? Vetsulin post-surgery dosage advice

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RedCedar

Member Since 2023
Hello,
My sugarkitty is on Vetsulin and getting 1.5U; we were looking to switch him to glargine and were in the process of discussing with his vet - however, in the meantime we found a mass on his hind leg and got surgery scheduled to remove it, so we paused any changes since he was stable enough on his current Vetsulin dose. He had his surgery on Wednesday and we are still waiting on biopsy results.

His vet did the surgery on local anesthesia so that we wouldn't have to fast him, so he got his normal dose and meal in the AM. However, when they were monitoring him at the clinic post surgery, I was told at pick up time that he hadn't wanted to eat anything, which was very upsetting. I had left two different cans of food, some kibble, and some treats to make sure they had a wide variety of things to offer to him to get him to eat, and none of it was used. But anyway...
I brought him home in a rush, fed him, and a bit after tested for his PM shot. His BG was 500 which is higher than his normal pre-shot values. We gave his normal dose, then monitored through his nadir window and he got green numbers which are good per se, but it was a BIG drop from 500. In hindsight I am guessing he must have gone too low during the day and the 500 was a bounce back.
The morning after, his pre-shot value was around 200 and we skipped. It then stabilized to above 300 pre-shot and had normal nadirs (for him). Vet office said to not be concerned that the values were a bit off post-surgery and that we could proceed as normal.

Now - in hindsight (x2) we should have kept testing pre-shot anyway instead of taking the reassurance that everything was fine. I feel very bad for it, but we have a lot going on (other pets dealing with serious health problems too) and I often fall for the 'someone else said it's OK so I'm just being paranoid' mindset.

Anyway - today I gave him his +4 hour meal as usual and noticed he was ravenous, which made me suspicious so I tested him and he came at 55 (on AlphaTrak). Managed to get him to eat a tiny bit of higher carb food and a drop of karo syrup (I probably could have skipped the karo, but was panicking that he had already eaten too much low carb food before I tested him and might not take any more food). He stabilized around 100 afterwards.
For tonight I might skip the shot or give half dose depending on his pre-shot value, I know he's been way sensitive to insulin after a mild hypo event in the past and I worry about nighttime issues. We will continue checking pre-shot as much as possible.

I know that it is possible to see higher values because of stress. In this case, I assume the lower values might be because he's cranky and doesn't like the cone (who does?) so he might be snacking less.

However that leads to the part that I struggle with: is his dose right for him if his doing well on it is dependent on him snacking through the day? Should he be on a lower dose or is this normal?

He had his fructosamine tested last week and got 430, which I understand is not ideal but I assume also not too bad all things considered.
 
I would drop the dose to 1 unit immediately and I will tag @Suzanne & Darcy as she is a vetsulin user.
Amy time the BG drops under 90 you need to reduce the dose. Dropping to 55 on the alphatrak meter is much too low and requires a larger reduction. See what Suzanne thinks. She may want a larger reduction.
 
I agree with Bron. I definitely would drop his dose to 1 unit right away and any time he drops below 90 you should reduce the dose by .25 units (regardless if he has high preshot numbers because it is the nadir we are looking at.) I agree with you that you do need to get a preshot BG before every single shot. If you don't do this, then you will not know if it is safe to give the whole dose, if you need to reduce the dose, or if you should not give insulin at all. Hang in there. I understand how tiring it is to care for several animals with health conditions. With a diabetic cat on insulin, you can never be too cautious or "paranoid." Don't rely on somebody else who is not there on the spot to tell you that "it will be okay." The numbers will tell you if things are okay or not. I hope that your biopsy results will be okay and that it won't be anything serious. I know the waiting is hard.
 
You are feeding him at least 30 minutes before giving his shot, right? I just thought I would ask this since I don't know. Also, are you giving snacks during the cycle? This is important to help stabilize BG. I would give some of his LC wet food at +2, possible also +3 and +4, depending on how the numbers do once you start the snacking routine (if you aren't already doing this.) And yes, all cats hate the cone, don't they. It is the kind that you can remove? I have a velcro one and I will take it off for them to eat and then put it back on. This would be harder to do with the ones that tie on like the vets give you. I ordered my velco ones from Amazon. I had to try several sizes before I got it right.
 
Thank you so much for the responses and advice! Yes, we feed him before the dose. He is a snacker, will not eat a lot of food in one sitting, but usually he goes back to his leftovers after an hour or two. He also has Dr Elsey's chicken dry available, I know it's not ideal to have dry but I struggle having him and my other cat eat enough with wet only (not for lack of trying). So right now the routine is:
Eat before dose > snacks available for self-service > different wet food served around +3/+4. Based on your feedback, it sounds like it would be best to serve him food at +2 to make sure he eats something instead of relying on him self-serving.

As for the cone - yes, they are all easily removable thankfully. I do take the cone off when feeding him, but I think having it on might be impacting his regular grazing. I had got him a nice pillowy one that he seems completely fine with, but I found out this morning that he can still somehow reach his back leg even with 4 inches of pillow around his head - so we had put him back on the other cone (which is also flexible but not pillow-soft and more annoying to him) and that must have upset him :( Poor boy has good reasons to be cranky.

If I do give him a dose tonight, I will go with lower than 1 to take into account for any extra insulin sensitivity after his hypo episode, and then try 1 unit once he's back to his normal.

Thank you again!! Depending on how things go tonight I might ask for more advice. I really appreciate the help :)
 
I would definitely try to make sure he eats something at +2, rather than relying on his snacking. Hopefully he can get out of the cone next week? Good luck tonight.
 
I would definitely try to make sure he eats something at +2, rather than relying on his snacking. Hopefully he can get out of the cone next week? Good luck tonight.
Thank you! He is supposed to keep him for two weeks, so we have until May 3rd to go :( But to be honest it was stupid of me to not prompt him to eat more often in this situation.
 
Don’t be surprised if he is high tomorrow morning. It looks like he began a bounce after the low green today. I’m not sure how quickly he clears bounces at this point since we don’t have a lot of data yet. Bounces can last up to 6 cycles in some cats, but I see a lot of cats clear them more quickly.
 
Don’t be surprised if he is high tomorrow morning. It looks like he began a bounce after the low green today. I’m not sure how quickly he clears bounces at this point since we don’t have a lot of data yet. Bounces can last up to 6 cycles in some cats, but I see a lot of cats clear them more quickly.
Thank you again!! I plan on going with 1 unit moving forward, but this morning I just gave 0.75 because I was worried he might be still sensitive after his low yesterday, and we also had a different vet appointment right around his nadir time so I didn't want to take any risks while I wouldn't be immediately around to monitor. Surprisingly, his values this morning were not much higher than what we were seeing with 1.5U before his two recent drops under 90. Will be interesting to see how he is doing for the PM shot.
 
Right now we are still at 0.75 because he started messing with his stitches and we had to go back to a stricter cone schedule so he has been cranky. He is trying to run away from ear poking, which he wasn't doing before D: So I've just been checking pre-shot and nadir. But his values were surprisingly good on half of his previous dose (265 pre-shot, 192 +4). Definitely not going to go back to a dose higher than 1 for the time being.
 
Right now we are still at 0.75 because he started messing with his stitches and we had to go back to a stricter cone schedule so he has been cranky. He is trying to run away from ear poking, which he wasn't doing before D: So I've just been checking pre-shot and nadir. But his values were surprisingly good on half of his previous dose (265 pre-shot, 192 +4). Definitely not going to go back to a dose higher than 1 for the time being.
Sorry about the stitches and the crankiness! I think it’s a good idea to stay with the .75 for now. He has had a few blues that you’ve recorded. Good. Later you can tweak things when he’s feeling better and hopefully get your vet on Board with switching him to a more gentle longer lasting insulin.
 
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