urine in litter sounds like pop rocks

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jose and tracy

jose and tracy

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my cat was diagnosed in the summer of 2006. she started receiving 3 units/day. & that has worked until just recently. she started drinking & urinating excessively. so she went to 5 units/twice/day. & per the vet's instructions she was finally @ 10 units/twice/day. that sounded pretty extreme, but we were following the vet's guidelines. & then she went into a coma (w/convulsions) @ 2am. lucky i even found her. the vet said to put her back to 8/twice/day. so this is an ongoing battle, but we are working on it. I have never tested her @ home, but realize now that will be necessary. so, for now, my questions are these:

1. is it normal that she LOVES karo? or is she telling me something?
2. when she gets out of the litter box sometimes the litter is sizzling. it sounds like pop rocks or the fizz sound when you open a carbonated soda. the vet said this was probably something wrong with the litter. but after reading about the keotene ( which i really don't understand yet), i was wondering if that could be it. it has been occurring for several months off & on and i have gone through countless bags of litter. has anyone experienced this?

thanks for any guidance. confused_cat
 
The fizzy urine is a new one for me, but maybe someone else will have an idea for you.

You are right. You have to start hometesting now. 8 units is a lot of insulin and if she has hypoed, it is time for you to take charge. Can we help you learn how to hometest?

I think lots of cats like sugar so liking Karo may not be unusual. We want to get her to a good safe dose so Karo isn't ever needed.

What kind of food do you feed her?
 
what type of insulin are you using?
What type of food are you giving her?
Do you need help home testing?

What was the reason that you went up to 10 units?
How often are you giving insulin?

I ask these questions as all this information will help us help you.

It sounds like she is getting way too much insulin and the fact that she is looking for sugar (karo) to me tells me that she is trying to do what she can to counterbalance the amount of insulin you are giving her.

Around here, we tell everyone to start at 1 unit or even 1/2 unit. You can always increase the amount over time. This is the safe way, with home testing on board to administer insulin.

we also recommend using low carb wet food. No prescription and no dry food. However, if you are currently using these foods, you probably should continue until you reduce the insulin dose drastically and start home testing. As you don't want cause another hypo situation.

Here is part of what I usually say to newbies:

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.
 
i almost cried when i read your responses! such a relief to find information and understanding.

jose is on pro zinc - my vet said it was the only insulin available. i now know differently and will investigate.

i feed her horribly. when she was first diagnosed, the vet sent me home with instructions of 3 units a day. i did no further investigation. she eats all dry food & gets all the kitty treats she wants. horrible mistake. she is a very big kitty - weighing 25lb before this, she now weighs 21lb. i give her "spa treatments" twice a day - she rolls onto her back, puts her feet in the air, i sprinkle corn starch, comb out. she is just so agreeable! i am sure the blood testing will be fine. when i get that down, i will start to tweek her food & obviously her insulin is being adjusted.

in june of this year we noticed excessive thirst & urination had returned. the vet said to up her to 4/day, wait a week (no change) 5/day, wait a week (no change) 3/twice/day. and then it was gradually ratcheted up until she was receiving 10/twice/day. & she has lost weight & continued to drink and urinate excessively. i just read today about the somogyi rebound.

i feel horrible that i have allowed her to get to this stage, but now feel positive that i will be able to help her. what a wonderful forum! thanks again!
 
That noise you hear may be the sound of a very full bladder excreting lots, and lots, and lots of urine very, very rapidly - think pressure hose. Spitzer pees like that too.

I encourage you to focus on the testing first, before making lots of other changes. That will let you see how she is handling things.

Because you are reducing the insulin dose, per your vet, its a good idea to pick up some urine test strips, such as ketodiastix (or generic) to test the urine for ketones. If the test strip is ever positive, its time to contact the vet. If the test strip color is darker than the 1st color on the test strip (trace), you may be heading into ketoacidosis and need to contact a vet asap. Also, until you get the blood testing going well, urine testing shows what was happening a couple hours previously, so it is somewhat helpful for monitoring control, along with monitoring thirst, appetite, and urination habits.

You say she is a very large cat, so take a look at the insulin sub-forum for acromegaly. While she might be in Somagyi rebound, it is also possible that she might have acromegaly, especially if she is not a large cat breed, such as Maine Coon.

Also, please don't beat yourself up - cats are notoriously good at hiding any illness!
 
HI!!!
OK, firstly and most importantly.....what can we call you besides "Jose's Mom" or "Jose's Dad"? :smile:

Welcome to the best place in the world for you to be in order to understand and treat your "sugarkitty", Jose.

You've already gotten some of your questions answered, and some really good advice, so I won't repeat what others have said. Just wanted to address a couple of points -

1 - Don't blame yourself! Many (most probably) of us were in exactly the same boat you find yourself in. Speaking for myself, I didn't even know cats could have diabetes when the vet told me that Bob did this past May. And at first I thought "WHAT HAVE I DONE????". I didn't "do" anything. Bob is one of a couple dozen kitties I've been owned by over the past 30 years. Bob ate exactly what every other one of them ate their entire lives. Mostly dry food, left out all day (and usually the store brand generic bags because none of them liked the really good brands they sell at the grocery store). They all got a little canned food daily, but mostly just ate as much dry as I'd put into their bottomless food bowls. And Bob was the first kitty I have ever had who developed Diabetes. That's probably just dumb luck, but "only" 1 in 400 cats gets it from what I read recently. It just "happens". Yes, his diet, and his obesity were a large part of the cause, but I'd had plenty of other fat cats eating crappy food too.
So, I was guilty of only one thing, in my opinion. I was "ignorant". And nothing is wrong with being ignorant. As long as when you discover that ignorance, you do something about it. So I did. I found this place, and I read and read and read and then I read some more. I asked a few questions, got lots of answers, great advice, and made many new friends over the past 6 months. Now I'm not ignorant anymore (at least not about feline diabetes :lol: ).
Well, you've done the same thing, haven't you? You found us, you're reading, asking questions, learning, and you're going to make many friends here. So kudos to you! Don't blame yourself anymore!

Insulin - Prozinc. Nothing "wrong" with it. Bob was on PZI for ten weeks, and he went off it in July. No shots since, and now he's a "diet controlled diabetic". Prozinc and PZI are not exactly the same, but close. There are other insulins that are just as good or better, but it depends on lots of things. The "biggies" are that Every Cat Is Different - ECID - and what works for one may not work for another. Prozinc can work, or maybe Lantus or Levimer would work better. The major issue seems to be that Jose's dose is huge (may or may not be for good reasons), and it sounds like at first, the vet told you to shoot just once a day, and now you are shooting twice a day? Twice a day is "correct". Once a day is not. That goes for all three of the insulins I've mentioned. Two shots per day, 12 hours apart is what the vet should have told you from day one. He also raised the doses too much and too quickly between increases. Now that you have come here and realized that there have been problems with the doses, that will quickly be fixed. Lots of us can help you with that once you start home testing, which is the next step you need to learn in this dance.

Then we can worry about food, and ketones, and all sorts of other things that may or may not come up.

So take a few deep breaths. Ask questions, read all the super advice we've already thrown at you, and don't even try to soak it ALL in overnight! You're here, we want to help you and Jose with this, and from here on out, it will get easier.

Carl
 
Allow yourself a few minutes to cry. Then please get over it and let's move forward. We all were in all types of situations when we found this board.

Maui for example, I was told by the vet (now former) that I had to keep her at the vet for at least one week until they regulated her. I dropped her off, found this board and immediately got responses from the people telling me this is nuts and wanting me to ask the vet all kinds of questions. Well, I did and learned that the vet (due to their schedule) gave Maui her first shot of insulin at 9 am (no testing done) and then were going to give the second shot at 4 pm so they could get on with closing for the day. Again, no testing done during the day and no test before the shot.

Needless to say the people on this board freaked out and I told them no and brought her home. I was told by the vet that if I didn't return her daily for her testing and injections then the vet refused to treat her as she didn't want to be sued for wrong doing.

There were members close by and one in particular about 10 minutes away, who I connected with and went over to her house for lessons.

And Maui was a dry food cat, who never had interest in wet food. I thought I was doing good, until I learned from here that I wasn't.

So, see we didn't all start out knowing what we now know. So you are allowed 10 even 15 minutes of guilt and giving yourself a pity party and then I want you to take a deep breath and move forward. You will now learn all you need to take care of Jose.

What I am not understanding is how your vet decided on upping the dose without any testing. That is not how to determine the dose. But at least now we know how you got to 10 units and can help you get Jose regulated.

And prozinc is a decent insulin. I had one of the members newly diagnosed cat for a month last summer and he was on prozinc. It was my first experience with the insulin and I learned (with the help of this board) a lot about how it worked for that cat.

It also turned out that cat was super carb sensitive and I could adjust his (BG) blood glucose levels by the food I served.

To make it easier, I numbered all the canned foods based on the carb %, so I didn't have to think about what can was what. If I wanted him to stay higher because I was going to work, I gave him anything from 4-7% carbs. When I was home, I could give him lower.

So, let's do this one step at a time and we will do everything we can to guide you.

1) you have a good insulin, we just need to restart the dose at 1 unit
2) sounds like you wont' have a problem home testing - so let's get you a meter and strips - if you have a walmart nearby, you can pick up the Relion brand - it's inexpensive and does a decent job - just get one that requires small amount of blood
3) while there pick up the following:
- box of lancets - 28 or higher gauge
- ketostix or ketodiastix - found in the diabetes section
- petroleum jelly
- neosporon with pain relief (or any brand)
- candy or chocolate to treat yourself!

the petroleum jelly and neosporon are used to help the blood bead up and to prevent bruising of ears respectively.

What color are your cat's ears? If they are black or a dark color - get a good flashlight that you can use as a spotlight so you can see where you are poking.

So, let's get this together and then we will address the rest.

Oh and where are located? there may be members close by who can provide in-person support.
 
yes, i am done with the guilt, but my tears were from excitement! now that i have found this community, i feel that i am in charge & with good resources. i will pick up the glucose test kit tomorrow & get my girl under control. i am actually more excited than nervous about checking her.

re: acromegaly. she is just fat. one of her nicknames is bigcountry.

re: the sizzling urine - this happens after she has left the box. the least of my worries apparently, so will shelf that question for now.

I still don't understand how she is still losing weight, drinking & urinating excessively - even when she was at 10/2x/day.

thanks for all of your help! & we live @ possum kingdom lake, 1-1/2 from ft worth.
 
jose said:
i almost cried when i read your responses! such a relief to find information and understanding.

jose is on pro zinc - my vet said it was the only insulin available. i now know differently and will investigate.

i feed her horribly. when she was first diagnosed, the vet sent me home with instructions of 3 units a day. i did no further investigation. she eats all dry food & gets all the kitty treats she wants. horrible mistake. she is a very big kitty - weighing 25lb before this, she now weighs 21lb. i give her "spa treatments" twice a day - she rolls onto her back, puts her feet in the air, i sprinkle corn starch, comb out. she is just so agreeable! i am sure the blood testing will be fine. when i get that down, i will start to tweek her food & obviously her insulin is being adjusted.

in june of this year we noticed excessive thirst & urination had returned. the vet said to up her to 4/day, wait a week (no change) 5/day, wait a week (no change) 3/twice/day. and then it was gradually ratcheted up until she was receiving 10/twice/day. & she has lost weight & continued to drink and urinate excessively. i just read today about the somogyi rebound.

i feel horrible that i have allowed her to get to this stage, but now feel positive that i will be able to help her. what a wonderful forum! thanks again!
Click to expand...

Re the spa treatments - wouldn't corn starch on Jose's coat be a bad idea? It seems logical to think she'd be ingesting a lot of carbs when grooming?
 
Welcome Jose's Mom and extra sweet Jose!

Oh PK is a beautiful lake...Hell's Gate is the bestest swimming and skiing place ever! Haven't been there in years tho'....

If Jose is indeed doing that 'high power' pee, what you're probably hearing are the bubbles popping as it's breaking down. KT does that too - if I look right after he moves, the edges are just full of bubbles....sounds wierd.
 
Hi Jose's Mom,
don't want you to worry about the urine making popping sounds but
if you are using a litter that has baking soda it will make those sounds when the pee hits the litter.
It thrills me to read all the help you are getting from folks on this board.
They actually saved Smokie's life and she is now diet controlled! :-D
 
not going to worry about the litter anymore!

re: cornstarch & spa treatments. i only give her the "spa treatments" because she is too big to clean herself. the cornstarch is applied to her bottom. before i got tuned into what was going on we ended up at the vet w/diaper rash. thankfully we haven't had that issue in several years! thanks for your concern, though!
 
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