Wynken after dose reduction

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Cara and Wynken (GA)

Cara and Wynken (GA)

Member Since 2012
I wonder if there are any conclusions to draw from the data over the last day and a half... It's odd to me that he's been so high on 2u... Is it a kind of bouncing from his nice green values on Friday? TIA :)
 
I'm not sure, Cara. It definitely could be a bounce from those low numbers. Some kitties bounce for a little while. Let's see where he goes today and see if that helps. :)
 
Hi, Cara (yep, late to the party - as usual!:rolleyes:) - Yeah, he could just be doin' the ol' bouncy-bounce on you. And as Rachel said, sometimes our kitties do this for a while. And as Sue has often said: "They bounce until ... they stop.";) I will add a couple of additional random musings, though:

1) As I mentioned earlier, it may be that Wynken's body is more sensitive to dose changes than some other cats' bodies are, and the only way you can tell is by holding the same dose for several (not just one or two) cycles and gathering as much data as you can while doing it. I know this can be hard to do (especially when you see higher #s than you want to, because it's only natural that you'd feel inclined to up the dose amount) but it might be worth a shot to try that.
2) You might also want to look closely at his BG #s as relates to which foods he has eaten on any given day, as it could be that some of them are higher in carbs than others. When you're feeding several different brands/formulas (even though we're presuming, based on the info given by the manufacturer, that they're all low-carb) as opposed to just one or two, the possibility does exist that at least one of those is actually higher in carbs than is represented by the maker of the food.

Again, these are just a couple of random thoughts - something I'd do if this were my own cat; I attempt to do certain rule-outs whenever she's seemed stuck in a pattern I'd like to see her get out of...:)
 
Thanks ladies! I have to run to the store today but will plan it to still get data we can use. I love that : "they bounce until... they stop." :smuggrin: Ha! Of course they do.:facepalm:

That is funny and so is something else that I came across earlier this morning that Sue wrote to someone else about them "dancing to a different tune.. AND they are the only ones that can hear the music!"

That would be Wynken... He always seems to be listening to something I can't hear... His own personal sugar dance!
 
Wynken - you're sure a bootiful bouncy baby boy! Looking at his ssheet, if his form holds true, this bounce will potentially break this cycle and he'll dive. Hopefully it will stop before it gets too steep which will likely cause another one to start. Oh what a high-wire act you like Sir Wynken!
 
Lyresa, your post made me laugh (really!) loud. :p Sir Wynken may just stick... As a nick name (not that he will know!). He is up and down and up and down... Just went up again today at +6.:confused:

I am going out. Will try to catch his +8 or 9.
 
So, for some reason, with a little more insulin, you get an unshootable pmps after a later nadir. With a little less, he has a regular nadir, even surfing along for several hours, but he is too high. I wonder if he is a kitty who has a slow reaction - as suggested, he needs time to adjust. The trick is not to give him too much time. We don't want him high and flat.

His SS is very confusing.

12/30. 2.4 on 456 gives you late nadir, unshootable pmps. So we think dose needs to go down a smidge.
12/31 Predictable high amps since skipped shot. Next cycle messed up.
1/1 2.4 on 390 again looks like too much, late nadir, unshootable pmps
1/2. what? Nadir at +9 with highest point at +6.
Today. 2 gives you about the same results as yesterday

You are going back to work. You could give him two more (tonight and tomorrow) cycles on 2 units to see if he is a kitty that needs consistency and awhile to adjust to a new dose. Then, if he is still high and flat, up him tomorrow night to 2.2 and get a before bed and maybe nadir overnight?

Robin has great ideas on food and I would use her expertise, to see if that makes a difference.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
You are going back to work. You could give him two more (tonight and tomorrow) cycles on 2 units to see if he is a kitty that needs consistency and awhile to adjust to a new dose. Then, if he is still high and flat, up him tomorrow night to 2.2 and get a before bed and maybe nadir overnight?

Robin has great ideas on food and I would use her expertise, to see if that makes a difference.
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Sue,
I really like everything that you wrote and I'm in complete agreement with doing what you propose. Thank you so much for your insight into how he's reacting. :bighug:I like the idea of leaving him steady for the next three cycles. And it really won't be any trouble to monitor him during the middle of the night or even midday. I will be able to come home during the middle of the day this week (at least Monday through Wednesday).

Wynk is by nature a ponderous and very deliberate thinker. He assesses things carefully, and is extremely laid-back. So it wouldn't surprise me (if his bio chemistry matches his demeanor) he could be somewhat "slow moving" as far as dosage and response. :p

I am thinking a lot about what @Robin&BB wrote... And I may need to just feed him the same meal over and over to take that variable out. I used to try for variety with him, because I felt it kept his appetite strong. But now that he's on the<3.5 oz a day diet plan, he eats like a starving child. So maybe that won't be an issue.... I just need to decide which combo (it's always 2 things, with the 2oz being the lower carb and the 1.2 oz being higher (2-4% carb, usually) as represented on Lisa Pierson's list).

You guys ROCK! :D:bighug:
 
Cara and Wynken said:
Wynk is by nature a ponderous and very deliberate thinker. He assesses things carefully, and is extremely laid-back. So it wouldn't surprise me (if his bio chemistry matches his demeanor) he could be somewhat "slow moving" as far as dosage and response. :p
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What an interesting observation, Cara ... you just might have something there! :)
 
Give the bounce a chance to break. If he is, like I suspect, a late nadir cat, increasing the dose is not going to help unless you are willing to shoot a "low" preshot on the next cycle.
Having two preshots in the 300+ range is not the best thing, nor is a "smiley curve". IMO, all that will do for you is keep him with two preshots that are too high, and a nadir that is either too high, or so low it causes a series of bounces.

Other than at shot time, what time(s) does he also eat? That might be an issue, and the timing of snacks can be altered to " fit" a late nadir prone cat.
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
Other than at shot time, what time(s) does he also eat? That might be an issue, and the timing of snacks can be altered to " fit" a late nadir prone cat.
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Carl,
Wynk doesn't eat anything other than the 2 meals... He hasn't for 6 years. Oh there's an occasional freeze dried treat of 4-5 Origen chunks. These are all meat... (usually only given as a reward if I've really had to really mess with his ears a lot.) This might be 2-3 times a month. I am going to be completely unable to incorporate snacks or off-cycle food into his schedule, so hopefully that's not needed.
 
OK, I guess I wasn't clear on the comments on your spreadsheet because it looked like he was eating more than twice per day?
 
Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) said:
OK, I guess I wasn't clear on the comments on your spreadsheet because it looked like he was eating more than twice per day?
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Ah, yes, well I can see how that might be confusing… :rolleyes:. Sorry... he always gets two types of food mixed up for his breakfast and two types of food mixed up for his dinner. And this is been true for many years.

Recently, @Robin&BB helped me see that his portion size was probably HIGHLY variable, because he had eaten every meal for his entire life alongside his sister (littermate) off the same plate. She weighs less than half of what he does. They have completely different frame sizes she is extremely delicate with tiny features and he is very big boned.

So you will see in the comments that I separated them at mealtime a couple weeks ago, and then also upon Robin suggestion I started noting how many ounces he was eating of each type of food. Does that help?
 
I feed exactly 2 flavors of food. I decided to have 2 because I have one kitty who has a sensitive tummy...she tends to throw up every other week or so after a meal. When that happens, she isn't usually interested in that food again...so I give the other flavor for a meal or 2 and then she's fine to go back! I used to think they needed more variety, but I read something someone said once..can't remember who, though it may have been BJ..."I give them the same flavor so they don't eat unless they are actually hungry". Struck a chord with me. I don't want them to eat just because they like the flavor...I want it to be actual hunger so they don't overeat.
 
Rachel said:
I feed exactly 2 flavors of food.
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I will definitely try to decide on a meal that works for Wynk that he can eat over and over, at least for awhile... To remove the possible variable of carbs being different at each meal.

Much of what you wrote really resonates with me. I am a huge proponent of ensuring that cats have an appetite when mealtime comes! I think it's important for them to not free feed, because I believe that over time, this can dull their appetite. It's not as big an issue with younger cats. But as they get older, if the food is always lying around and they can always smell it... they never get hungry. I think not having an appetite isn't good for their metabolism.

But I don't necessarily agree that all cats would do well on just one food. Wynk doesn't have any vomiting issues, thankfully. I can tell he enjoys variety. This isn't true with all of my cats. I lost a kitty last year that would only eat wellness grain free (chicken and turkey). And he wouldn't eat anything else!

I have one civvie who will be 19 this year and she does do better on just one canned food (Natures variety rabbit). This helps keep her allergies down. :p

I have one that needs low P food (she has CKD, as well as some heart issues and has recently been treated with radioactive iodine for her thyroid ). I spend a lot of my life offering her seventy eleven kinds of food, adding binders to the higher P ones. :confused:

I'll work something out for Wynk. :)

For a long time I've had assumptions about what I fed him and how I fed him and I have gotten help from this group in getting rid of some wrong assumptions. I appreciate the help!
 
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