Up the juice?

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ReiKitty

ReiKitty

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Hi,

Wink now has been on ProZinc 1 unit since Dec 22nd.

His numbers were all over the board till we we 100% wet food (Wild Calling Turkey) on the first of the year.

Following that we've constantly seeing numbers in 470-490 range and haven't gone over 500 in 4 days.

Last night he tested at 409 and this morning 484. His morning numbers are always higher then his evening numbers. ( I swear I'll get a digital spreadsheet created)

We were planning to up his dose this weekend when I can watch him during the day. Since the numbers dropped a little should I keep him at the 1.0 to see if they keep dropping or go ahead and up his insulin as planned. The vet wanted me to go to 2.0.

Thanks!
 
Are those numbers his preshot numbers? Do you have any mid cycle numbers (5-7 hours after the shot) Those tell you how the insulin is working, how low it is taking him. It's possible that he is dropping low and bouncing back up. Or it is possible that he is high and flat. I wouldn't increase the dose without that data.

A spreadsheet would be a great help. Please let us know if you need help making one.

Is your food on the chart we have? How many carbs? Wet food can be high carb.....
 
I did a curve the weekend he started but haven't since. I was supposed to do one on Sunday but ended up out of town for chunk of the day so I didn't bother since I'd miss the middle of the cycle. The first weekend he did dip down about 150 points about 5 hours in. I have a spreadsheet about 50% done, I just don't have all my numbers and notes with me to finalize it right now while I'm at work. I'll make a point to finish it when I get home.

All values are are preshot.

He's on Wild Calling Turkey (we were on chicken but there's a shortage atm) It's should be a very low carb food. He also gets freeze dried chicken pieces as treats and to satisfy is need to crunch. (Adding up the values on the side of the can is 101%, so it's negative carbs? lol) http://wildcalling.com/products/trotn-tommy/
 
yah, it's like negative percentage in carbs doing the math from the website. Our vet did say the dog food was a little high in fat, so the cat food could be too.

I'm looking into mixing it up with some of the fancy feast foods for him too. But right now he still has some weight he needs to put back on him.
 
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That helps. I hope you can get a nadir this weekend. The curve on the 27th didn't look like he was dropping nearly enough, but he was on dry then?

I think, if he were mine, I would up the dose tomorrow morning, anticipating getting some numbers during the day. . What do you think about increasing to 1.5? Are you testing for ketones too? When he is running so high, you want to stay on top of those.

Ideally, if 4 cycles or so on 1.5 doesn't being him down, you'd increase to 2. But I'd feel more comfortable if you'd get a nadir before increasing again. Any chance you could get a nighttime number? A quick test when you are up anyway (if you are like me....)
 
He tested high again this morning. The fuzzy jerk is making me into liar.

Yes, he was on dry on the 27th.

He also came to me about 4lb under weight. His last known visit at a vet he weighted a little over 13lbs (over the summer). When I got him to the vet he weighed around 8 and half pounds, he was just fur and bones. In the last two weeks he finally put back on some weight, still under weight but my guess is he's put on at least two pounds. The vet said his ideal weight is probably between 11-13lbs. He has been scarfing food down. He was going through almost 3 cans a day, I was letting him eat as much as he wanted to get the weight back on him. He's self regulated himself down quite a bit and he's eating about a can and two thirds a day now. I'm thinking this weight gain is also effecting his levels.

I decided this morning I would up his dose on Saturday, I just don't like doing big changes on days I have to work. He's all on his own for 8-9 hours and it's very difficult for me to go home at lunch, though I can do it if needed. My syringes only have whole units on them. Do I eyeball the .5 or should I pick up some that mark the .5 point?

Yes we are checking Ketones (well once so far). He's due to get it checked again, but I'm trying to figure out how cause the last time he used to pee so much that I could just find a fresh puddle and get some urine that way. I'm not sure how to get him to pee on a stick now for me. :(

I can get a night time number too. We do insulin around 7am/7pm and I usually go to bed around midnight so I can test right before bed.
 
Oh and I plan to start Methylcobalamin with him this weekend too. He's gotten better in the time I've had him but he definitely has some low grade neuropathy issues. He hesitates to jump and when he walks every once in a while you can tell he's unsteady in his back legs.
 
Oliver would never pee when we were watching. I ended up filling a clean box with aquarium gravel and leaving him in a room with it. He'd have to christen the box. Then I could swoop in a get a sample.

His neuropathy and big appetite may also improve as his numbers go down. Testing before bed would be a great practice and give us lots of info.

If it is possible, I would go ahead and get the U100. It gives you lots more options.
 
He's already improved. Atleast his neuropathy and appetite. He's a different cat then the one that moved in with me. He's been jumping on the couch and he jumps out of his kennel now too. (The kennel is about four feet off the ground) He purrs now and talks a little bit loves to snuggle. Hates the dog... lol doing good. :)
 
I just wanted to update... I did monitoring over the weekend but I didn't get them into the spreadsheet I hope to get them tonight.

We didn't get below 250 at any point. I'll post again tonight when I get the numbers entered.
 
Holy Moly... he was at 385 this morning. That's is lowest AMPS yet!

I did up his dose to 1.5 on Saturday.

I missed his first test Saturday morning cause I over slept my alarm... Any I got some numbers flushed out for everyone. And Sunday afternoon was spent rescuing a dog.... and if stress ups their numbers, his numbers for the last 48 hours are going to be a little stressed as he's not found of dogs.....

He got a high number in the middle of the after noon on Saturday... I'm not sure why, but he could have gotten into something. It was his first full day out in the house. Wink has a kennel in the garage that's he lives in while we got his peeing and diabetes under control, and during the introduction phase to my kitties. Most of the day was spent napping on the couch, but I didn't watch him 100% of the time.
 
That does look better! But it is still high. Maybe give it another 24 hours and then increase to 1.75? Don't know if we have shared this, but being regulated is your first target. We generally consider a cat regulated if they are in the lower 200s at pre shot and double digits at nadir, but not below 50, which is approaching hypo territory. Once you get there, you start fine tuning the dose to nudge him down. A cat is in remission when they range from 40-120 off insulin for two weeks.
 
I don't like increasing his dosage when I'm not home to monitor him. He'd be alone all day long, for about 9 hours, and its very difficult for me to get home to check him during the day.

I think he's getting there, and he's already shown so much improvement! :)

We'll get him regulated eventually!
 
He's getting there! I agree, upping the dose a bit can help bring him down maybe. It's good to be home to monitor when you change doses to keep an eye on things.
 
I'm going to up his dose again this weekend. He didn't go below 300 this week at his PS. I'll do another curve on Saturday too.

This morning he was really high, but last night while he was in the house, my other kitties apparently hid some of their dinner and he got some dry food. Baddddd Wink.
 
So annoyed... my only day to do the curve over the weekend was Saturday and I must of screwed up giving him the shot because his numbers went up, not down! He couldn't have gotten into anything because he was in his kennel all day... and there is no way he could get into anything. I monitored him in the evening to get doses though because I wanted to make sure when I injected him it didn't some how react with the earlier dose or something... The good news is he did finally go below 300....

I kept the 2 unit dose going all weekend and checked on him when I could, or had our roommate check on him. I was out of the house most of Sunday and Monday so I couldn't do blood tests. So I've flushed out some numbers for you... and as soon as I get a 12 hour period at home again I'll redo the curve.

He definitely tests higher in the PM then the morning. Is that typical? Just curious.
 
Sometimes. If they are more active in the daytime or eat more/less, their numbers might be lower during the day. It's one of those Every Cat is Different things. He does seem to go lower at night though (at least the night you got the yellows.) So it also could be he bounces up for the am number. The truth is we are just guessing because there are lots of holes in the data. I know you can't get numbers during the day, so maybe try to collect more numbers at night?

For example, if he is fairly high and flat overnight (which he wasn't the one night) you might consider changing up the dose. Once you have enough data to see what his patterns are, with ProZinc you can shoot an 11/13 schedule, shooting earlier if one pre shot is consistently higher than the other. Or you can shoot a sliding scale, giving more insulin on the higher Pre shot and a little less on the lower ones. But until you are sure he is not dropping low and bouncing to a higher pre shot, you can't really consider those options.

Not much help, sorry. But we are just guessing about what is going on. No way to take him to work for a day and do a curve?
 
I'm running home today during lunch to because he was at 358 and I gave him 2 units so I want to check on him (I'm sure he's fine, but I'm paranoid). And our foster dog got fixed yesterday so he's stuck in his kennel too.... Some days I wonder why I foster... :facepalm:

I'll work on getting night time numbers.

I wish I could take him to work too, he'd love it and he'd be great for it, but sadly my coworker, who is in the office next to me is deathly allergic to cats.

And i appreciate your help (and everyone on the board). This is total new territory for me and even though it's slow I've seen so much improvement in Wink already thanks to this website!
 
Fuzzy one eyed jerk tested at 500 at noon, 5+ AMPS.....

Am I not injecting the insulin right? is it possible for his BG to go up 150 points in 5 hours after 2 units of insulin and breakfast? I'm 99% sure I injected it right, I've been kind of paranoid about doing it since Saturday.

On the plus side he decide it was bathroom break time right as I came out to see him so we got a do a ketones test! (negative!)
 
An interesting midcycle number. No chance he got into some contraband? You might describe your shooting technique on the Health forum and see if anyone has suggestions, but unless you are feeling wet fur or see the insulin squirt out on the other side, I wouldn't think you are doing it wrong.

Sometimes, if the curve is inverse ( higher in the middle than at Pre shot) we sometimes think that means the dose is too high. But I would be surprised with Wink. You've increased slowly and he is certainly not ever been in lower ranges. I guess I would just figure it's just one number and could be an aberration. Continue to get data unless you see it repeated?
 
Testing lower in the morning may reflect going lower overnight, which many cats do.
 
Updated sheet.

There was no way he got into any contraband. He has a large kennel (it's a designed for cats) he lives in, mainly so I can keep him out of contraband. (he gets plenty of free roaming time too) Otherwise I'd suspect contraband because he's good about finding it, but there just was no way this time.

The exciting thing is he got his first blue number! 199 last night around +5 PMPS.
 
That's encouraging - much better than that 500 nadir yesterday. Blue is a much prettier color. :cool: I think I would figure we must be headed in a good direction, continue with the 2 units, expecting bounces. Any data you can get, day or night, will be good info to have.
 
Whelp the only consistent thing is his inconsistency....

I need to go buy food for him so I might switch him over to the Fancy Feast, maybe the food I'm feeding has higher carbs then I thought.
 
Sorry... I got busy... I need to update my spreadsheet but numbers are sort of looking better.

I found out you can't leave the strips in the cold...... which is where they were. So I'm thinking that explains some of my odd numbers.

We hit a 188 last night 4 hours after pm shot though! Getting closer!
 
He is an interesting boy. Just when you think he may be trending lower, you get an ugly black again Can you get a few mid cycle numbers this weekend to see what might be going on?
 
Im sorry I haven't been on recently... ive been doing tests and getting numbers through the day. But the last week ive been seeming lots of low 200s at shot time so I've dropped the insulin when that happens.

This morning we test 156 an hour later then normal and before breakfest! I passed on giving him insulin and just breakfest. I expect tonight will be a high number but im so excited to see something in a slightly normal range!
 
Great to hear that the numbers are going down! When you have a sec, can you update your SS? I'd love to take a look to see how things are. :D
 
ProZinc tends to nadir around +5 to +7.

Your spreadsheet does not appear to be up to date. OR, the dates are incorrect. It is impossible to make a recommendation without current data and attempts to do so could harm your cat.
 
Yah. I need to update it badly. Its out of date. Last night he tested 490 got 3 units. This morning 110. No insulin this morning I will be testing in an hour after breakfest. I will update the spreadsheet today. I have to see if I can do it on my phone.....
 
Its update it's about 90% accurate. I did it off a mix of memory, the meter, and some things I wrote done. And I didn't release how long it been since I got some midday results. I'm going to try to do a curve all day. I also got cleared to take him today to our adoption event that I volunteer at most of the afternoon. If he keeps going down he'll be going with me and some syrup and carb food to check him regularly. I rather he have some stress then crash when I'm not home. And thankfully he's pretty laid back about everything and being at PetSmart for four hours won't stress him to much, like it does some of our other cats.

His numbers hadn't shown any real improvement till this week, and now he's showing some low numbers. And it's messing me... why can't they do it when life is calm and easy to handle.

This 75 he just tested is first two digit number. He is active and talkative, still wants to eat.
 
Did he get insulin this morning?

You want a dose that can be given every 12 hours; I would not increase because you have been skipping.
 
No. 110 was the lowest ever. I thought it be best not to give it to him otherwise id only give a very very small dose
 
In order to have a shootable morning dose, cut back on the evening dose.
 
Ill do two units tonight. He was 110, 75, 100, 289 this morning so far. If stress causes high numbers he was last tested right out of the carrier.... but this way I can test all day.

He's napping now, he was loving all the attention he was getting. Its good practice for him too since once he's stable he'll be going to adoption events regularly anyways.
 
Gah. I screwed up. My last three vials of test strips were one code. This new set was a different code and I didn't think to check it when I opened it this morning. Im not sure how it effects the results... :( I re adjusted by reader and we'll see how it goes.
 
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