Vet suggests not to treat diabetic cat???

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Vyktors Mum

Vyktors Mum

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Vyktorpuss (aged 15) was diagnosed with diabetes (based on urine test only) 2 weeks ago. His only symptoms are drinking a lot , increased urination and slightly increased appetite. Over the last couple of weeks since diagnosis his water intake has continued to increase. I also weighed him sine then and note that he has put on 1/2 kilo.

Given his 'personality' (he turns into pyscho puss at the vet) the vet has said it is probably better not to treat him, that he thinks it likely that there are many undiagnosed diabetic cats running around and that it is possible that old age will get him before the diabetes does. However, I think his idea of old and mine might be a bit different since he has been telling me how old Vyktor is since he was about 11 (when I first started taking him there) while I was barely conceding that he was middle aged at this point.

I note that Vyktor has been eating Fancy Feast for the past four years and even before that ate canned food as opposed to dry as he had urine crystal problems as a young fella. He has been getting a few pieces of dry food a day for the last couple of years to help with his teeth but I have stopped that now. The only other potential diet adjustment would be to change his arthritis powder which is sweetened with 'low GI frustose'.

Does not treating sound like a reasonable approach? This would mean finishing things for him when/if the diabetes starts to cause him trouble and I wonder if this really could be years so that old age (I am thinking 20's) might catch up with him first or if the vet was just saying that to make me feel better or because he thinks Vyktor is old already or maybe because he just doesn't know. Does anyone have experience with not treating?
 
You will want to treat your cat.
My vet thinks 11 is senior, too :roll: My vet has never had a client that tests their cat at home.
My vet, although younger than me, seems very old fashioned and out of date wih the times.
 
Look at the top section - for Binky's list and buy the lowest carbohydrate foods. Only you know if you can test kitty? The first week is usually a bit rough, but treats and patience conquers all. My diabetic kitty is easier to treat than the 2 hyperthyroid, although they are improving - treats, treats, treats.
 
Please dont think 11 is tooo old, hello.... ohmygod_smile
My Civvie Slappy is 15 almost 16 and is doing Great for her age...little bit of thyroid problem but her senior panel of blood work from July was good.
Test Vyktor at home...lots and lots of tips, and tries thru this site to help with that and some youtube vids as well.
The food list that was already suggested lists all the lower carb food he will get to choose from.. Lots of low/no carb treats for him during testing and just cuz he is a goood boy.
Get a good insulin that will last in his little system.
Take the advice from HERE, read, ask and learn and I just bet that boy will be with you for a long long time...
This is the BEST place to be if you have a sugar baby.
BTW............WELCOME TO YOU BOTH
Furry hugs your way for the day!
 
Vyktors Mum said:
Vyktorpuss (aged 15) was diagnosed with diabetes (based on urine test only) 2 weeks ago. His only symptoms are drinking a lot , increased urination and slightly increased appetite. Over the last couple of weeks since diagnosis his water intake has continued to increase. I also weighed him sine then and note that he has put on 1/2 kilo.

Given his 'personality' (he turns into pyscho puss at the vet) the vet has said it is probably better not to treat him, that he thinks it likely that there are many undiagnosed diabetic cats running around and that it is possible that old age will get him before the diabetes does. However, I think his idea of old and mine might be a bit different since he has been telling me how old Vyktor is since he was about 11 (when I first started taking him there) while I was barely conceding that he was middle aged at this point.

I note that Vyktor has been eating Fancy Feast for the past four years and even before that ate canned food as opposed to dry as he had urine crystal problems as a young fella. He has been getting a few pieces of dry food a day for the last couple of years to help with his teeth but I have stopped that now. The only other potential diet adjustment would be to change his arthritis powder which is sweetened with 'low GI frustose'.

Does not treating sound like a reasonable approach? This would mean finishing things for him when/if the diabetes starts to cause him trouble and I wonder if this really could be years so that old age (I am thinking 20's) might catch up with him first or if the vet was just saying that to make me feel better or because he thinks Vyktor is old already or maybe because he just doesn't know. Does anyone have experience with not treating?
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I can't believe a vet would say do not treat a diabetic cat; you are committing your cat to a painful death.

You can get a blood glucose meter, test strips and lancets at the pharmacy and test your cat, to see how high his numbers are. There are tons of youtube videos and everyone here can help you with testing.... you are just poking the tip of the ear and drawing that drop of blood up the test strip you put on your meter. Please post the numbers you get from testing, and if you have any trouble at all with testing, people have all sorts of tips for you to get the test done.
Testing on cat’s ear

Then cut out all items with any kind of sweeteners - get unsweetened alternatives. I have 2 diabetics and had my vet mix their pain meds in a sugar free suspension.... nice and chicken flavored so they love their meds now.

Stick to the Fancy Feast pate flavors, and cut out any gravy or grilled flavors.

Tell your vet you have numbers and want to treat the diabetes. A good insulin is lantus, levemir or prozinc.
If your vet refuses, get a new vet.
 
agree. the vet is not right about treatment. just because kitty doesn't like his clinic doesn't mean kitty can't get some help with his diabetes.

how is kitty at home? not so psychotic? can you handle him ok? if so, i'd suggest getting a script from the vet for the insulin, buy a glucose meter, and get going on treatment. fwiw, my diabetic bites me as much as she does her food and i still treat her, have been for the last 5 years. and she goes to the vet once a year on average just for her checkups so it's doable without trucking kitty to clinichell if they refuse to be a good patient for the crazy man :-)

fwiw, while 15 is getting up there, it is by no means time to give up on them. i have 3 17 year olds in my house and get this, the blind one with a perinephric cyst chases my fiance around until he gets his treats every morning and night. blind! LOL!!

(on a side note, if you get a script for lantus, make sure to have the vet right it out for the solostar pens. that is more economical and will last you longer, thus longer before kitty may have to trek off to clinichell :-) )
 
my vet suggested that I didn't have to treat my cat also, that he would do fine for at least a year or two and that at 12-13 he was senior. I thought Cello had no other symptoms than the increased urination/drinking..... he seemed like "himself". Well first I mentioned this to a diabetic friend who was HORRIFIED. she said that when she is "high" and being high is the only thing that was cause obvious increased drinking/urination that she feels terrible, so probably the cat feels terrible aslo, they are stoic so it's hard to say. However I decided to treat cello, it took less than a month to get him regulated (he is still getting insulin) but he is drinking/peeing normally AND is like a new cat, I thought his behaviour hadn't changed but I guess it happened slowly so it had. He has so much energy and is so much happier.

I would at least try, if it is absolutely impossible then at least you know you did what you could...... you'd be suprised at how good they are being treated in their own environment
 
Basically by telling you that he is committing animal cruelty because an untreated diabetic is going to starve to death. I would be running to a new vet ASAP if you have a choice.
Many cats that are fractious do ok with the testing shot routine because they know it makes them feel better
Yes there are cats that have not cooperated but you won't know until you try. And about age, check out th posts about the 20 yr plus kitties! My 23 yr old isn't diabetic but my diabetic Merlyn passed away com his heart condition at 19.
We will be here for you!!!!!
 
I was thinking it was animal cruelty as well, and where did this vet get his license. I thought they were supposed to care for animals.
I would definitely seek out a different vet.
 
For clarity/correctness, the caretaker stated:" Vyktorpuss (aged 15)". Vyktorpuss was firs seen by the vet when he was 11.

As other have said, 15 is not too old to treat. My Lightning was 16 this year when he was diagnosed this year.
 
Vyktor's Mom,

How old is your vet? Ask him what he would think if he went to the doctor, and the doc said "Hey, bad news, you've got diabetes. But it isn't worth my giving you a prescription for insulin because hell, you're going to die anyway, right?" I'm guessing he'd ask for a 2nd opinion.

Vyktor's not a spring chicken at 15, but kitties can live past 20. I've had one that made it to 19, and another that made it to 20.
So he could have 5 or more years at least. He will not, however, live five more years as an untreated diabetic. Depending upon how bad it progresses, he might not make 5 months or even 5 weeks.
My kitty, Bob, showed symptoms for about 2 months before I had a clue, and brought him in to the vet. He's 11. He was diagnosed, but before I even got the insulin in the mail, he developed complications (DKA) and if I hadn't brought him to the vet that day, he probably wouldn't have made it one more day. He ended up in ER care for three days.
Tonight (6 months later), he's curled up at my feet purring as I type this. He hasn't needed insulin since mid-July. Biggest reason? My vet insisted on home testing, low-carb food, and insulin. I had no idea how I could manage that, but I did. He wasn't a bad patient, but I don't imagine any kitty is really thrilled about having the person he trusts most in the world suddenly turn into the guy that makes his ears bleed all the time and pokes needles into him. He wasn't too happy with me for a couple days, and then he figured out that getting stuck with sharp things meant he was getting a special treat a half dozen times a day (fresh boiled shrimp), and all of a sudden, after the pokes, he started feeling better. Even though he isn't needing insulin anymore, I still test his blood glucose 3 or 4 times a month, just to be sure (it makes ME feel better knowing he's still okay - he already knows he is). What is really incredible is that as soon as Bob hears the zipper open on the meter case, no matter where he is in the house, he comes running to me, lays down, purrs, and I can almost hear him say "Yes! Shrimp Time!!!!). He lays there, lets me poke his ear, purring the whole time, and he won't get up from the floor till I do. Then he starts demanding his reward. I look down at the meter (still dreading that the number will be illogically high), see that beautiful "62" or so, and Bob "says"..... "yeah, well no crap dad. I'm good to go.....now where's that damn shrimp?"

Point is, kitties learn, more quickly than humans do, that getting treated for diabetes is a whole helluva lot better than feeling like crap. You (assuming you decide to take that leap of faith and trust that YOU CAN DO THIS) will be totally amazed at how easy it is to manage diabetes after the terribly overwhelming first few days. What you really need to realize is that now that you have posted on FDMB, no matter how unsupportive your vet is, you have just found the support of literally hundreds of people who know infinitely more about feline diabetes than that guy you are paying to tell you "eh, don't worry about it, he's old anyways....", and all we want to do is help you deal with this. Diabetes is NOT a death sentence. It's a disease, it can be managed, and Vyktor could even get to where Bob and thousands of other cats have gotten - over it.

Please let us help,
Carl and Bob in SC
 
Of course it is the grilled Fancy Feast varieties that he likes and has been eating! I am in Australia so am having trouble identifying suitable food from Blinkys list so thanks for the tip about the pate flavours we do have a couple of those here and Vyktor will just have to suck it up.

Do you think it is very urgent to try and get a reading or is it okay to order the meter over the internet and wait for its arrival? It is much much cheaper over the internet from the US but if it is urgent I can see what the pharmacy has tomorrow, hopefully at least the will have the type of have my eye on (FreeStyle Lite - with the smallest amount of blood necessary!). I don't think you will be able to help me with the numbers though, unless you know a way to convert them. Apparently the US and Australia measure differently mg/dL and mmol/L respectively.
 
Oh we know how to convert those numbers as we have member's literally all over the world. To convert them you simply multiply you number by 18 and that give you the number we use in the US.

As far as getting a reading right away you haven't started him on insulin yet, correct? If not then I think you would be safe to wait until a meter can arrive off the internet. It only really becomes critical once you are treating with insulin. However, I would pop over to the pharmacy and pick up ketosticks while you wait and start testing his urine for ketones. as these can be potentically life threatening.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
As far as getting a reading right away you haven't started him on insulin yet, correct?

Correct no insulin yet, I will get the ketosticks tomorrow.

Boy am I glad I found this Forum you guys are so helpful I definitely wouldn't have the confidence to be giving all this a try without you!
Click to expand...
 
You are now in the best place that you never wanted to be, but are so blessed to have found. :-D

Just one other question....what do you call you? We are kind of first name folks around here... :lol:

By the way I have two diabetic cats...Maxwell who just turned 13 and Musette that just turned 12, I adopted them both knowing full well that they were diabetic, in fact that was the reason I adopted them. :-D Neither of them have been to my vet as a patience yet because there has just been no reason to take them, I manage their diabetes at home with the advice and support of the folks on this board. Maxwell just celebrated his first year off insulin, although Musette at least at the moment is still insulin dependent, but they are both still very healthy and happy cats, and have a wonderful time playing with my other 11 non-diabetic cats. :-D

And as far as 15 being old, I better not say that to my Onyx, today he turns 17 and last year went missing for 10 months, went through a winter with minus 22 below weather and then a summer of over 100 degrees, and as his name suggests is as black as night. Yet he came home to us again, without a strand of fur out of place, and other than having his food allergies in flare up ( he is allergic to dry food) he was in perfect health. Right now he is chasing my two 18 month olds through the house...lol

Mel, Maxwelll, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
You might want to make sure whatever meter you buy has strips available at your local pharmacy. You never know when you might need to pick extra strips up in a hurry.
 
If you are in Melbourne I can help you. Or if you want to talk on the phone about it I'm happy to send you my number privately. I've been looking after my diabetic cat since june 2010.

Marilyn
 
Thank you so much everybody. I am located in Perth Western Australia and my name is Serryn.

I decided that having made the decision to try and test that there was no time like the present. I figured I was only going to get more and more nervous about it the longer I waited so have purchased a Freestyle Lite meter today. I have tested myself and was pleased to discover that a) my blood glucose is normal and b) it didn't hurt.

Vyktor is okay with the meter being rubbed over his head and the lance thing being clicked in his ear and he let me have two tries to prick him before deciding that was enough for now. He was very pleased if not somewhat surprised to find himself rewarded with some bonito flakes which he has not met before.

I am pretty sure I did prick him at least the second time but I couldn't see any blood through his furry black ears. I have turned the meter up a notch and will try again later, when he's nice and sleepy again.

I also got the ketosticks and managed to grab a sample from Vyktor midstream with a spoon and no complaints (very pleased with myself), sugar levels were off the chart and trace ketones present. Are trace ketones a problem, i.e. start insulin immediately rather than wait and see what we can do with food? (I have not been involved in forums before should I make a new post for a new query like this?)

I'm still having some issues working out which foods available in Australia are okay for him so when I bought food for him today I pretty much just avoided anything that said it contained any cereal or plant products and have started emailing those companies to ask about the as fed carbohydrate calorie percentage in their foods (hopefully I got that right!). Is just avoiding cat food with cereals and plant foods okay in itself?

Last night and today he was given a Whiskas loaf variety to eat. Interestingly his water consumption decreased significantly today - coincidence?
 
So excited I got his first test done!!! Not sure how I'm going to go trying to get him at specific times rather than waiting for him to be lazing but I got the first one!!!

He is a 9.3 which x 18 = 167.4 in American speak.

Don't know what that means but I got it!!!

Not sure I quite got the recommended place in his ear, I went for a non furry bit on the inside. Does it matter where in the ear it comes from? Someone suggested to me that taking blood from a cats ear can lead to hematomas...
 
A 9.3 without insulin is a fabulous number! You may be able to get his sugars down with food alone- this is quite exciting.

After the poke, just gently hold the area between your finger and thumb, applying light pressure. This should prevent excessive bruising. And the inside of the ear is just fine - a lot of people with black cats do that because it's just easier.

Please try for more spot checks. That BG is very encouraging (it's only slightly elevated, so you may have caught this very very quickly!)

Welcome to Club Vampyre!
 
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