Zeus AMPS 356, dosing & food question & vet advice

[knolet]

I sent Zeus' spreadsheet to his Vet for advice on dosing. He's had a couple of mornings or evenings that I've skipped shots because it was below 200. The Vet is saying that it's OK to shoot if the BG is between 60-120 as long as I'm feeding him right afterwards. I do feed Zeus 4X, usually right after I test before his shots AM & PM, and then leave frozen food out to nibble, both AM & PM (which he usually eats about 3 hours after his other meals). The Vet also said not to test mid-day since I'm leaving the frozen food out, he says it's messing with the mid-day numbers and that Zeus obviously needs the insulin, so I shouldn't skip the shot.

I know that the food will spike his BG, but how much and how long does it affect it? I thought as long as I didn't feed 2 hours before the testing it should be OK. Is it OK to shoot at 120 or below as long as he eats? I won't be around to check on him as I work, but I do come home mid-day for lunch. I'm afraid to find Zeus passed out somewhere.

Any advice?

 

[MommaOfMuse]

The problem I have with telling you to go ahead and shoot a lower preshot is that you have no test on his pm cycle, so we have no clue how low he goes at night and a lot of cats go lower at night. Food does mess with the numbers if it is before 2 hours before a test, but most of our cats have eaten by the time we get mid-cycle test especially on the days we run curves, so that shouldn't be that much of a problem.

What would help to decide if you can lower your no shoot number would be to get a curve run on your day off that way you would have a clearer idea of just how low the dose takes him, and how much food does or does not raise him. Some cats spike really high right after they eat others don't so that is valuable data to have.

Ideally you are looking for a dose that allows you to shoot twice a day, that keeps them in normal numbers all day long, but that can be tricky to do without at least a few curves thrown in. Many of us do shoot into what would seem to be normal numbers but we got there with lots of data from testing and we know exactly how much and how fast a dose will drop their BGs.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[knolet]

So when you say a curve - do you mean an overnight curve? And it's usually every 2 hours for a 12 hour period, right? I did one curve a couple of weeks ago - maybe 3 weeks, and then kind of a mini curve (+6, +8, +10 and +12) a few days ago, but they were both during the day. How often do you do curves? I'm sorry, I feel like such an idiot! I feel so badly for Zeus that I can't get this figured out. When I think I understand, I read something else and have more questions.

The good news is that Zeus acts fine, eats good, normal water consumption, uses the litter box etc. and he still comes to me for attention.... so I guess he still loves me :smile:

 

[MommaOfMuse]

No a curve can be either during the day or night depending on you schedule...but it would be good to get what I like to call a "lights out test" or one right before you head off to bed for the night...If you look at Autumn's spreadsheet you will see I usually get a +3 -+4 test on her in the evening so I can see if she handles the evening dose differently than she handles the am dose.

You are probably good to go to shoot at a lower than 200 number but if it were me the first time I did it I think I would want to be around to test or I wouldn't lower that no shoot number by much, say for now lower it to 175, if that seems to work well for Zeus then bring it down to 150 etc. I just tend to be a little nervous about shooting lower numbers on days that I can't be around to monitor, well that and I have a small herd of cats so can't always be sure that the food left out for my insulin dependednt diabetic will be available to her if needed for a too low of a number...as a couple of her adopted siblings are little furry piglets..lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[BJM]

Normally we do a curve for 12 hours and usually during the day, but it may be helpful to continue checking a few more times until you head for bed.

And if you ever happen to wake up in the middle of the night and be up for it, snag a test. Some folks even set an alarm to do this and check during the approximate nadir period.

 

[BJM]

...The Vet is saying that it's OK to shoot if the BG is between 60-120 as long as I'm feeding him right afterwards.

EEPS - test, feed, THEN shoot. I wouldn't shoot without being sure food was on board, because there can be a day you shoot ... and the cat doesn't eat. Presto, HYPO!

 

[knolet]

...The Vet is saying that it's OK to shoot if the BG is between 60-120 as long as I'm feeding him right afterwards.

EEPS - test, feed, THEN shoot. I wouldn't shoot without being sure food was on board, because there can be a day you shoot ... and the cat doesn't eat. Presto, HYPO!

Agreed :smile: I test, feed and then shoot. The Vet has always said to shoot and then feed, but I told him I do it the other way around. I tried to shoot while he ate, but that only happened once as Zeus didn't like it and stopped eating.

 

[knolet]

No a curve can be either during the day or night depending on you schedule...but it would be good to get what I like to call a "lights out test" or one right before you head off to bed for the night...If you look at Autumn's spreadsheet you will see I usually get a +3 -+4 test on her in the evening so I can see if she handles the evening dose differently than she handles the am dose.

You are probably good to go to shoot at a lower than 200 number but if it were me the first time I did it I think I would want to be around to test or I wouldn't lower that no shoot number by much, say for now lower it to 175, if that seems to work well for Zeus then bring it down to 150 etc. I just tend to be a little nervous about shooting lower numbers on days that I can't be around to monitor, well that and I have a small herd of cats so can't always be sure that the food left out for my insulin dependednt diabetic will be available to her if needed for a too low of a number...as a couple of her adopted siblings are little furry piglets..lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

Thanks for the advice. At PMPS Zeus was 202, I shot 1.25U and then I tested at +3, it was up to 293. He had his 4th meal shortly after that test, so I'm sure it went up again. Zeus was really not happy with an evening test... and I wasn't very graceful either. First poke - got enough blood, went to transfer it to the back of my nail and wiped it on the tissue instead. Second poke - got enough blood, Zeus shook his head and spots landed on my tshirt. Third poke - I promised that was it, and it worked. Thank goodness. He's hiding right now, poor baby :smile: