What is considered a "high" dose of PCP-PZI?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Buffy-&-Cindee

Buffy-&-Cindee

Member
Does anyone know what dose of BCP-PZI is considered high. Buffy doesn't seem to be responding any better to this insulin over Lantus or Prozinc. She's never had more than 4.0 units of any insulin. The vet isn't all that familiar with BCP-PZI and is going to contact UC Davis about the dose but in the mean time I was wondering if anyone here knows.
 
Last edited:
It works very similar to ProZinc. I was wondering when you were planning to switch From ProZinc if if it would act much differently. I would definitely consider Levemir. If she is going to be a higher dose cat, it tends to have a longer flatter cycle and stings less at higher doses.

I do think her chart is confusing. She did very well early on with low numbers. And then in the spring, it was like it wasn't working any more and hasn't impacted her numbers much since. Has your vet thought about Insulin Resistance? I don't know much about it, but I do think it impacts some cats.

We usually consider 5 units to be a high dose and start wondering what else is going on or whether an insulin change is needed. You could continue to raise the dose of BCPPZI, every three cycles by 0.5 - being careful to catch the nadir each time - and see if she starts to get any action.

Did you check out the Lantus/Levemir forum to see how Levemir is working for higher dose cats? You might post with "Higher dose/Levemir" in your subject line.
 
When the dose gets up around 6 units twice a day, we start thinking seriously about the high dose conditions of acromegaly, insulin auto-antibodies, and Cushings. Hyperthyroidism can result in insulin resistance, too, so check if the thyroid levels have been taken - its usually a separate blood test.
 
Thanks everyone. Sorry I wasn't able to reply sooner.

Yep, low carb, canned or raw food only, no infections, great teeth. The vet is stumped. We've tried Lantus, ProZinc and now BCP-PZI. Levemir is the only insulin we haven't tried. I'm starting to think, it's not the insulin because her numbers don't seem to change regardless of the type of insulin or the dose.

It's as if a switch was turned off in the beginning of March, that's went things started going downhill. Her thyroid hasn't been tested so that's next on the list. I should hear from my vet tomorrow. He was going to contact US Davis and run this by them.
 
Yes this is quite a mystery. You probably are already doing this but just a reminder with those higher numbers to get in plenty of ketone tests in. Good luck tomorrow.
 
Jan, it seems quite irresponsible to me for you to suggest dosing every six hours. I would argue that your approach may work for your cat but could prove to be dangerous for someone else's cat. Our first responsibility here is to do no harm. Dosing every 8 hours can be done and has been suggested to Cindee. But dosing more often than that, before a possible nadir, could see up a dangerous situation, adding insulin when the previous dose is not gone.

I have not seen you posting on the board on a regular basis. The last time you posted, you were urging someone who had been on ProZinc for one day to change to your insulin.

We have worked hard as a group, with input from many experienced users to put together a protocol we agreed was safe and effective. I don't think any one here would advocate dosing every six hours.
 
Kim's Kitty did poorly on BID dosing of ProZinc, but was right on target when dosed TID (every 8 hrs). A difficult schedule to keep, particularly if you have a commute, but it made all the difference for them. Even the vet school insisted on BID and she zoomed. Right back down to normal when TID. I think she was at about 3-3.5u TID.

Grayson was tested when he was at ~4u BID ProZinc and not responding. Sure enough, he was insulin resistant and Acromegalic. Once we had those test results (from Michigan State University), then we switched to Levemir (longer acting with carry-over, pH-neutral so doesn't sting at high doses). We climbed the dosing ladder after we had SRT, and within 3 months we finally started seeing movement. A side effect of the SRT that he had was hypo-thyroidism, which was treated with a small pill daily (that he took in freeze dried chicken crumbs - EASY!!!).

I would certainly encourage you to consider ProZinc TID, but strongly discourage you from 6 hrs. You may just need more insulin.

I just checked your SS - Definitely think you need more insulin.
 
Some cats don't have other conditions, they just need higher doses. This week @MrWorfMen's Mom upped her cat to 6 units of a Lantus BID and finally broke the cycle of high numbers. The same thing happened when @pevsfreedom took his cat up to 6 units of Lantus. It may be that you haven't hit that magic number yet. Or switching to Levemir might help. Different cats respond to different insulins. If the vet is on board, maybe increase the dose. I know you can give high doses of Lantus, not sure about PZI. If the vet doesn't want to increase PZI, what about switching back to Lantus or Levemir and giving higher doses? Also, has the vet evaluated Buffy for any of the conditions that BJM mentioned?
 
Last edited:
My vet was stumped with Menace's lack of any response to the Lantus and consulted a specialist in Texas. He said he would not consider a cat high dose until the dose was up to 6 or 7u BID. He wondered if she might have some underlying asymptomatic pancreatitis.

I understand just how frustrating it is to watch the numbers not budging despite dose increases. I was on the verge of revisiting the possibility of insulin resistance, acromegaly or a change of insulin when suddenly...a breakthrough! That said, I realized from the beginning that Menace was going to likely need a slighter higher dose than most given her refusal to entertain the idea of letting anything that doesn't crunch past her lips! :rolleyes:

It's hard to decide what to do, but I think it's worth giving the BCP a good run before switching again. Interestingly, the Texas consultant recommended PZI as the next insulin to try with Menace if we couldn't get her regulated on 6 or 7u BID of Lantus.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top