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donnahc

donnahc

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So I am gonna try to be fair here but just let you guys know exactly what my vet just told me over the phone so you know what’s up and explain why I have been a bit stressed.

I guess the two vets at the practice have discussed me and from what she said I am “kind of” on their naughty list, so that is why I couldn’t get the insulin yesterday,
but I’m welcome to make a third trip to get it now.

They don’t like that I have changed his doses if I get a low preshoot or changed after not staying with a dose for 7 days. Any of my low preshoots she said I should have shot my full dose. She told me Prozync is not made to do this.

She said I test too much and she only recommended the meter “in case the cat throws up at 8pm and you want to know what’s going on”. So she doesn’t want me to test before every shoot or in between, just occasionally or if i see a behavioral change. Tom just pointed out that this means we don’t have to give them a chart anymore since “we aren’t testing”. Good point.
I guess she thinks ignorance would be more bliss for me. Also I was told that they don’t fine tune doses in cats like in humans, that you just get to a dose and stick with it.

I also found interesting that she assumed by his numbers that he was still ravenous for food and drinking a lot. I told her that stopped the first week actually and that he plays and is active now and appears normal.

She told me his dose will prob be around 2.2 or so, which I tend to agree, maybe. I have been thinking we should raise Ashers dose a bit, but wanted to spend a bit of time at 2 to see what would happen.

I did start to cry a bit on the phone at the end when I felt she was being a bit mean, and then she couldn’t wait to get off the phone with me. So maybe that was good or bad, I don’t know. I am sure she thinks I am nutz but I don’t really care. I do need to keep them happy for emergencies, at least right now. She said we could talk about scheduling a dental anytime as long as behaviorally Asher was ok, like not drinking tons, etc. I was too freaked out by that point to do that and I said I’ll call about it.

So I dunno. Discuss. I feel like a wet dishrag...
 
For me, any business that has me in tears tells me it is time to find a new company to take my business to...even if it is a bit more inconvenient for me.

Remember, the vet works for you, not the other way around.

How far is Allentown? or Reading?
 
Half an hour to either small city.
40 mins to my Mom’s vet, whom I love.
And apparently there are a few other vets within 10 miles from here, but I don’t know anyone who goes to them.
I don’t know if I should stress the cats driving them that far. This vet is 3 miles up the road.
 
As I remember you don't have much choices for vets? I guess you could call your Mom's vet and see how they would treat and if they say the right stuff about the dental. Remember, you don't have to stress the kitties out with a long trip often if you get a FD vet who understands you are treating at home.

So, first, what a $#&%! I know she is threatened by your knowledge and success but you think she could be supportive.

Now that I have that out of the way, seems to me that you could play along. Tell her okay I will give the 2.2. Stop sharing your spreadsheet. She doesn't have to know how often you test or fine tune the dose. You really only need to see her when you need insulin, right? Or the odd emergency and the dental. (Which I know you are dreading but she did say all the right things about treatment for that. And if you go now, any insulin she gives would match your dose at home.)

You aren't doubting your treatment, are you? You know what would happen if you gave the regular dose on a low preshot, so you know that basically she doesn't know what she is talking about.

I am so sorry this happened to you, Donna. Will it help to know we love, support you and think you are doing a fantastic job? :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Half an hour to either small city.
40 mins to my Mom’s vet, whom I love.
Click to expand...
WELL worth the trip! I have vets who are closer but I travel farther to get vets who actually care about me and my cats. I can talk to them on the phone, via email or in person. If I am not comfortable with a line of treatment, we discuss it. They never just tell me "no" nor do they belittle me. Because we have such a good relationship, they trust me to treat my cats correctly. I have meds on hand to deal with flare-ups of Pancreatitis. I have SQ fluids. I have the ability to get more of whatever kind of insulin I'm using with nary a question on why I want another bottle (started on Lantus, went to ProZinc and now on Levemir). When I moved back and forth with ProZinc, the vets ony concern was that I had the right insulin syringes.

For me, having a good vet is absolutely worth a longer drive. If you have a vet you love, I'd say go. Build that relationship so that when a minor emergency comes up, you can talk to them on the phone and treat it with what you have on hand.

Best of luck!
 
I am definitely NOT doubting our treatment and what we have done so far. I am grateful for your support and advice. We are very happy with how Asher has improved.

I just always hope that things will iron out and people won’t be mean to one another. I don’t get it.

Tom and I will have to think about what we’re gonna do. We can make it work with this vet no doubt. We just have to tell her nothing basically and nod our heads to what she says.
I just don’t know that I have trust in her or the other vet in this practice if I tell them not to do something, will they listen to my wishes.

Ugh.

In the middle of building a set right now. I’ll be back in a bit. Just wanted to stop in and say thanks.

Thanks for letting me know I’m not nutz.
 
OMG what an itch-bay! angry(2)_cat

I'm so sorry you had to experience this Donna. It's hard enough to have a sick family member and learn how to take care of them - being ragged on by the doctor for trying to give the right treatment is beyond the pale!

I like the idea about cultivating a relationship with your mom's vet for FD treatment. Maybe just use this vet for the dental and everything else?

:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

drinking09
 
Sorry you're going through this. Vets can be the most amazing people in the world...or the most frustrating. Just know that you're doing the right things for Asher and that's what matters.
 
Most important hugs to you Donna!!! Asher is so very lucky to have you and Tom who are willing to be more proactive and go the extra mile with treatment. This leads to a healthier and happier Asher. Yeah! I'm with Sue on what the $%#! with regards to your vet (seriously!). You obviously have the data to show how well Asher is doing, so there's no need to be mean spirited when there are differences of opinion or withhold purchasing insulin.

I could tell my vet was giving me sidelong glances when I described how I was changing Max's diet and doses, but it always ended with Max is your cat and we want to help (by testing at the office to make sure you're not killing him ;-) ). I could also tell my vet was more "old school" and conservative in treatment, but they weren't against me doing more.

I'm with your thoughts and the others about possibly changing to a different vet like your mom's. Hopefully, after an initial visit and consult, you could do more over the phone since it's not close by. You could keep this one for emergencies. IMO, the change has less to do with the difference of opinion and more to do with the relationship and trust.
 
I struggled with my vet for a while too and then decided that basically I really like her.... for everything but diabetes, LOL. The thing to remember I think is that (from what I have heard), diabetes is covered in like 20 minutes of one class at vet school. Unless you have a specialist, they know it in a specific sort of way - you do curves, make decisions based on X and Y, change doses at these intervals, etc. What you see here is such a totally different approach, I really wouldn't expect most vets to be on board. Think of how much time we all spend on one cat - no WAY could most vets give that level of treatment to multiple cats and still carry on their regular practice. Once I realized all that, and realized that my vet isn't losing any sleep over what I do or what I don't do, she is just telling me her POV on it, and it's up to me to decide whether that is the treatment plan I want to follow or not.

The only thing that jumps out at me is the advice to shoot on lower PSs. I have not heard that so far with ProZinc, i.e. that you should shoot low. They do that with Lantus & Lev, but unless I am unaware, that is dangerous to do with ProZinc. I'd be curious to know what the manufacturer's recommend (but not curious enough to actually go check out their website, LOL!!!!). I mean, it seems like they would have a sort of protocol for vets to follow, and I assume it would be similar to that for PZI Vet (at which you DON'T shoot on low PSs).

Remember you hold the power here, though I know we all tend to feel like our vets hold the power. But really, we are the client, and paying them for a service. If they are mean, unsupportive, or whatnot, IMO it's out of place. It's like when you are a kid and the dentist yells at you for not doing a good job brushing. Once I was an adult (and had some experience with different dentists, some of whom never yelled, even if I NEVER flossed LOL!), I realized you just don't have to put up with that cr*p.

Now that said, if your vet is nearby and no others are, I would think it's worth maintaining some kind of relationship, if only for emergencies. I'd just do your own thing, and use their services when it suits you. I'd also do some research on the low PS thing, and if you can find something official (like from the manufacturer or another vet, I'd print that out and take that to her). Might help someone else's cat, who knows.
 
Thanks everyone. I truly appreciate all your comments and support. I still don’t know what I am going to do. I got that second bottle of insulin just in case I don’t go back there for awhile.

I have to say I really don’t like this woman as a person. She’s mean, not letting me buy insulin yesterday was just unprofessional I thought, and this is the third time she’s reprimanded me enough
to bring tears. The ONLY advantage to this place is they are close. I really can’t think of anything else nice to say...sadly.

I started going there 20 years ago when the practice was owned by another very cool vet, who left to do acupuncture on arthritic pets. She was very holistic and told me I didn’t have to bother with all the shots the vets push since my cat didn’t go outside and wasn’t around other animals. I really loved her, then a new person came in to buy the practice and things changed big time.

I stayed away a couple years only because I didn’t want the shot lecture. Last time Alby got shots, he went into anaphylactic shock. It was very scary and I was just furious they kept pushing this constantly after he had such a reaction. Even when Asher was sick and we took him in January, the first thing they said is he needs these shots. I said lets figure out what’s wrong with him first. And that is what probably pissed off both vets to start out this time. Ever since then all I have gotten is mean and condescending.

So I know I’d like to leave, I just want what is best for my cats, and I don’t know how they will be with driving to my Mom’s vet. There are other vets maybe 10 miles from here too, but I’d have to start from scratch there. I just don’t know. Stressed and beat, now is not the time to decide.

Oh and btw, we were a little low tonight on the ps, but only went down to 1.8 units. So I’ll be testing at +4 at least. So off to bed for me. You are all angels xoxoxoxoxoxoxo
 
I Know I am late, but feel compelled to add my 2 cents. I think your vet is outrageous! Any vet should be delighted to work with someone as dedicated as you are to Asher's well being. And to treat you punitively (withholding insulin) simply takes my breathe away. Talk about unprofessional! On the other hand I stayed with a vet who told me testing was unnecessary because the practice was 2 minutes from my house. I just didn't tell the vet much about what I was doing. If I had been able to find someone who was really good, I might have switched, but I was unable to find anyone.

So whatever you decide, keep in mind that this vet has a problem and her evaluation of you is simply absurd. Be glad she is not a family member(Robin had a daughter-in-law who was a miserable vet and very critical of her).
 
Hi (((Donna))), I know exactly how torn you feel.

My DIL was my vet, at dx she handed me a bottle of insulin and a box of syringes and said to come back in 3 weeks, pretty typical from what I've heard here. I found this site 2 days later and started the steep learning curve of newbie school, just like everyone else here. When she found out she fordabe me from home testing, she was actually shreeking when she found out I had lowered his dose, she said that I was going to cause scar tissue in his ears and run out of places to test him so I came here and posted in Health to find out if that was true and one member responded "You have a diabetic cat that hypo'd last weekend and she's worried about scar tissue?". That one response convinced me that this site was where we belonged and changing vets was out of the question without starting WW3 so we just stopped talking about it and I was completely on my own with the help from this site ever since. BTW, her clinic is only 5 blocks away.

When I heard about another Vet who was very knowledgable in diabetes I was tempted but he was 40 minutes away and on the other side of the river. Eventually I called him and asked all kinds of questions and got all the right answers so I made an appt. Harley skreemed the entire ride over there the first couple of times but now he just seems to have gotten used to it just like he got used to getting his ears poked.

It was the best decision I have ever made even with the longer commute. If your vet treats you badly she will treat Asher badly. How can you trust her with Asher's life under anastesia if you don't trust her judgement with the easy things?

Hang in there.
Robin
 
Hi Donna, I am sorry your vet treated you so shabbily. You go above and beyond trying to do everything you can to help Asher and keep him healthy.
I just don't think I would ever trust this vet again. IMO, any vet that would refuse selling you a bottle of insulin when they are well aware your cat is diabetic is just being petty and spiteful. Besides, how does she not know that you dropped your insulin vial and broke it or it had gone bad? Then what? Would she expect Asher to go without?
I would be afraid she would take it out on Asher and not take as good care of him as he deserved while he was there because she has a beef with you. Very unprofessional.
I feel blessed to have a good vet. We are from a small town and have been with her for years with many different pets. She values my input and treats me as a equal in the care of my cats.
I know you would be nervous about going to someone new you don't know anything about and may have to use this vet until you can collect more information about others near you but I would just try not to discuss his diabetes treatment, food, dosages, spreadsheet, etc. unless she asks, just get the insulin and proceed as you have been. Your'e doing a great job in a short length of time with Asher, don't let her make you doubt yourself or his treatment.
 
You guys are all the best. I truly appreciate all your kind comments. As of now, after a long discussion over some dinner tonight, we’re pretty sure we are gonna change vets, it’s just a question of when.

I wanted to post numbers tonight and chat more with everyone but I am really spent from a crazy and emotional week on many levels.

Our numbers are normal, or as normal as Asher has been. Mid 200s ps’s etc. 'Cept for a weird low number last night which I’ll explain later. All is well tho. He’s a happy dude and that’s what counts.

We’re on two units for now but thinking we have to try to up the dose a tad to get his numbers better.
We just stayed the course these last two days due to work and mean vet stress.

Must sleep. I’ll be back here asap. Prob tomorrow :)
 
On the vet thing. Please do not take their opinions personally - in many ways it is not their fault and they are being honest with you even though they may not have the best toolkit to play with. Vets are generally pretty caring people. But they are victims of their training. Like most education they are indoctrinated into the modality of that institution and time & offered false confidence in exchange for their money and effort. Mix that head-mussing with human nature and you end up with cat(2)_steam . Many people just don't understand that they are not supposed to buy blindly into everything they are taught [and/or pay money for].

Joanna mentioned the specialist thing, and I'd just like to say that from my experience [as related to DM] the specialists will likely know more but will likely still be off the mark in many important ways. So I just wanted to temper any potential expectations about specialists.

I was lucky, H was "easy" to regulate and thus, even though my vets disagreed I got a pass.
A sports analogy:
Having a "bad" vet is kind of like having a bad coach. The players can mutiny only until they start losing. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. You just have to be realistic about the rolls people play.

The last part of the puzzle is your sanity. Mom's got to have her head about her to take care of kitty. So all things being equal, if driving the extra distance can help reduce your in-sanity/anxiety levels then I would really recommend doing some vet shopping. I drove H 5 hours [not just for diabetes] on a number of occasions to get care. It was worth my sanity level to know he would get the best care I could find - or at least that I had solicited the 'best' opinions. Often folks come up with good resources by posting in Community about local vet recommendations.
 
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