Just thought I would give an update on Spacey. He is still on Prozinc 3.5 to 4 units twice daily. I am still feeding him Fancy Feast turkey/giblets and Friskies special diet turkey/giblets, SD beef & liver or SD beef & chicken or SD salmon or ocean whitefish. Mostly the Fancy Feast turkey and giblets. Usually at shot times and nadir times, or if he is acting hungry. His BGs are still high right before shot times, usually in the 400s. His nadir BGs are only dropping into the 200s to 300s. Every time I lower his insulin from 4u to 3.5u, his BGs are higher. I know some of you have suggested I lower his insulin lower, but just lowering it to 3.5 causes his BGs to go higher. I have thought about switching my vet to another vet who would prescribe another insulin, Lantus longer lasting. If I can't get his BGs to go down I am worried. He was diagnosed August 31, and probably had high BGs before he was diagnosed. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Lori and Spacey.
We are still here-Spacey and Lori
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Jana+BK+Chester(GA)+Wilbur
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Unfortunately, I don't know much about ProZinc. I'm sure someone will be along who can discuss that insulin with you.
Because I don't know about the insulin you are using, I don't know if one consideration ought to be changing to Lantus. I can tell you that when B.K. was originally diagnosed, he was on Idexx PZI and doing well. After Idexx stopped making PZI, he was started on Vetsulin (and this was well before Vetsulin had its problems), and Vetsulin just wasn't a good insulin for B.K. I think both he and I gave it a fair chance, but it caused his BG levels to bounce all over the place - from so high it couldn't be measured, to drops that resulted in several hypo's. I spoke with my vet and it was decided a change was needed and we started on Lantus. So, I suppose the moral of the story is that all insulins aren't for all cats...I just don't know if that applies to Spacey or not.
Because I don't know about the insulin you are using, I don't know if one consideration ought to be changing to Lantus. I can tell you that when B.K. was originally diagnosed, he was on Idexx PZI and doing well. After Idexx stopped making PZI, he was started on Vetsulin (and this was well before Vetsulin had its problems), and Vetsulin just wasn't a good insulin for B.K. I think both he and I gave it a fair chance, but it caused his BG levels to bounce all over the place - from so high it couldn't be measured, to drops that resulted in several hypo's. I spoke with my vet and it was decided a change was needed and we started on Lantus. So, I suppose the moral of the story is that all insulins aren't for all cats...I just don't know if that applies to Spacey or not.
I can't comment on the insulin you are using now either, so I can't say what to try to be sure it's not working well for your cat.
I had one question ... have you asked your vet about switching insulins? If you feel that you want to switch to Lantus, then TELL your vet you want to switch. If your vet denies your choice, then I think it may be an idea to look around for a vet who is willing to work with you for the best treatment of your cat. I would certainly want a full explanation from the vet for the denial as well.
That being said, I am sure that the others on this site who are using the same insulin may have some great suggestions to try before going with a switch of insulin.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
I had one question ... have you asked your vet about switching insulins? If you feel that you want to switch to Lantus, then TELL your vet you want to switch. If your vet denies your choice, then I think it may be an idea to look around for a vet who is willing to work with you for the best treatment of your cat. I would certainly want a full explanation from the vet for the denial as well.
That being said, I am sure that the others on this site who are using the same insulin may have some great suggestions to try before going with a switch of insulin.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
Hey there Lori. We were a ProZinc user and did well with it. Any chance you can get your testing results put into a spreadsheet ["SS"] then linked in your signature? The instructions for this can be found in the top of the tech support forum in the stickies here:
viewforum.php?f=6
This will really help us take a better look at your numbers.
It sounds like you are home testing, congratulations on that!
Are all the foods you are feeding low carb [less than 9-10% carbs as % Kcal]? I apologize, I'm not super familiar with all the foods you are feeding.
I may not be able to get back to you personally as I'm on the road. But there are other PZI/ProZinc users here that will hopefully be along shortly that I know would find your SS to be very helpful. Also if you get a chance put together a profile - instructions for this are also in thos stickies mentioned. Also if you have not already, do make sure to make you way over to the PZI Insulin Support Group [ISG] and read the info in the PZI Sticky at the top of that forum too. viewforum.php?f=24
When you are ready, you are also more than welcome to join us over in PZI too.
Hopefully we can help optimize your ProZinc. Longer term, there is another PZI based insulin called BCP that's a good option too [not necessarily "better"] but might work "better" for your specific kitty if your vet will only prescribe a PZI based insulin. But again hopefully we can help you sort out the ProZinc. If you are thinking about a switch to Lantus or Lev, do your research and make sure it is the best choice for you and your kitty. PZI has certain advantages and Lantus & Levimir have certain advantages.
viewforum.php?f=6
This will really help us take a better look at your numbers.
It sounds like you are home testing, congratulations on that!
Are all the foods you are feeding low carb [less than 9-10% carbs as % Kcal]? I apologize, I'm not super familiar with all the foods you are feeding.
I may not be able to get back to you personally as I'm on the road. But there are other PZI/ProZinc users here that will hopefully be along shortly that I know would find your SS to be very helpful. Also if you get a chance put together a profile - instructions for this are also in thos stickies mentioned. Also if you have not already, do make sure to make you way over to the PZI Insulin Support Group [ISG] and read the info in the PZI Sticky at the top of that forum too. viewforum.php?f=24
When you are ready, you are also more than welcome to join us over in PZI too.
Hopefully we can help optimize your ProZinc. Longer term, there is another PZI based insulin called BCP that's a good option too [not necessarily "better"] but might work "better" for your specific kitty if your vet will only prescribe a PZI based insulin. But again hopefully we can help you sort out the ProZinc. If you are thinking about a switch to Lantus or Lev, do your research and make sure it is the best choice for you and your kitty. PZI has certain advantages and Lantus & Levimir have certain advantages.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Hi Lori,
We don't have too many people who visit regularly and use PZI. I used it with Oliver but it has been 4 years. I did post on the PZI support group and asked for users to come look at your post.
Kitties who don't respond to insulin in the way expected are the hardest to work with. It does seem like you have a couple choices
Change insulins and start at a lower dose. Cats respond to different insulins differently. If you change to Lantus, please go over to the Lantus board and ask for advice on a starting dose.
It is possible that you started over his ideal dose and he is in rebound. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound
If he is in rebound, going down from 4 units to 3.5 of PZI may not have been enough of a reduction; if 3.5 is too high, you would still get the rebound numbers. I know it would be scary to go down to 1 unit for a week. If you did that, you would need to religiously test for ketones and keep a close eye on his bg levels. (This is assuming you didn't start at one unit and stayed there at least a week in the beginning....)
It is possible that he is a high dose cat viewforum.php?f=12 but you would need to do some testing to find that out.
Unfortunately, there is no way for us (or your vet) to know what is going on until you experiment with insulins, or doses or do some tests.
We don't have too many people who visit regularly and use PZI. I used it with Oliver but it has been 4 years. I did post on the PZI support group and asked for users to come look at your post.
Kitties who don't respond to insulin in the way expected are the hardest to work with. It does seem like you have a couple choices
Change insulins and start at a lower dose. Cats respond to different insulins differently. If you change to Lantus, please go over to the Lantus board and ask for advice on a starting dose.
It is possible that you started over his ideal dose and he is in rebound. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound
If he is in rebound, going down from 4 units to 3.5 of PZI may not have been enough of a reduction; if 3.5 is too high, you would still get the rebound numbers. I know it would be scary to go down to 1 unit for a week. If you did that, you would need to religiously test for ketones and keep a close eye on his bg levels. (This is assuming you didn't start at one unit and stayed there at least a week in the beginning....)
It is possible that he is a high dose cat viewforum.php?f=12 but you would need to do some testing to find that out.
Unfortunately, there is no way for us (or your vet) to know what is going on until you experiment with insulins, or doses or do some tests.
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