Whats a safe drop during cycles?

[CassAndGordy(GA)]

Gordy has been in the reds for almost all his pre-shots lately.

I've been doing something different after meeting with a new vet and she was thinking his doses were dropping him too much. I think I'll be changing things up Saturday (I said I'd give it a week), but I want to hold the dosage for now.

What do most cats that are regulated (which Gordy isn't LOL) drop in their normal cycles?

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

Vetsulin is a quicker acting insulin that tends to bring numbers down faster and earlier than the long-acting insulins. Usually a drop of 50% at nadir (lowest number) is to be expected. It may be that Gordy may need a bit more insulin or perhaps more consistent dosing for the AM and PM shot. On a number of days you have shot 3 units in the AM and only 1 unit in the PM with the same number. You seem to be getting lots of tests in which is great, so keeping the same dosing with the same numbers may give better overall results. In mnay kitties Vetsulin tends to last 8-10 hours, although some have gotten a long duration.

You might want to post on the Vetsulin/Caninsulin forum at:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

to get more opinions and observations from people who regularly use this type of insulin.

 

[CassAndGordy(GA)]

It may be that Gordy may need a bit more insulin or perhaps more consistent dosing for the AM and PM shot.

This is what my Vet wanted me to try. She wanted to do a higher dose in the AM and lower dose in PM. It's not really making much of a difference.

I sent her the spreadsheet yesterday and my opinions so far; I'll see what she says.

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

This is what my Vet wanted me to try. She wanted to do a higher dose in the AM and lower dose in PM. It's not really making much of a difference.

I sent her the spreadsheet yesterday and my opinions so far; I'll see what she says.

Since Gordy's numbers are similar in the AM and PM it makes more sense to dose on the actual number. You get lots of tests in so you are able to monitor well. If Gordy has a higher number in the PM and it is not brought down, then it is harder again to get into good ranges for the AM cycle. Some kitties will have big differences in their AM and PM numbers, so in that case having different dosing would be a good idea.

 

[CassAndGordy(GA)]

Since Gordy's numbers are similar in the AM and PM it makes more sense to dose on the actual number. You get lots of tests in so you are able to monitor well. If Gordy has a higher number in the PM and it is not brought down, then it is harder again to get into good ranges for the AM cycle. Some kitties will have big differences in their AM and PM numbers, so in that case having different dosing would be a good idea.

The Vet was thinking his activity level could be playing into it. He has had history of having the lower PMPS but rocketing back up in the AM. The thought is that he is more "active" in the AM cycle and sleeping during the PM... But I think it's actually the reverse for Gord (LOL). He is wide awake for the better half of his PM cycle, playing and annoying me.

When I dosed higher, he was dropping more than 50%, but then go right back into high 300s or low 400s. It wasn't sticking.

I want to give Vetsulin a chance, but I am really thinking its not the insulin for him... We'll see.

(I am just rambling now...)

 

[Tuxedo Mom]

The Vet was thinking his activity level could be playing into it. He has had history of having the lower PMPS but rocketing back up in the AM. The thought is that he is more "active" in the AM cycle and sleeping during the PM... But I think it's actually the reverse for Gord (LOL). He is wide awake for the better half of his PM cycle, playing and annoying me.

When I dosed higher, he was dropping more than 50%, but then go right back into high 300s or low 400s. It wasn't sticking.

I want to give Vetsulin a chance, but I am really thinking its not the insulin for him... We'll see.

(I am just rambling now...)

Some members have had good luck with Vetsulin. others have had to change to a longer-acting type. At this stage I think trying to find the right dose (both AM and PM) is the best approach and then see how he does on that. Even with the long acting insulins you can have lots of ups and downs as well, so it all comes down to what works best for YOUR kitty.

Bouncing will happen when numbers drop too low, too quickly or into ranges that your kitty's body is not "used" to. The treatment direction is to get the numbers into a better range and have the body "accept" these as normal without the counter-regulatory processes happening which raise the glucose levels. As the bounces get less pronounced and a shorter duration, the kitty will start to become better regulated, then dosing can be fine-tuned. Unfortunately, this does not always happen quickly, so lots of patience is needed as well as a good treatment plan.

 

[Critter Mom]

When I dosed higher, he was dropping more than 50%, but then go right back into high 300s or low 400s. It wasn't sticking.

That sounds typical of the action profile of Vetsulin. It might well be worth considering a switch to Lantus or Levemir. The drops don't tend to be as precipitous on the L insulins and you might be able to get to a dose that works for both AM and PM cycles and keeps Gordy in safe numbers.

For info, the wild swings in BG that Vetsulin can produce may make some cats feel very rough (and might possibly make them even more 'bouncy'). Also for info, many cats naturally tend to run lower during the night. In Gordy's case if he's more active at night the exercise could also be playing into lower numbers on the PM cycle.


Mogs
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[Lisa and Smoky]

Have you thought about trying prozinc for Gordy? It is similar in nature to vetsulin with dosing but is a bit longer lasting. My cat Smoky was on Vetsulin for a few months and had big drops in BG and would then jump back into higher numbers again. I switched him to prozinc two weeks ago and it is making a big difference already for him. His BG numbers are dropping from being stuck in higher ranges, 450 to over 600, to 300's to 400's. It's just something to think about if u want to look into it.