What is a typical insulin dosage for a regulated kitty?

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Bucasmom

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Just wondering, for those of you still giving insulin.... what is a typical dosage amount you have seen for your kitties to be regulated on? My vet mentioned that she typically sees regulation on a very high dose and I don't know if there is some conversion to do there to correspond with what you guys are using (I am in Canada).... but it seemed SO high to me. Also, she is using caninsulin so that could be why.... better insulins may need less of a dose because they last longer? Buca is on 4u bid caninsulin and rather than take it higher I am just going to switch to a lower dose of longer lasting insulin and get his diet figured out.
If anyone wants to reply with their dosage so that I don't have to compare everyone's ss that would be great :smile:
 
First, Each cat is different just like each human is different. Some cats are heavily affected by a 1% rise in carbs while others can eat anything up to 10% without making much of a difference. Humans - my diabetic grandmother could eat potatoes without a hiccup while my cousin can eat a single bite, his will rise over 100 points within 15 minutes. Insulin is a hormone, not a chemical medicine with a 'standard' dosing.

KT's on Lantus, is not 'regulated' as we're still wiggling around different doses but it's somewhere around 2.5 units.

...so...this didn't answer your question but I really don't think there IS an answer....but high doses are generally not needed unless there's some other underlying issue.

HUGS!
 
Thanks for your reply! I know it's hard to answer.... but my vet said that she typically sees cats regulate on very high dosages - like 6u bid, and I've never seen anyone on here mention that high of a dose before. Even with Buca on 4u bid that seems very high.
 
Bucasmom said:
Just wondering, for those of you still giving insulin.... what is a typical dosage amount you have seen for your kitties to be regulated on? My vet mentioned that she typically sees regulation on a very high dose and I don't know if there is some conversion to do there to correspond with what you guys are using (I am in Canada).... but it seemed SO high to me. Also, she is using caninsulin so that could be why.... better insulins may need less of a dose because they last longer? Buca is on 4u bid caninsulin and rather than take it higher I am just going to switch to a lower dose of longer lasting insulin and get his diet figured out.
If anyone wants to reply with their dosage so that I don't have to compare everyone's ss that would be great :smile:
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I am so glad you are in Canada! You can go to any pharmacy, I always got my insulins at Shoppers DrugMart and got their Optimum card for points.... they add up, believe me .... so you would do well to switch to either Lantus or Levemir. I would go with Levemir as it's much more gentle than Lantus. Caninsulin maybe OK for dogs, but it's lousy for cats. That's why your vet is saying that high dose of 6u is often seen.... On Caninsulin, yes, but not the other longer lasting insulins, unless you have a cat with some insulin resistance condition.

While you are at the pharmacy getting a better insulin, you can pick up a BG meter so you can home test, if you are not already testing.

As for what dose you see a regulated cat, that depends what the cat needs. My 2 cats were high dose acros, so their regulated doses on Lev were around 37u or 21u or whatever happened to get them into BG numbers in the 100 to 200 range. Most cats don't need much insulin more than around 3u, but you will see lots on 1u or even less. The insulin is just like a helper for your cat, so it depends on how much help your cat needs.
 
With the two insulins that I am familiar with Lantus and Levermir most cats don't normally need more than 1u b.i.d. some even less, some a little more but to be regulated, seldom on either of those two insulins do we see a cat need high doses to regulate unless there are other underlying health issues like IAA or Acro.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Bucasmom said:
my vet said that she typically sees cats regulate on very high dosages - like 6u bid, and I've never seen anyone on here mention that high of a dose before. Even with Buca on 4u bid that seems very high.
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What kind of food are you feeding your cat? A high carb food will result in higher blood glucose levels and more insulin needed to get blood glucose levels to a more normal range. Most vets tend not to know about proper nutrition and just say to feed the prescription stuff. Maybe that is why your vet says that her clients are regulated at 6 units or more, because those clients feed the high carb most and, most likely dry, prescription stuff.

Some diabetic cats also have acromegaly or Cushings which means that a very high dose of insulin is needed. I remember someone on the old board who was giving as much as 30 units twice a day for an acromegaly cat :shock:

The insulin you are using may not be working well for your cat. Caninsulin is mainly for dogs, though some cats do well on it. Ask your vet about other insulins to use. Lantus (glaringe) and Levemir (detemir) are good choices. ProZinc is another good one.
 
fwiw, my Mousie is very well regulated on half a unit twice a day and has been for quite some time now. even before we had to switch from Idexx's PZI to Lantus she took half to one unit twice a day. she has never, in the 6 years she's been diabetic, needed more than that.

so, that's an example of a kitty that's been regulated for years on a very small dose.

like others have said, most of the kitties i've seen pass thru this board over the years take small doses (a drop to maybe 1.5 or 2 units twice a day) but if they have one of the aforementioned underlying issues, the dose is usually much higher. fwiw, i've also seen higher doses with the introduction of prozinc a couple years ago but in all fairness, i'm not around enough anymore to know if prozinc has been figured out yet and if the higher doses are still the norm with it or not.
 
Would you say that your vet treats more dogs than cats? A 4u or 6u dose on dogs isn't high at all. I'd be interested to hear how many kitties your vet has had go into remission on high doses of caninsulin. I might be mistaken, but I don't think dogs can go into remission.
My cat, Bob, went as high as 4u BID before he really started to improve. But that was on PZI, not caninsulin. And that is one of the higher doses I've seen in PZI in the year I've been on the board. There are/were a few that were higher than that, but most seem to only need 2u or less, twice a day, and many never get that high in dose.

Carl
 
What kind of food are you feeding your cat? A high carb food will result in higher blood glucose levels and more insulin needed to get blood glucose levels to a more normal range. Most vets tend not to know about proper nutrition and just say to feed the prescription stuff. Maybe that is why your vet says that her clients are regulated at 6 units or more, because those clients feed the high carb most and, most likely dry, prescription stuff.
My thoughts exactly.... he is on about the highest carb dry food there is.... Hills W/D for weight management and pH regulation due to struvite crystals he nearly died from two winters ago... although he has been without a crystal relapse (relapses are so common so we are glad to have not seen it come back!), he now has diabetes! The first ingredient is corn gluten so I don't understand how keeping him on that food with ingredients very high on the glycemic index can benefit him right now. And from what I've read, and the awesome advice I've received here, nothing is better than a wet food diet low in carbs.

I'm still a little nervous to take him off of it completely, but am willing to try it and hope that he doesn't get crystals again.

What kind of container does Lantus or Levemir come in? I called my drug store (I don't have a Shoppers unfortunately) and they have them both in cartridge form- 15 cartridges which totals 100u I think- for $115 for Lantus and $127 for Levemir. Can I still use u40 syringes for those?
 
I don't quite understand the units of measurement for it... or what the package looks like... I just wanted a bottle of insulin and they were talking about cartridges and pens etc etc... lol
 
With both Lantus and Levemir you need to use U100 syringes....PZI/ProZinc uses either U100 with a conversion chart, or U40 syringes. Both Lantus and Levemir come in both vials and flexpens...which while maybe more expensive upfront comes out cheaper in the long run since there is less insulin in the pens (you still use a syringe to draw it out of the pens) so you can use it all up before the insulin loses its potency.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
You can get it in either 3, 5ml cartridges (pens), for a total of 15ml, or, you also have the option of getting one 10ml vial. The pens are the better buy, because they last longer and are more economical. You draw insulin from them with a syringe just like you would the vial.

Lantus and Levemir are both u-100 insulins, so you need u-100 syringes. Ask for .3cc, 31g, 8mm syringes with half unit markings at the pharmacy. They're not very expensive. I don't know how much they run in Canada but in the US I pay $11 bucks for a box of 100 at Walmart.
 
Bucasmom said:
I don't quite understand the units of measurement for it... or what the package looks like... I just wanted a bottle of insulin and they were talking about cartridges and pens etc etc... lol
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Lantus and Levemir, and some other Human insulins, are available in three different containers: the common 10 ml bottle, a cartridge that is inserted into an insulin pen (for Human diabetics), and as a pen that is filled with the insulin. For a diabetic cat, you can use any of these. With the cartridge, you don't need the insulin pen. The end of the cartridge has a rubber stopper, just like a 10 ml bottle, and you insert the insulin syringe needle directly into that to draw up a dose. With a pen you do not need the pen needles. Again, there is a rubber stopper at the capped end (remove cap just like you would with a ballpoint pen and recap afterwards) and insert the insulin syringe needle into it.

lantus.jpg


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(I don't think the Lantus cartridges are being made anymore)

Lantus%20SoloStar%20crop.JPG


There are pictures here of how to use a pen or cartridge. And this:

How%20to%20use%20an%20%20insulin%20pen%20for%20cats.jpg


Lantus, Levemir, and other Human insulins are U100 so you absolutely must use U100 insulin syringes. U40 insulin syringes will not give your cat the correct amount of U100 insulin. U-100 will have 100 units per mL, and U-40 has 40 units per mL. This means that U-100 has 2.5 times the amount of active insulin per mL, therefore 2.5 times as strong. Appropriate syringes are made for use with the respective insulin, marked with the correct measure for dosage.
 
It really will depend on the insulin, the diet, and the underlying conditions of the cat. It is best to not look at the dose and focus on the BGs numbers. (I've had this beat into my head as we've gotten up to 9 units of Lantus on Smokey :lol: ).
We've now switched to Lev with the hopes of finding a lower dose to settle in to. Fix the things you can - Diet is always the easiest: low carb wet? Then look at underlying medical conditions - dental needed? Infection? Pancreatitis or other possible inflammatory disease that is causing problems? Then the insulin -is there a better one? There are better insulins than Caninsulin. Lantus is often the go-to on cats these days. The P insulins are good when vets won't prescribe human off-label. We are going to Lev because it has shown signs of better reg at lower doses for cats at high doses of Lantus.
Go through what you can fix and then let the units fall where they need to be.
 
Scooter is well regulated right now on 1.25u. But he was up to 2.75u before he came crashing down in a series of hypos. It really depends on the cat... some need 1u, some need 3, some need 8... some are super carb sensitive, some have other underlying health issues keeping the numbers up, some are just weird... ECID.

Get your Lantus at Walmart or Costco's pharmacy. It should be around $105 for a 5-pack of 3ml Lantus pen cartridges. Those should last you just under a year or so... depends on what dose you're using. They are meant for the Solostar pens, but they have a rubber stopper on the end just like the vials, so you can use a syringe needle to draw the right dose. Insulin pen devices only measure in 1u increments, since humans use far more insulin, and therefore less precise doses, than cats do... so we use syringes to measure our own doses. The small Lantus pen cartridges are ideal because it is a smaller amount of insulin in multiple containers so it is less devastating when one gets dropped and broken, or contaminated, or left out on the counter etc. you only lose one pen as opposed to an entire vial.

You will also want a box of u-100 syringes, 30 or 31 gauge (bigger number = smaller needle), 5/16 inch needle length. Preferably with half unit markings so you don't have to eyeball half or quarter unit doses. I know the BD Ultrafine II are available in a lot of pharmacies. They aren't my favorite but once you get a technique down for drawing with them, they're pretty good. HOWEVER... syringes are very expensive in Canada. I pay $36 for a box of 100.
 
Ry & Scooter said:
Get your Lantus at Walmart or Costco's pharmacy. It is $105 for a 5-pack of 3ml Lantus pen cartridges.
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Wow! I got my Lantus 5-pack of pens at Costco here in the states and it was $208.
 
Ry & Scooter said:
Get your Lantus at Walmart or Costco's pharmacy. It should be around $105 for a 5-pack of 3ml Lantus pen cartridges. .
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Unfortunately, I live 3 hours from the nearest wal mart and 5 hours from the nearest Costco. Our town has one drug store. I'm very limited :lol:
 
Bucasmom said:
Ry & Scooter said:
Get your Lantus at Walmart or Costco's pharmacy. It should be around $105 for a 5-pack of 3ml Lantus pen cartridges. .
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Unfortunately, I live 3 hours from the nearest wal mart and 5 hours from the nearest Costco. Our town has one drug store. I'm very limited :lol:
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Go to that one drug store and get a 5-pack of cartridges. Surely they carry insulin for diabetics. You don't need to get pens; I just got the box of 5 cartridges.... same thing only no pen.
 
Im in the uk and my boy is on 5u twice a day but it has taken us nearly 3 months to get to this dose and he is quite a big cat, more like dog size really and he was just over 7kg before he got diagnosed.
 
I just get my insulin cartridges from the pharmacy associated with the local grocery store, also about $105 for a 5 pack of cartridges. Cartridges are available in Canada, but not the US.

Food will be a very important part of regulating your kitty. Check out the Dr. Lisa site at http://www.catinfo.org/ for how to transition from dry to wet and what kind of diets are good for both diabetic and crystal prone cats. When my kitty #1 was diagnosed with diabetes, kitty #2 was diagnosed with crystals the week after. Since food for crystal kitty was bad for FD kitty, my vet suggested raw food as a diet for both. You don't have to go raw unless you want to. Read Dr Lisa's site for alternatives, but one big thing is a diet with a lot more water.

BTW, my cat was on Caninsulin first, up to 5 units where the vet considered her regulated. She is now on Lantus, 5 units and going up. But we are seeing better numbers than we were for Caninsulin and it's lasting much longer. Caninsulin didn't last as long and she was howling for food 3-4 hours before dinner.
 
Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
You don't need to get pens; I just got the box of 5 cartridges.... same thing only no pen.
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I thought the Lantus OptiClik cartridges have been discontinued? confused_cat http://www.opticlik.com/


The Lnatus SoloStar pens are still being made you. You do not need the pen needles. Just use insulin syringes to get the insulin out thorugh the rubber stopper, just like you would with a 10 ml bottle.
 
The cartridges are discontinued in the U.S. They have a big "export prohibited" sign on the package in Canada.
 
Here's what my drugstore is giving me:

5 pack lantus $115.58
100 u100 syringes 31g 8mm with half markings $32.46

Starting tomorrow or monday while I am still home for the long weekend with 1u bid :D
 
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