worried pet parent

[Gweny poo]

Hello,
I am very new to this situation and I need some advise. My Cat, Gwen (we call her gwenny poo), is a newly diagnosed diabetic. It all started when I took my two cats in for a yearly check up. I mentioned at the time that one of them or both has been peeing outside of the litter box, not a speckle, but a lot!. They did blood work and a urine sample. Her numbers where in the high 500's low 600's
Turns out one of them had a uti and the other is a diabetic (gwen). They had started her on vetsulin and the other they gave a antibiotic. It worked for a few days because she was her old self. then the peeing outside the box started again. I knew who it was and they increased it a bunch of times and did curves. once she came home from the vets office she would be fine, until the next day. started all over again. We ended up getting a glucose monitor and record the numbers for the vets office. It was apparent that she might be insulin resistant. We did notice it was in the 500's and 400's.
Then they decided to try a new insulin called bovine. Worked for a few days or a day and went right back to where she started from. Now they are saying that she might be resistant to this one. On top of all of this she ended up with a bad uti. they gave her two shots of antibiotics.
I'm really worried that they aren't going to find something that works. Has anyone at all ran into this situation where it feels like nothing is working??? any advise would help.

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

First of all Wellcome!!!

I got to say you've arrived at the best place you never wanted to be, there's a lot of very experienced people here, some with even more experience than most vets because well they live every single day with feline diabetes.

Congratulations on home testing!! that's a great start !!

It would really help if you shared all the test results that you have so that everyone here can take a look at them to try and figure out what's going on there's a spreadsheet we use that will help you and everyone a lot, maybe you could fill it with the information you have here's the link http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

How old is gwen? When was gwenny diagnosed? How long was she on the first insulin? What was her dose? How long has she been on the new insulin? and what dose is she getting? What is her weight? is she overweight or underweight? What is she eating?

The UTI would cause her blood glucose numbers to raise so the infection could be affecting the results you are getting and it usually takes a long time to get a cat regulated

 

[Margie and Jackson]

there are conditions that cause cats to be insulin resistant. Check out the information at the Acromegaly forum here. Infections can also cause high blood sugar, if your cat also has a uti or other infection. I’m sure others will chime in later. Good luck!
Feeding wet food helps with blood sugar and uti. I hope Gweny gets better soon!

 

[Gweny poo]

Gwen just turned 13 and this has been diagnosed on may 24, so basically a month. we have many numbers and I don't have it with me now, we have a little diary that we record them in. She was 9 lbs, we have her on the W/d hills prescription diet. Along with the insulin. When we started the vetsulin it was 1 unit in the morning and 1 at night. We had her on that for a week, then I believe it went to 2 units both morning and evening a week of that and then it was 4 in the morning total. since that didn't work after a nother 5 days we switched over to bovine, it was for 4 days 2 and 2. we gave them our numbers and the hospitalized her to see if they can get it regulated. They talked to me yesterday saying she is probably resistant to this one too. so they are trying to find another solution. so we will see.. we are just reallyworried

 

[Gweny poo]

there are conditions that cause cats to be insulin resistant. Check out the information at the Acromegaly forum here. Infections can also cause high blood sugar, if your cat also has a uti or other infection. I’m sure others will chime in later. Good luck!
Feeding wet food helps with blood sugar and uti. I hope Gweny gets better soon!

Yeah I did look at that and I'm really hoping its not... but she is having a hard time getting rid of the uti and that's what we are worried about too. we thought it went away the first time, but I guess she didn't get rid of it all the way.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

Sophie started out on hills wd and it is WAY too high carb for diabetic cats - she was on a whopping 6 units of insulin twice a day when I fed her that. She is now on just 0.25 units and sometimes less! It might be worth changing her to a low carb wet food diet before considering that she is insulin resistant. However, this can be dangerous without proper home testing or a reduction in her dose, so I’m sure there’s someone who can advise you how to safely transition her.

 

[Gweny poo]

Sophie started out on hills wd and it is WAY too high carb for diabetic cats - she was on a whopping 6 units of insulin twice a day when I fed her that. She is now on just 0.25 units and sometimes less! It might be worth changing her to a low carb wet food diet before considering that she is insulin resistant. However, this can be dangerous without proper home testing or a reduction in her dose, so I’m sure there’s someone who can advise you how to safely transition her.

Is there any brand suggestions for a low carb? and they did give me wd wet food, is that the same?

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

Hi and welcome to FDMB. When she went to the vet for her check up, did they do a full blood work up also check if she needs a dental? If there is any infection or bad teeth that can contribute to the higher readings. Diet also affects glucose levels. You said she is on W/D. Is it canned or dry? W/D is high in carbs and that is contributing to the high levels. Changing to a low carb diet can lower glucose significantly.

Many members feed their cats canned Fancy Feast or Friskies food. The pate flavors are lower in carbs. I am glad to see you are home testing. You need to test before every shot, especially if you change her diet to a low carb food. For new members we generally recommend that you skip the dose if the glucose readings is below 200. This is done to prevent hypoglycemia. As you learn how she responds to the dose, you may be able to lower the don't shoot number.
Also since you switched insulins to a longer acting insulin, I suggest lowering to 1 unit twice a day instead of 2. This also reduces the risk of hypoglycemia. Is the insulin name BCP PZI? It is a good long acting insulin and better for cats than Vetsulin. When lowering the new dose you want to stay at it for at least a week before increasing it. If an increase is needed, only increase it by no more than 1/2 unit and keep it at that dose another week before increasing it again. The goal is to find the optimal dose that works best for Gwen. I know you have lots of questions. Please ask anything you want to know. We are here to help you with caring for your cats.

 

[Diana&Tom]

It is very early days to talk about insulin resistance and certain insulins not working. Treating FD can involve a very finely-balanced regime which may include small dose adjustments at a time to make sure you're not actually giving too much insulin, which can look like too little. Having an infection certainly muddies the waters as this is likely to raise bg and keep it high until the infection clears - by which time a cat may already be on too high a dose.

Ideally you want to get rid of the infection, feed a good-quality wet diet, and with these elements in place, start again a lowish dose. Monitor bg before every shot as a minimum, keep careful records - and then you'll be better placed to see if the dose needs tweaking.

Good luck!

 

[Gweny poo]

Hi and welcome to FDMB. When she went to the vet for her check up, did they do a full blood work up also check if she needs a dental? If there is any infection or bad teeth that can contribute to the higher readings. Diet also affects glucose levels. You said she is on W/D. Is it canned or dry? W/D is high in carbs and that is contributing to the high levels. Changing to a low carb diet can lower glucose significantly.

Many members feed their cats canned Fancy Feast or Friskies food. The pate flavors are lower in carbs. I am glad to see you are home testing. You need to test before every shot, especially if you change her diet to a low carb food. For new members we generally recommend that you skip the dose if the glucose readings is below 200. This is done to prevent hypoglycemia. As you learn how she responds to the dose, you may be able to lower the don't shoot number.
Also since you switched insulins to a longer acting insulin, I suggest lowering to 1 unit twice a day instead of 2. This also reduces the risk of hypoglycemia. Is the insulin name BCP PZI? It is a good long acting insulin and better for cats than Vetsulin. When lowering the new dose you want to stay at it for at least a week before increasing it. If an increase is needed, only increase it by no more than 1/2 unit and keep it at that dose before increasing it again. The goal is to find the optimal dose that works best for Gwen. I know you have lots of questions. Please ask anything you want to know. We are here to help you with caring for your cats.

Thank you I do appreciate it, She is getting the dry w/d. I do have the wet but she like the dry way too much lol. Since I did kinda figured that it might be the food, I'll see about talking to my vet and see if its okay. I like to have him in the loop too of what I think. I didn't know that it has a lot of carbs in it.
Yes the bcp pzi is the name but the problem arises is that we would take the glucose at home before the insulin it would be in the 500's (morning) then we would test it again in the afternoon,would be like 200-300 range. in the evening it would either be the same or back in the 500's and it would be all over again the next day. ITs like it never goes down at night time. In that time frame she grazes with food, but lately she would be so thirsty and so hungry that she would eat it all. We are only giving her a cup a day of the w/d, should I lessen the amount?? I was starting to think that maybe it would be too much anyway. also she pees outside the litter box, its not behavioral either because she never does that. let me know what the thoughts are.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

Thank you I do appreciate it, She is getting the dry w/d. I do have the wet but she like the dry way too much lol. Since I did kinda figured that it might be the food, I'll see about talking to my vet and see if its okay. I like to have him in the loop too of what I think. I didn't know that it has a lot of carbs in it.

Be prepared for them to tell you she has to stay on the WD. Every vet I’ve been to has pushed Hills HARD, even the vet we saw that was up to date on every other aspect of diabetes treatment. I’m glad I ignored them and quit giving Sophie the Hills because she has been so much better since!

Until she started having GI problems and I had to switch foods, she did very well on the chicken and beef flavors of fancy feast. Tiki cat also has good options as well if Gwen doesn’t like pate. When you transition a cat who’s used to eating dry, sometimes it’s just about finding the right flavor and texture that they like, and there’s lot of options! But yes even the wet WD is still too high carb.

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

The insulin you were using before, Vetsulin, is a short acting insulin that does not stay in the body long. BCP PZI does last longer but still needs to be given twice a day. It is very rare to find a cat that only needs 1 dose a day.

Did the vet send the urine out to have it cultured? That will tell them what bacteria is causing the infection and they can prescribe the antibiotics that works best against that bacteria strain. I had to do that with one of my cats.

Most likely you will begin to see the glucose levels drop significantly as the infection is cleared and switching to a low carb diet. That is why you should home test before every shot and why I recommend lowering the dose.

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

Hopefully when you have a little time you can set up the spreadsheet that way we can all see the whole picture, you would be surprised on how trends and tendencies are evident in the spreadsheet and that would help see what's going on.

She's been on both insulins very little time to already say she's having some sort of insulin resistance plus the fact that she's 500 or so in the morning and at leas sometimes 200-300 does not point towards insulin resistance, still it would be good to know all the data you have before jumping into any conclusions

There are a few things we can already notice that may be influencing the high numbers you are getting
- The UTI, that is probably rasing her numbers and until it clears, those may remain high, treating UTI in diabetic cats can be tricky and it usually requires several rounds of antibiotics
- The fact that she's getting a high carb food is also almost surely raising her blood glucose numbers she needs low carb (carbohydrate) food
- It appears she's getting insulin only once a day and cats need insulin every 12 hours because their metabolism is different from dogs or humans that's why her numbers are going high at night when she doesn't get insulin
- She's been on insulin for a very short time, regulating a cat takes time sometimes even months and her dose has been raised to fast

We are only giving her a cup a day of the w/d, should I lessen the amount?? I was starting to think that maybe it would be too much anyway.

It is not a good idea to restrict an unregulated diabetic cat food intake, because diabetes messes up with her body being able to get all the nutrients she needs, that is the reason why she's always hungry so unless she's overweight which doesn't seem to be the case, is ok to let her eat all she needs, but this is a BIG BUT it needs to be low carbohydrate (not the same as low calorie) preferably wet food here's a link to Dr. Lisa's food list that is going to help you a lot what you need is to pick one that suits you and that she likes that is 10% or less in carbohydrates in this list, and I would suggest you change both cats to the new diet it won't harm the other one and it may even help with her UTI issues
http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

And since she seems to like dry food a lot here are some tips for transitioning
http://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf

also she pees outside the litter box, its not behavioral either because she never does that.

Some diabetic cats suffer from something called diabetic neuropathy which makes their rear legs weak, that can cause pee issues because she's having trouble getting into the litter box, it can be treated and even reversed sometimes especially if it is not too bad as it seems to be the case it is treated giving them B12 methylcobalamin, in the US and some european countries there's a supplement called zobaline for treating this neuropathy

Here's a link to more information about this http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-weak-back-legs.178252/