndrome generally requires a combination of serotonin-increasing medications. Elevated heart rate, tremors/shivering, dilated pupils, difficulty breathing, elevated body temperature, or high blood pressure can all be signs of serotonin syndrome. Animals with serotonin syndrome sometimes demonstrate general hyperactivity. If there is any question that serotonin syndrome is occurring, cyproheptadine can be used as an antidote.
 
Caryl and Alex said:
D and Noisy said:
Carly, have you tried an appy stimulant, like mirtazapine or cyproheptadine?
I loved the mirtazapine -- you give it once every three days.
Click to expand...

I can't get my hands on any my vet doesn't believe in it. I'm about to put my fist through the wall. I have tried everything I have to get Alex to eat. he doesn't want anything.
Click to expand...

(((caryl)))
i'm sorry to hear both boys are sick! when all else fails, a little bit of parmesan cheese sprinkled on warmed food will interest mine. i don't know if you've tried it yet.

my vet will not prescribe appetite stimulants unless it's an absolute last resort. i was kind of irritated about it when i was having such a hard time getting my alex to eat until i asked him why. he explained that appy stimulants are pretty hard on the liver so he didn't want to reach for them unless it was absolutely necessary to get a cat to eat. he has since prescribed both for alex, but i use them sparingly.

here's some info (including side effects) on appy stimulants:
Cyproheptadine (Periactin): http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm#cyproheptadine
Mirtazapine: http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat ... irtazapine (note: Mirtazapine must be used with caution in anyone with renal problems. It should also be used with caution in cats with hyperthyroidism or liver problems.)

hope alex and jackson feel better soon!
 
i love mirtz but yes it can make some cats overly stimulated and meowy. it can be bad in some cats but mostly i've heard of a good response. i wouldn't give it right before bed, tho, coz cleo would drive me nuts meowing at me while i was trying to sleep.

fortiflora -- good seller on ebay pazgroupinc i think. check fortiflora on eBay and see who pops up. you can always ask them to expedite shipment. otherwise how about culturelle. it's yogurt based so it could tempt the appetite while helping with the diarrhea. your local pharmacy should have it, like walgreens. call around. honestly, flagyl has worked the best for me with kitty diarrhea.

sorry you're going thru this, caryl. i have 2 sick kitties myself and it is so much work and heartbreaking.
 
My thoughts are with you. I hope Alex and Jackson will start to improve soon.

I wish I could help. My only comment would be ... plain yogurt for the diarrhea since you don't have that other stuff; Forti flora. Perhaps it can help a little bit... at least it's available at a normal grocery store.

(((Caryl)))
 
Thanks so much for all of the good advice everyone. I'm not sure why my vet doesn't like appetite stimulants. I think for Alex it has something to do with the fact that he has enough going on that he doesn't need anything else to add to the mix. I THINK that's why he would rather I don't use any..but he said he doesn't believe in them in general so who knows....he would rather I don't use probiotics also but well..they work for Alex and esp Culturelle. I can't imagine it hurting him.

I just got back from the vet with Jackson and it's officially the same thing as his brother...he has a fever of 103.4 and he is just like Alex was yesterday, only fatter. He had his fluids and he is now on Orbax also. He's not hungry, Alex isn't hungry. Jackson is sleeping in the hall near the bathroom. Alex is sleeping under the TV in the living room (actually he's grooming himself right now) and I think I'm going to wash my hair now. It's the first time I've had a chance since Saturday..ewwwwwwww :oops:

Jill the parmesan thing sounds great..maybe I'll try it for ME (just kidding). My kitchen is hilarious..and sad at the same time. I have so many cans of food open with no one to eat them Everything I've been trying to tempt Alex with will be wasted unless he comes around by tomorrow. At least I can eat the tuna.
 
One other thought...

It's expensive, but you might want to ask your vet about getting a fecal culture. It's possible that there is some bacteria that one of your guys is harboring. When it gets to some critical mass, one of them gets sick -- probably Alex because his immune system may be a bit weaker due to the FD and his other medical stuff -- and then "shares." You need to get a very fresh sample to the vet in order for the culture to be done. (I believe Idexx runs them.)
 
Caryl - sounds like you have your hands full with those sick boys! Sure hope this virus passes safely & quickly. You are taking such good care of them, no wonder they love you so much!

Take care,
Susan & Lanky
 
sehjak (Susan & Lanky) said:
Caryl - sounds like you have your hands full with those sick boys! Sure hope this virus passes safely & quickly. You are taking such good care of them, no wonder they love you so much!

Take care,
Susan & Lanky
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Thanks so much but right now I think Jackson hates me. he is really miserable tonight. He keeps straining to try to have a bowel movement and there's nothing in him and now he's bloody. :( This is setting off a chain reaction n his gut and makes him start to wretch so the reglan isn't working and I can't even try to get AB down him. He's actually moaning. :cry:
 
Caryl and Alex said:
Thanks so much but right now I think Jackson hates me. he is really miserable tonight. He keeps straining to try to have a bowel movement and there's nothing in him and now he's bloody. :( This is setting off a chain reaction n his gut and makes him start to wretch so the reglan isn't working and I can't even try to get AB down him. He's actually moaning. :cry:
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Oh no! I'm so sorry Caryl. What a tough situation for all of you. :sad:
 
Hi Caryl, just getting around to dropping in condos today and I see that things are not going well in your home. So sorry both your boys aren't feeling well. I don't have anything to add to what has been said, it seems like it's all been covered. HOWEVER...I can give you some hugs and wishes that everything goes back to normal real soon.
 
Hi Caryl. I haven't been on the board for yesterday and today. So sorry that both your boys are feeling so sick. Poor babies. I know that you must be so stressed right now. I know that you're doing everything you can for them. Sending many prayers and a blizzard of snowflakes that they soon start to feel better.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
One other thought...

It's expensive, but you might want to ask your vet about getting a fecal culture. It's possible that there is some bacteria that one of your guys is harboring. When it gets to some critical mass, one of them gets sick -- probably Alex because his immune system may be a bit weaker due to the FD and his other medical stuff -- and then "shares." You need to get a very fresh sample to the vet in order for the culture to be done. (I believe Idexx runs them.)
Click to expand...

Thanks Cheryl,
I'll ask him about that :)
 
Barb and Tori said:
Hi Caryl. I haven't been on the board for yesterday and today. So sorry that both your boys are feeling so sick. Poor babies. I know that you must be so stressed right now. I know that you're doing everything you can for them. Sending many prayers and a blizzard of snowflakes that they soon start to feel better.
Click to expand...
Aww thanks Barb..I hadn't been on for a while either but for 2 days I've been home with them. Thanks so much for your good wishes.
How's Tori girl?
 
CD and BigMac said:
My thoughts are with you. I hope Alex and Jackson will start to improve soon.

I wish I could help. My only comment would be ... plain yogurt for the diarrhea since you don't have that other stuff; Forti flora. Perhaps it can help a little bit... at least it's available at a normal grocery store.

(((Caryl)))
Click to expand...

You're helping :)
 
A good thing for basic over-all stomach/digestive health is ProBiotics. Natren makes a good one with measured doses!

http://store.natren.com/Merchant2/m...Screen=PROD&Product_Code=14020&Category_Code=

It's a good way to help stop the diarrhea and get his immune system up, so you'll be doing two things to help. Also, if you cannot purchase this item I suggest getting yourself to a Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Sprouts or some kind of Health Food store and purchase a bottle of probiotics for kitty! This is also a good maintenance for them for every day.

If kitty is on Anti-Biotics then please wait at least 8-12 hours before administering the pro-biotics because you'll kill them all off!

Hope this helps, and I hope kitty gets better soon.
 
Yes - with the probiotics, you can use a human probiotic, which are now available in health stores and a lot of grocery stores, drug stores, etc. Just look for one with a lot of different varieties of good bacteria (there should be a list of all that are contained on the box or bottle). Some varieties need to be refrigerated. If you look at a lot of the animal probiotics, you will see that most of them have similar if not the same strains as a lot of the human versions... alternatively - or additionally - use the Greek yogurt (plain). It won't have as reliable as dose of probiotics (will depend on how old it is and how it's been handled) but many kitties like it.
 
Jill & Alex said:
Caryl and Alex said:
D and Noisy said:
Carly, have you tried an appy stimulant, like mirtazapine or cyproheptadine?
I loved the mirtazapine -- you give it once every three days.
Click to expand...

I can't get my hands on any my vet doesn't believe in it. I'm about to put my fist through the wall. I have tried everything I have to get Alex to eat. he doesn't want anything.
Click to expand...

(((caryl)))
i'm sorry to hear both boys are sick! when all else fails, a little bit of parmesan cheese sprinkled on warmed food will interest mine. i don't know if you've tried it yet.

my vet will not prescribe appetite stimulants unless it's an absolute last resort. i was kind of irritated about it when i was having such a hard time getting my alex to eat until i asked him why. he explained that appy stimulants are pretty hard on the liver so he didn't want to reach for them unless it was absolutely necessary to get a cat to eat. he has since prescribed both for alex, but i use them sparingly.

here's some info (including side effects) on appy stimulants:
Cyproheptadine (Periactin): http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm#cyproheptadine
Mirtazapine: http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat ... irtazapine (note: Mirtazapine must be used with caution in anyone with renal problems. It should also be used with caution in cats with hyperthyroidism or liver problems.)

hope alex and jackson feel better soon!
Click to expand...



As my grandmother would have said.."OY"..lol

My vet said to show him the print out re: appy stimulants..
this will never fly.
Alex has hyper-t and is on medication to decrease his heart rate.(HCM)
These side effects will certainly not win him over for Alex but thanks anyway :) It would have been swell if they did ♥
 
Yea, I was going to come in today and say I shouldn't have written what I did. I do not know all of Alex's issues and it was irresponsible of me to write it the way I did. I think appy stimulants are fantastic, given under the right conditions. Sorry I did not write what I wrote better, particularly in covering the bases.
I believe I let a knee jerk reaction to, vet not believing in them, get in the way of my thinking.
Hope things are better today Carly. We have another round of support if you need it.
 
Sorry to hear you have 2 sick kitties. I hope they are feeling better soon. I know exactly what you mean about having a kitchen full of open cans of cat food... The only good thing at my house is that I have a cat somewhere that will eat it (because I have 10 foster cats right now).
My Jake is not eating and I've been syringe feeding him A/D. Yesterday the vet prescribed him some Clinicare which is a liquid nutritional supplement. I believe that is what made his BG go through the roof. So, I know what a challenge it is to get them to eat and I wish you all the best.
Sending lots of snowflakes and healing vines your way.
 
stopping in because d & noisy pm'ed me to take a look. i'm writing this in general - i don't know if alex is eating less than his regular intake, or is outright refusing food for longer than a day or two.

here's some info (including side effects) on appy stimulants:
Cyproheptadine (Periactin): http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat ... oheptadine
Mirtazapine: http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat ... irtazapine (note: Mirtazapine must be used with caution in anyone with renal problems. It should also be used with caution in cats with hyperthyroidism or liver problems.)
Click to expand...
i can't disagree with that info, as that warning is included in the sites i've looked at. there are several CKD kitties on mirtazapine in the yahoo CRF support group, while others in the group are adamantly against its use and have expressed a preference for cyproheptadine.

your vet can look up its use and cautions on VIN if he's interested; he'll be seeing input from his peers, not lay ppl, which most of us are.

also, and this is more an fyi for others who read this, as alex does not have CKD - there is an study being conducted by CSU's Dr Lunn (well-known to and much-beloved by the acro kitties and their beans) on mirtazapine as an appetite stimulant for cats with CKD. This study is sponsored by the Winn Feline Foundation: http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/Pages/H ... S_2008.pdf afaik the study is still in progress:
Chronic kidney disease is common in geriatric cats. Clinical signs include increased drinking and urination, decreased appetite, weight loss and vomiting. Decreased appetite can lead to weight loss, muscle weakness, and poor quality of life. Several studies have documented the value of specially formulated diets in the management of kidney disease. Therefore it is important for these patients to maintain their appetite and food intake. Mirtazapine (Remeron®) was introduced to human medicine as an antidepressant; however it has attracted interest in veterinary medicine because of several desirable side-effects, namely its significant anti-nausea, antivomiting, and appetite stimulating properties. Mirtazapine doses for cats have been adapted from human medicine; however no studies on how the drug is processed in the body of cats have been performed to verify this information. In order to provide accurate dosing recommendations for best effect and to avoid side-effects, it is necessary to investigate how the drug is processed in cats. The expected outcome of this study will be an understanding of the best dose and frequency of administration of mirtazapine to young and old cats, and cats with kidney disease. The study will also document how well the drug works as an appetite stimulant and anti-emetic in cats with kidney disease. The results of these studies will allow veterinarians to improve the quality of life of cats with chronic kidney disease.

if your vet is interested in contacting Dr Lunn to learn more about the drug (while her focus is CKD, she may be able to offer insight on its use with hyper-t kitties), the high-dose peeps will have her contact info - check with Joan/Maddie, Heather/Boo, Wendi/Milo or maybe even Carolyn/Spot.

w.r.t. mirtazapine and liver problems, i would consider hepatic lipidosis is a liver problem. vets do give mirtazapine to HL kitties to stimulate their appetites. i'm pretty sure cosmo was on mirtz when he had HL. and cleo has been (is still?) on it despite having (non-mirtz related, afaik) elevated liver values at one point.

i'm not advocating for or against the use of mirtz for alex. you and your vet will have to do the research and weigh the pros and cons for yourselves. my own take on it: find out the source of his inappetance. there's no such thing as a quick and easy fix; almost all drugs come with consequences. mirtazapine is a good drug, imo, but that doesn't mean one should reach for it at the very first sign on inappetance without investigating the cause, and risk missing something more serious by masking the symptom.

btw if you struggle with feeding him over a longer period, you may also want to join feline assisted feeding group.
 
Angels & Prayers coming to your house for your two sisk boys and for you too. It is so hard to deal with when our babies are sick I send you some Peace time too they will get better and you are doing all you can..Bless you Angels do you stuff lots of GREEN light surrounding your babies LOL Kath :mrgreen:
 
((((((((Caryl, Alex, and Jackson)))))))

Sorry you've got so much sickness going on in your house Caryl! I have nothing in the way of help, but I certainly feel for you. I hope things begin to improve soon, and that maybe you can get some rest!
 
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