Update: Websters OK for now

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Websterthecat

Member Since 2014
Okay.

Webster came out of the hospital on Saturday due to DKA.

He seemed to be doing alright (with the exception of all the crazy numbers that I have been seeing).

Today his appetite has diminished and BG levels dropped really fast after insulin. He has been laying on the bed sleeping for several hours now and seems very sleepy yet still with it. His eyes look heavy.

I checked his skin for elasticity and its not bouncing back fast, indicating dehydration.

I've been checking for ketones for the past 3 days and the test came back negative. I have not been able to get a sample from him today as he has not gone.

I'm afraid that the Ketones might be coming back. Next comes vomiting and hiding under the bed and out of it.

Please help me decide what to do. Should I force feed him water down food to help hydrate him and get some food in his system? If so how much? Also, his insulin is due in 1.5 hours. I don't think that I will be giving it to him due to low numbers. Please advise.

I really don't want to take him to the hospital unless necessary. Last week it cost me over $700 plus another $600 in supplies. However, if hospitalization is what he needs then I'll do it.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

Personally, when my Cedric went DKA, I spent over $3000, as he was there for about 3 days. If it was me, I would probably take him in. I learned how to give Cedric Sub-q fluids, he might need that and you aren't prepared for that right now.

that's just my opinion if I was in your shoes. good luck.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

Is there any change in Webster--is he still not eating or drinking, acting nauseated? You know your kitty better than any of us do. FWIW, I tend to error on the side of caution but I would probably bring him into the vet as well, given his bout with DKA, that is nothing to fool with! I am not a vet, but that's my opinion.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

Tiger and Ruth said:
Is there any change in Webster--is he still not eating or drinking, acting nauseated? You know your kitty better than any of us do. FWIW, I tend to error on the side of caution but I would probably bring him into the vet as well, given his bout with DKA, that is nothing to fool with! I am not a vet, but that's my opinion.
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Not really touching his food much. Not acting nauseated yet but I'm afraid that's going to happen.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

Sorry, I would head to the ER. If done early enough, perhaps, all he'll need is SQ fluids. If you do go, don't omit to mention the generous use of DE. Webster might have breathed in its powder. Take care of both of you, Sophie
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

sophie said:
Sorry, I would head to the ER. If done early enough, perhaps, all he'll need is SQ fluids. If you do go, don't omit to mention the generous use of DE. Webster might have breathed in its powder. Take care of both of you, Sophie
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I'm not sure if he's dehydrated. I noticed that when I pinched his skin near his belly (where it has been shaved for insulin injections) it doesn't bounce back very fast.

However, I just watched a Youtube video the show the scruff being pinched and bouncing back quickly. Right now his scruff does seem to bounce back.

BTW, he just tested negative for Ketones.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

That is a good thing he tested negative for ketones, however, if he still is not drinking water of his own accord, nor eating on his own, he may not be out of danger yet. I saw on the TR you are not going to shoot, which is safe, if he's not eating. As the others have said, he may just need subQ fluids, which will hydrate a cat in more effective way than simply giving the cat syringe feedings.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

Tiger and Ruth said:
That is a good thing he tested negative for ketones, however, if he still is not drinking water of his own accord, nor eating on his own, he may not be out of danger yet. I saw on the TR you are not going to shoot, which is safe, if he's not eating. As the others have said, he may just need subQ fluids, which will hydrate a cat in more effective way than simply giving the cat syringe feedings.
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I'm still not completely sure if he is dehydrated. When I pinch is scruff it bounces back pretty fast. When I pinch his side where the vet shaved, it doesn't bounce back so quickly.

For some reason he just perked up and started moving about the house. Do you think this has something to do with his climbing BG levels? His BG dropped off real fast this morning. Throughout the day he was very tired and just started moving about the house and was even asking for freeze dried chicken treats?

He drank a little water and then peed. But I'm not having any luck getting him interested in his new wet food or dry food. I'm going to leave it out and see if he nibbles on it.

I really don't want to rush him to the ER if not necessary. This last vet visit cost some bucks and I can imagine what a 24 hour clinic will cost. Not that I can put a price on my cat but I want to make the best decision financially, you know.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

A more sensitive test for dehydration:
Press a finger firmly on the cat’s gums, then remove. If the gums immediately pink back up, all is well. If the gums stay blanched white, the cat is dehydrated to some degree. Also, if the gums feel sticky or tacky (dry), the cat is probably dehydrated.

If she is dehydrated, and you've got an oral syringe (no needle), you might cautiously start giving small amounts of fluids as tolerated - perhaps 1 mL at a time.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

I would do what BJM suggested. To gently try giving water in a oral syringe this wil often help perk them up and may help overcome nausea. I sit my cat on a chair and then put the syringe on one side of his mouth pointing across to the other side (not down his throat) and gently squeeze the plunger. I find that remi just starts licking the water as it comes out in drops. You just need to be careful not to flood his mouth with water.

Did you get any antinausea medication from the vet? It may just be the drops in blood glucose and the change in food that has upset him but like the others have said if you think that there might be the risk of DKA take him to the vets.

When did he last pass a motion? And was it normal/hard or soft?
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

phlika29 said:
I would do what BJM suggested. To gently try giving water in a oral syringe this wil often help perk them up and may help overcome nausea. I sit my cat on a chair and then put the syringe on one side of his mouth pointing across to the other side (not down his throat) and gently squeeze the plunger. I find that remi just starts licking the water as it comes out in drops. You just need to be careful not to flood his mouth with water.

Did you get any antinausea medication from the vet? It may just be the drops in blood glucose and the change in food that has upset him but like the others have said if you think that there might be the risk of DKA take him to the vets.

When did he last pass a motion? And was it normal/hard or soft?
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He pooped overnight. Consistency this morning was soft yet firm.

He seems to have eaten a bit of food overnight (1/2+ cups of dry, a couple tablespoons of wet low carb). BG is @ 512 this morning @ +10.75.

Vet didn't give antinausea medication. He doesn't seem to be nauseous but it hard to tell.

There seemed to be a correlation between the prolonged time that hes spent yesterday below 100 and his energy levels. Once he rose into the 100's he perked right up?? This morning he is at 512 :o and active as ever.

As of last night he tested negative for ketones. I will continue to stalk him and watch his BG's today.

As for his hydration, I think he is okay. I may have over reacted yesterday when he was very lethargic.
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

It kind of takes them awhile to start remembering what it feels like to be back down in normal numbers again.

Since they become diabetic long before they let us see they are sick, their bodies get use to running in the 400+ range, then we add insulin and that starts bringing them down in normal numbers again and it just plain feels weird to them now. And a little sick

I tell people to think about it like this, you are very overweight and decide to go on a diet. When you first start on the diet and are weighing and measuring every bite of food you eat, you brain tells you after you have had a normal sized meal for a normal sized person that you've eaten enough, but no one has told your stomach that yet, so it pitches a hissy fit, it growls and rumbles and screams at you that your hungry. You may even feel tired, a little sick to your stomach and shaky because your stomach has gotten use to being loaded down with those 3 cheese burgers instead of 1 and 2 orders of large fries instead of 1 small order. But the longer you stay on that diet, the more your stomach adapts again to feeling full on a normal sized meal again.

Well our kitties go through a similar process, their body is now use to a lot of glucose in the blood stream so when we add insulin and bring those numbers down, they feel kind of crummy for a few days while their body relearns that this is what normal feels like. Once we keep giving insulin and they start spending more and more time in normal or at least lower numbers, then they start feeling better in the lower numbers and more like dog feces when they go high again. Make sense?

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Help. I might be headed to animal ER

MommaOfMuse said:
It kind of takes them awhile to start remembering what it feels like to be back down in normal numbers again.

Since they become diabetic long before they let us see they are sick, their bodies get use to running in the 400+ range, then we add insulin and that starts bringing them down in normal numbers again and it just plain feels weird to them now. And a little sick

I tell people to think about it like this, you are very overweight and decide to go on a diet. When you first start on the diet and are weighing and measuring every bite of food you eat, you brain tells you after you have had a normal sized meal for a normal sized person that you've eaten enough, but no one has told your stomach that yet, so it pitches a hissy fit, it growls and rumbles and screams at you that your hungry. You may even feel tired, a little sick to your stomach and shaky because your stomach has gotten use to being loaded down with those 3 cheese burgers instead of 1 and 2 orders of large fries instead of 1 small order. But the longer you stay on that diet, the more your stomach adapts again to feeling full on a normal sized meal again.

Well our kitties go through a similar process, their body is now use to a lot of glucose in the blood stream so when we add insulin and bring those numbers down, they feel kind of crummy for a few days while their body relearns that this is what normal feels like. Once we keep giving insulin and they start spending more and more time in normal or at least lower numbers, then they start feeling better in the lower numbers and more like dog feces when they go high again. Make sense?

Mel and The Fur Gang
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Makes perfect sense and I agree. I can see it in his eyes and actions when his numbers drop off so fast and stay low. Yesterday he just wanted to lay around and sleep. Today, so far he is not dropping as fast and seems to be quite active with a BG of 474.

I just wish that he would stop nose diving! It's really upsetting me and I'm losing sleep and my sanity over this.
 
It will taper off as he becomes use to using the insulin you are supplying. So far I've had 5 diabetics of my own and several fosters. (once my local no kill shelter figured out I had FD experience you can guess who gets the call to foster when one comes in...lol). They all go through that process, at first they dive like no tomorrow, then we tinker with the dose and get it dialed in and they level off and start bringing the entire cycle down. Until we think we have them all figured out and they go and change the rules again...lol.

A Letter From Your Cat If you haven't read this, I suggest you do and re-read it often in the next few days and weeks as you begin this journey..it helps and it will make you at least smile if not laugh..

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
It will taper off as he becomes use to using the insulin you are supplying. So far I've had 5 diabetics of my own and several fosters. (once my local no kill shelter figured out I had FD experience you can guess who gets the call to foster when one comes in...lol). They all go through that process, at first they dive like no tomorrow, then we tinker with the dose and get it dialed in and they level off and start bringing the entire cycle down. Until we think we have them all figured out and they go and change the rules again...lol.

A Letter From Your Cat If you haven't read this, I suggest you do and re-read it often in the next few days and weeks as you begin this journey..it helps and it will make you at least smile if not laugh..

Mel and The Fur Gang
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Thank you! Will check it out.
 
So glad to hear Webster is feeling better and eating at least- ouch on the red numbers though... As other have said, hopefully his liver will get used to being in normal numbers and stop throwing out all those nasty compensatory hormones glucagon, cortisol and epinephrine. I can just tell when that is happening to my Tiger, you can see she feels like crap! :roll:
One more thing, for your own peace of mind, if you haven't already, I would print out How To Deal With Low Numbers and other such pages with good advice, and also print out A Letter From Your Cat, it's a good one because that was all of us helicopter moms and dads! :-D Occasionally, this website goes down for no apparent reason, it hasn't done it lately, but when I tried to get back on line last night, it felt like the site was crashing. When my Tiger had her first low dive, this website was down but luckily someone had advised me to print out all the important papers and I was glad I did!
 
Tiger and Ruth said:
So glad to hear Webster is feeling better and eating at least- ouch on the red numbers though... As other have said, hopefully his liver will get used to being in normal numbers and stop throwing out all those nasty compensatory hormones glucagon, cortisol and epinephrine. I can just tell when that is happening to my Tiger, you can see she feels like crap! :roll:
One more thing, for your own peace of mind, if you haven't already, I would print out How To Deal With Low Numbers and other such pages with good advice, and also print out A Letter From Your Cat, it's a good one because that was all of us helicopter moms and dads! :-D Occasionally, this website goes down for no apparent reason, it hasn't done it lately, but when I tried to get back on line last night, it felt like the site was crashing. When my Tiger had her first low dive, this website was down but luckily someone had advised me to print out all the important papers and I was glad I did!
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Thank you. Have it printed are ready to go! On the fridge.
 
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