Wildly inconsistent numbers btw Freestyle and Libre Lite

[Kristen ardito]

**MOVING from
Spreadsheets, Tech Support & Testing Area**

Hello, I've read all the threads about sticking to one device, and while I totally get that, right now I am using a Freestyle Libre until he gets regulated to get a sense of his curves throughout the day. I plan on eventually moving to checking ear.

That being said, when I originally put the Freestyle on him (yay, did it without the vet who charged me $300!), it was way off from blood draw. I took that to mean that the freestyle needed a day or two to calibrate.

He has now had the Freestyle on him for 9 days and the numbers are still like, nowhere even close. This morning the Freestyle AMPS was HI, +1 HI, +2 HI. I decided to check his ear because that seemed off to me, and the Libre lite read 242.

Someone here mentioned that it shouldn't be so far off. So...

1. Am I doing something wrong?
2. Which one should I go with if in doubt?
3. Is it typical for the Freestyle to run 150+ higher?

I don't mind a little variance as I can mathematically make sense of that. But this is statistically telling me two different things about the health of my cat.

Thank you!

 

[Larry and Kitties]

This morning the Freestyle AMPS was HI, +1 HI, +2 HI. I decided to check his ear because that seemed off to me, and the Libre lite read 242.

Do you mean the Libre read HI and and Freestyle Lite meter (ear stick) read 242?
If you use the Freestyle Lite on yourself do you get a good BG?

At High BGs I have seen a BG difference between a Libre 2 and Relion Prime on my Merle. At lower BGs they read a lot more closely.
What Libre are you using?

 

[Kristen ardito]

Yes sorry - the Libre read high and the ear stick read 242.

I just checked myself and it was 113 which seems about right (although I'm not all too familiar with my normal ranges).

I am using the Libre 2.

I checked it again about an hour ago (4pm EST) and Libre 2 again showed high and the Freestyle Lite showed 353 so closer but still off.

My biggest questions are:

1. Should I be freaking out since he's been high all day
2. Should I rely a little more on the BG given from the ear prick if in doubt?

I'm still so new to this that I just want my buddy to be ok and don't want to risk not doing something if I should be.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Don't worry so much about the high all day. He's not used to those numbers in the 100's you got a couple days ago, and is doing what we call bouncing. Definition here:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

It's a perfectly normal reaction for newly diagnosed cats, but annoying for us.

As for meters, if in doubt, I would trust the ear stick more. The Libre is great for trends or giving you warnings when he's getting lower, plus gives you peace of mind if you can't test as often. The differences you are seeing do seem a bit high. This post might have some tips to help you: Freestyle Libre for Cats; Tips and Information

 

[Larry and Kitties]

Libre 2 again showed high and the Freestyle Lite showed 353 so closer but still off.

On the Libre 2 >400 is HI when you scan. If you do not scan anything higher than 350 shows 350 on the graph. If you sfan when 350-400 the scan will return the BG. Thus, HI on Libre and ear stick of 353 is not unusual.
Here is BG comparison I got in Feb

 

[Kristen ardito]

Ughhh!!! Just happened again!! I am so confused.

Here is where I am: PMPS + 1.5

Readings:

High on the Libre 2.
132 Freestyle Lite

The reason I tested his ear was because it was strange to me that the reading is not coming down at all, which is not usual for him.

So since these are polar opposite signals I'm getting I'm just not sure what to do tonight. Be on the lookout for hypo?

What am I looking for since the readings aren't helping me at all.


He is:

1. CONSTANTLY hungry. Like sitting by his bowl. I have increased his food to 4 meals a day so I am wondering if this is a sign of being high or low
2. Not peeing as much but still more than normal
3. Not drinking as much but still more than normal
4. He does seem a little "off" - gait is fine, and can jump fine but he seems slower than normal

Hunger is the biggest "tell" and I'm not experienced yet to know what this means.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Are you just recording the Libre reading on your spreadsheet? It'd be helpful to see the Freestyle ones too.

I would test again in an hour with the ear stick. Give him a little food now, maybe a couple tsp of his regular food. Sometimes cats can signal that they are going low by being extra hungry. But also some who are high are hungry. The next test should tell you which way it's going.

What time during the cycle are the 4 meals?

 

[Kristen ardito]

I was adding the Libre on spreadsheet, with a note attached to the cell where I was doing Freestyle.

I can certainly add those as well. I just couldn't tell if it was going to look confusing and what the color code would correspond to.

Great, I gave him some extra friskies pate.

The 1st meal is 30 min before AMPS. The 2nd meal is 3 hours later. The third is btw 2-3 hours later. The 4th is btw 14-30 minutes before PMPS.

I will test him again in about a half hour.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

With Lantus, you don't need to feed them 1/2 hour before AMPS or PMPS. In fact, it's better not to, so we know what the preshot number is without influence of food and you know it's safe to give insulin. The usual routine is test, feed, then shoot. All within about 10-15 minutes. Any chance of giving him a bit of food before you go to bed as well? Many cats go lower at night, and food is the tool we use to keep them safe. Without a second meal in the night time, he could go even lower.

For the spreadsheet, you can manually color code cells with the paint icon.

 

[Kristen ardito]

Thanks for the info. I'll start the new protocol tomorrow - test, feed, shoot. That makes things easier actually.

I'll give him some food tonight before I head to bed.

Just did a last test (PMPS +3) and these were the results:

Libre: 334
Freestyle Lite: 274

It seems strange that the Freestyle Lite was so low earlier. Does it maybe need more blood? Because it's highly unlikely that his blood sugar went up so high 3 hours after his insulin. so likely, I'm doing something wrong when pricking his ear. This time I made sure there was a lot more blood.

In any case, these numbers are closer, and within the range of error for me to get a good sense of where he is.

Man....do you all go through this madness or is it just me??

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Man....do you all go through this madness or is it just me??

Nope, the beginning is tough. But we are around helping cause we all remember what it was like.

It is possible for his blood sugar to shoot up at +3 if he's bouncing, or didn't get the complete dose. But the Libre should show the same thing.